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Kingwood flooding doesn't pass the smell test

77,503 Views | 567 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by notheranymore
Bag
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5:15p, 8/30/17
AG
First off, I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am not prone to hyperbole and I am usually pretty level headed. The catastrophic event that just took place in Kingwood simply doesn't add up. What we just witnessed was a collosal failure to communicate between two counties.


The lake Conroe damn is in Montgomery county and Kingwood obviously is in Harris. Most of the people in Kingwood do not have flood insurance and sooner or later are going to start asking some questions.

There was little to no warning, relative to Addicks and Barker reservoir from the county or the news. It was criminal negligence on a biblical scale.

FOIA requests will ultimately unravel this travesty.

Hate away...
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Ferris Wheel Allstar
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5:16p, 8/30/17
AG
As someone who lived the 1994 flood, this does pass the smell test.
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vansprinkle
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5:25p, 8/30/17
AG
I was wondering about this myself. Lake Houston doesn't hold much water, but you'd think the dam would have been wide ass open to get water out asap. There isn't much down river, so let it flow.
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LostInLA07
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5:31p, 8/30/17
AG
I don't think the county operates the lake Conroe dam or regulates the amount of water released from it. My understanding is that would be the San Jacinto River Authority.
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The Wonderer
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5:34p, 8/30/17
AG
You mean Conroe getting 18 inches and the lake level rising 4.5 feet in just 72 hours causing the need to release water doesn't pass a smell test? What world do you live on? Conroe isn't there to protect the San Jac. The San Jac is subservient to Conroe when needed.
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aggiebq03+
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6:01p, 8/30/17
From what I'd read only about 1/3 of the water coming into the West Fork San Jacinto was coming from Lake Conroe. That part of the San Jacinto is where most of the water from the North and Northwest side of Houston drains. Basically anything North of BW 8 drains into the North part of Lake Houston. That's why Kingwood flooded.



I'll also add that 59 was flooded over the freeway near Cleveland from the East Fork San Jacinto.
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Finn Maccumhail
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In reply to Bag • 6:34p, 8/30/17
AG
Bag said:
First off, I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am not prone to hyperbole and I am usually pretty level headed. The catastrophic event that just took place in Kingwood simply doesn't add up. What we just witnessed was a collosal failure to communicate between two counties.


The lake Conroe damn is in Montgomery county and Kingwood obviously is in Harris. Most of the people in Kingwood do not have flood insurance and sooner or later are going to start asking some questions.

There was little to no warning, relative to Addicks and Barker reservoir from the county or the news. It was criminal negligence on a biblical scale.

FOIA requests will ultimately unravel this travesty.

Hate away...

Actually, I'd bet a significant portion of those in Kingwood do have flood insurance. Especially after the huge floods the last couple years.

There's nothing sinister about it. Just an immense amount of rain, a large watershed, and only one real outlet.
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Waltonloads08
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In reply to Bag • 8:37p, 8/30/17
AG
OK, I'll ask.

What was the motive? The COH just really regrets annexing them against their will two decades ago and just wants to piss them off more?

Who wins in this scenario? The powerful mold remediation lobby? Mexican day laborers?
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Very Tolerant Nice Guy
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8:40p, 8/30/17
I'm a Houstonian and I have no idea what this is about, can someone explain?
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The Wonderer
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In reply to Very Tolerant Nice Guy • 8:44p, 8/30/17
AG
Very Tolerant Nice Guy said:
I'm a Houstonian and I have no idea what this is about, can someone explain?
OP thinks there was a plot afoot to wipe Kingwood off the map with Conroe's discharge into the W. San Jac.
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aggiebq03+
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8:56p, 8/30/17
Peak outflow from Lake Conroe was 79,000 cf/s.
Peak inflow to Lake Conroe was 130,000 cf/s.

This means having a dam at that part of the West Fork San Jacinto prevented an additional 51,000 cf/s from flooding Kingwood.
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Bondag
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9:09p, 8/30/17
AG
As someone that cleaned up after 94 there are a lot more conspiracies for that event than there are for this one.

It has been a long time, but I remember them opening the dam, but not closing it when they had released enough water so they flooded a number of homes that could have been spared with actual control of the release.
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pdawg10384
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9:22p, 8/30/17
AG
You do realize that both Spring Creek and Cypress Creek flow into the San Jacinto River right? Nearly all of the Kingwood flooding was caused from these two creeks. 45 was flooded at both of the creeks, but not where the San Jac crosses 45. Look at a map.
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W
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9:37p, 8/30/17
AG
don't forget about Caney Creek --- 28 inches of rain --- flowed down into Lake Houston
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Bag
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In reply to The Wonderer • 9:50p, 8/30/17
AG
Not a plot, just criminal negligence. A fundamental lack of communication between the two counties.

