Because between when the forecast was made and when the river crested, another foot+ of rain had fallen. Also, Cypress Creek and Spring Creek went to over their record heights which they didn't do in 1994. Also, as I have said earlier, the additional Lake Conroe releases were double what they were in 1994 but they were still a small portion of the flow. In fact, the additional flow from Lake Conroe at the stage the river was at, probably did not add to terribly much height because of how channel flow works. Maybe just a foot. If you really want to blame someone, blame Spring and Cypress for sending a bunch of flow your way.
Kingwood flooding doesn't pass the smell test
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Last: 5 yr ago by notheranymore
And that's the rub of both the Kingwood and Addicks / Barker claims.FHKChE07 said:
Because between when the forecast was made and when the river crested, another foot+ of rain had fallen. Also, Cypress Creek and Spring Creek went to over their record heights which they didn't do in 1994. Also, as I have said earlier, the additional Lake Conroe releases were double what they were in 1994 but they were still a small portion of the flow. In fact, the additional flow from Lake Conroe at the stage the river was at, probably did not add to terribly much height because of how channel flow works. Maybe just a foot. If you really want to blame someone, blame Spring and Cypress for sending a bunch of flow your way.
Folks in these neighborhoods want to point to these reservoirs and releases as causes of their problem, but had the rain been less and they not flooded, they would have had no issues enjoying the protection of the man-made flood control devices...including the necessary effect of those flooding downstream.
But that's ok. A passive movement of water from point A to point B that floods point B and protects point A is fair game, I guess.
There's also an uncomfortably classist element to it. I heard someone explicitly say "well, there's going to be problems -- those neighborhoods they flooded have a lot of money". What they didn't say is "unlike the poors who flood as a matter of fact every time it rains".
Ding Ding Ding!
It's kind of funny you assume I am a woman. If you are doing it intentionally I hope it makes you feel better, but I'm a man.
Here is a little understanding from where my username comes:
I don't think I have actually name called anyone nor compared you to a criminal or grifter. I think I made my case clear in a previous post and then a very good friend of mine really took offense to what you said earlier. Additionally, I've actually made sure to reply directly to your posts so you hopefully notice them more, unlike when you referred to me as having character of a criminal.
What about kingwood being a bubble is derogatory? What I was getting out was it seemed like at that time in the thread you had your head in the sand on where all the water was coming from. Anyway there are bubbles all over this city. The Woodlands, Clear Lake, Alief (a hood bubble if you will), etc. ****, I live in a bubble area (not a master planned one mind you). It isn't bad or wrong, but the point I was making was that you have to pay attention to what is around you. It seems like you now understand a lot more of the intricacies that applied to Kingwood flooding. As I said earlier, you can't blame someone for a .1% act of nature.
So no thin skin here, but I think you should consider looking in the mirror.
Here is a little understanding from where my username comes:
I don't think I have actually name called anyone nor compared you to a criminal or grifter. I think I made my case clear in a previous post and then a very good friend of mine really took offense to what you said earlier. Additionally, I've actually made sure to reply directly to your posts so you hopefully notice them more, unlike when you referred to me as having character of a criminal.
What about kingwood being a bubble is derogatory? What I was getting out was it seemed like at that time in the thread you had your head in the sand on where all the water was coming from. Anyway there are bubbles all over this city. The Woodlands, Clear Lake, Alief (a hood bubble if you will), etc. ****, I live in a bubble area (not a master planned one mind you). It isn't bad or wrong, but the point I was making was that you have to pay attention to what is around you. It seems like you now understand a lot more of the intricacies that applied to Kingwood flooding. As I said earlier, you can't blame someone for a .1% act of nature.
So no thin skin here, but I think you should consider looking in the mirror.
I think it's time to remove the veil off of this whole operation. We're all grifters and criminals out to take advantage of the fine folks in Kingwood. It was only a matter of time before they got wise to our scheme.