Did you know that they drained lake Houston before hand? I am very interested to know what prep lake Conroe did. The prerelease should have coordinated.

Zero warning
No evacuation orders
No mention of lake Conroe or Kingwood on the news
The mayor or our county judge never mentioned the danger in Kingwood even though the ******* national guard, Tenn Ohio, Alabama national guard were all setting up in the back of Kingwood, again, no warning, none.

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The Wonderer
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In reply to Bag • 9:54p, 8/30/17
AG
Bag said:
Not a plot, just criminal negligence. A fundamental lack of communication between the two counties.

Did you know that they drained lake Houston before hand? I am very interested to know what prep lake Conroe did. The prerelease should have coordinated.

Zero warning
No evacuation orders
No mention of lake Conroe or Kingwood on the news
The mayor or our county judge never mentioned the danger in Kingwood even though the ******* national guard, Tenn Ohio, Alabama national guard were all setting up in the back of Kingwood, again, no warning, none.

Well, seeing as the state has sovereign immunity, it doesn't matter anyway.
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Bag
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In reply to Ferris Wheel Allstar • 9:54p, 8/30/17
AG
I, too, lived through 94. I have been in kingwood since 86, and 94 was another example of monumental failure to communicate between two counties.

History has a way of repeating itself.
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Bag
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In reply to The Wonderer • 9:57p, 8/30/17
AG
Just looking for answers and for people to be held accountable.

It ludicrous to believe that politics, money and incompetence didn't play a role in this.
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Finn Maccumhail
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In reply to Bag • 10:02p, 8/30/17
AG
Bag said:
Not a plot, just criminal negligence. A fundamental lack of communication between the two counties.

Did you know that they drained lake Houston before hand? I am very interested to know what prep lake Conroe did. The prerelease should have coordinated.

Zero warning
No evacuation orders
No mention of lake Conroe or Kingwood on the news
The mayor or our county judge never mentioned the danger in Kingwood even though the ******* national guard, Tenn Ohio, Alabama national guard were all setting up in the back of Kingwood, again, no warning, none.


Pretty sure Lake Houston doesn't have any functional gates. I've been told it's 100% spillway and the top of the spillway is at 49' so once the water levels get that high it goes over the top. The issue is that Spring Creek, Cypress Creek, and the San Jacinto all stack up in one, relatively narrow, low-lying area.

The Memorial Day Floods in 2015 flooded Kings Harbor and much of the Forest Cove area and that was a drop in the bucket compared to Harvey.
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Bag
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10:05p, 8/30/17
AG
The lake was drained before Harvey, I have pictures to prove it
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The Wonderer
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10:14p, 8/30/17
AG
How? It's an earthen dam, not a gated dam.
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The Wonderer
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10:21p, 8/30/17
AG
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Finn Maccumhail
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In reply to Bag • 10:28p, 8/30/17
AG
Bag said:
The lake was drained before Harvey, I have pictures to prove it

Ok. Make with the goods then.
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AgRebel08
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11:10p, 8/30/17
AG
Not sure what hole you were in, I called several friends in Kingwood at the start of the flooding telling them that this was going to happen, they mentioned it on the news.

Doubt anyone expected that much rain all over to actually happen.
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Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno
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In reply to Bag • 11:14p, 8/30/17
AG
Bag said:
First off, I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am not prone to hyperbole and I am usually pretty level headed. The catastrophic event that just took place in Kingwood simply doesn't add up. What we just witnessed was a collosal failure to communicate between two counties.


The lake Conroe damn is in Montgomery county and Kingwood obviously is in Harris. Most of the people in Kingwood do not have flood insurance and sooner or later are going to start asking some questions.

There was little to no warning, relative to Addicks and Barker reservoir from the county or the news. It was criminal negligence on a biblical scale.

FOIA requests will ultimately unravel this travesty.

Hate away...
my neighborhood got zero warning that we would flood from the release of these dams. The only thing they said was we will release addicks at 2am and barker the next day around noon and it shouldn't raise buffalo bayou levels. Well they released both at midnight before the stated release time and mentioned or alerted none down stream of the 4 feet of water flooding my neighborhood during the middle of the night forcing every neighbor and friend i have to try and save their families in the middle of the night and early morning. ZERO warning, they only mentioned water back into cinco and nothing for fleetwood (my neighborhood which is closest to the dam and anything down memorial)
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Bag
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11:19p, 8/30/17
AG
"The top of the dam is at elevation of 60.23 feet above mean sea level. Maximum design water surface is 54.23 feet above mean sea level. Water release is controlled by 2 tainter gates (each 18 by 20.5 feet) located between the earthfill section and the spillway section. Elevation of tainter gate sill 25.23 feet above mean sea level, while the top of the gate is at elevation of 45.73 feet above mean sea level. "

Honestly, I don't know the answer to this and that is the reason I posted it. Does the quote above not state that lake Houston does in fact have gates that the bottom elevation would be 25 ft?

Sorry I am not an engineer
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Bag
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11:24p, 8/30/17
AG
Regarding the pictures, I do have the photos they are just a little hard to access, as you might imagine, in a place that struggling to just stay on the grid
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Ferris Wheel Allstar
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11:25p, 8/30/17
AG
A simple google search found your answer. Conspiracy? No. Looks like a combination of one if not the most catastrophic flooding event in the USA and bad decisions led to the dam to be so full.

http://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/SJRA-No-water-pre-release-from-Lake-Conroe-11956870.php
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Bag
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In reply to AgRebel08 • 11:29p, 8/30/17
AG
I watched every press conference with the Harris county flood control district, never heard a peep.
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aggiebq03+
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In reply to Bag • 11:35p, 8/30/17
Just figured you missed it.
But you are aware more water flowed into Lake Conroe than out of it, right?
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Bag
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In reply to Ferris Wheel Allstar • 11:38p, 8/30/17
AG
Absolutely genius!!!

Thanks you for finding that link. That is exactly my ****ing point. No prerelease for lake Conroe before hand. NO RELEASE PRIOR TO WHAT THE WEATHER CHANNEL WAS ALREADY CALLING AN UNPRECEDENTED NATURAL DISASTER BEFORE IT EVEN TOOK PLACE.

So the next question you need to ask yourself if why?? Why no release?? Well, gee, it may have something to do with that one moneymaker Montgomery county has, lake Conroe.

The fact is a lake Conroe with low water level is a lake that no one wants to go to, it's all about the almighty dollar. Sickening.
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aggiebq03+
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In reply to Bag • 11:42p, 8/30/17
Bag said:
The lake was drained before Harvey, I have pictures to prove it

Looking at the web site, they may have drained about 0.5 ft out of Lake Houston. Under "Additional Information" click on last 30 days to download info.

https://waterdatafortexas.org/reservoirs/individual/houston
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Bag
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In reply to Waltonloads08 • 11:50p, 8/30/17
AG
It's a mix of motive and negligence. The motive was not to flood Kingwood, noone is arguing that. The motive was to not drain lake Conroe, that huge money maker for the county. Let's be honest, a lake Conroe with low water doesn't make the million dollar home owners on the lake happy, nor is it good for tourist business.

Another thing to be honest about, Montgomery county doesn't give two ****s about Harris county, in fact it is most likely the opposite. Someone has already posted that the lower San jac is not lake conroes problem.


The negligence comes in when someone in Montgomery county says oh **** we have a problem and then puts the flood gates at 11 with very little notice and consequences be damned.
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aggiebq03+
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In reply to Bag • 11:53p, 8/30/17
Bag said:
Absolutely genius!!!

Thanks you for finding that link. That is exactly my ****ing point. No prerelease for lake Conroe before hand. NO RELEASE PRIOR TO WHAT THE WEATHER CHANNEL WAS ALREADY CALLING AN UNPRECEDENTED NATURAL DISASTER BEFORE IT EVEN TOOK PLACE.

So the next question you need to ask yourself if why?? Why no release?? Well, gee, it may have something to do with that one moneymaker Montgomery county has, lake Conroe.

The fact is a lake Conroe with low water level is a lake that no one wants to go to, it's all about the almighty dollar. Sickening.

Are you sure you read the article?

Quote:
To pre-release water at a reasonably safe rate (so that it doesn't cause flooding downstream), it would take weeks to accomplish enough drop in lake level to have any hope of buffering a major storm event.

If we did try to pre-release in advance of a storm, we would be artificially filling the river downstream and adding water to Lake Houston. If the heavy rains fell in other watersheds (which is highly likely given the relatively small size of our watershed), then we would have pre-filled the west fork of the river and Lake Houston, which could exacerbate downstream flooding problems.
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Bag
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11:55p, 8/30/17
AG
https://www.google.com/amp/www.yourconroenews.com/east-montgomery/news/amp/San-Jacinto-Rivera-Authority-reverses-course-12003233.php


Exhibit A, criminal negligence.

Read it quick because that article will be gone with in days.

"If we pre-released and ended up not receiving significant rainfall in our watershed, then we would have drained critical supplies of stored water from Lake Conroe."
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