Never change Kingwood.
Its amazing how many Atascocita residents that flooded back in 1994 and again this time and we all grumble "F conroe" but nobody actually things there is a conspiracy or negligence.
Cypress Creek, Spring Creek, were both at historic levels and we got 50" of rain in a 30 hour period. **** floods. I flooded. Move on.
Its amazing how many Atascocita residents that flooded back in 1994 and again this time and we all grumble "F conroe" but nobody actually things there is a conspiracy or negligence.
Cypress Creek, Spring Creek, were both at historic levels and we got 50" of rain in a 30 hour period. **** floods. I flooded. Move on.
It officially crested at 111.45', 0.15' below the 1994 record.dlance said:FHKChE07 said:
Because between when the forecast was made and when the river crested, another foot+ of rain had fallen. Also, Cypress Creek and Spring Creek went to over their record heights which they didn't do in 1994. Also, as I have said earlier, the additional Lake Conroe releases were double what they were in 1994 but they were still a small portion of the flow. In fact, the additional flow from Lake Conroe at the stage the river was at, probably did not add to terribly much height because of how channel flow works. Maybe just a foot. If you really want to blame someone, blame Spring and Cypress for sending a bunch of flow your way.
Just for historical accuracy, 1994 was the record crest for Spring Creek at 111.6'. I think we went just over that at 111.7 this time. Forecast was 112.5 but it never got there.
That's called plagerism.... Anyone in academia will attest that practice constitutes plagerism. Self plagerism...
Anyone know what the official height was for 59/San Jacinto? The 94 record was 67.3 and this went up to the 69 foot level but that can't be accurate. I know people that didn't get any water that now got 4+ feet.
Crazy it tore the rail road bridge apart and is having to be completely reworked. Glad the old metal bridge held up.
I was watching the predications as well. You could tell that the forecast was crap because the trend line for the actual was completely different than the forecast. It did give a crappy sense of what was to happen because there were people that saw it was going to hit 62 or 65 feet and they knew they didn't flood in 94 at 67 feet.
My folks flooded in Fosters Mill but we had at least a 24 hour sense that it was going to flood. By the time water came in the house we had moved both cars and everything on the first floor to the second. I've got no doubts that water came up fast but we kept watching the levels and how fast it was coming up.
Crazy it tore the rail road bridge apart and is having to be completely reworked. Glad the old metal bridge held up.
I was watching the predications as well. You could tell that the forecast was crap because the trend line for the actual was completely different than the forecast. It did give a crappy sense of what was to happen because there were people that saw it was going to hit 62 or 65 feet and they knew they didn't flood in 94 at 67 feet.
My folks flooded in Fosters Mill but we had at least a 24 hour sense that it was going to flood. By the time water came in the house we had moved both cars and everything on the first floor to the second. I've got no doubts that water came up fast but we kept watching the levels and how fast it was coming up.
BCOBQ98 said:
Anyone know what the official height was for 59/San Jacinto? The 94 record was 67.3 and this went up to the 69 foot level but that can't be accurate. I know people that didn't get any water that now got 4+ feet.
Crazy it tore the rail road bridge apart and is having to be completely reworked. Glad the old metal bridge held up.
I was watching the predications as well. You could tell that the forecast was crap because the trend line for the actual was completely different than the forecast. It did give a crappy sense of what was to happen because there were people that saw it was going to hit 62 or 65 feet and they knew they didn't flood in 94 at 67 feet.
My folks flooded in Fosters Mill but we had at least a 24 hour sense that it was going to flood. By the time water came in the house we had moved both cars and everything on the first floor to the second. I've got no doubts that water came up fast but we kept watching the levels and how fast it was coming up.
1' of river does not equal 1' in house. If the river crests at 68' and your house is at 64' that is 4' of water.
Also, all folks should try and keep this thread civil. If someone is wrong you can disagree without being a jerk.
My only gripe is the poor forecasting and the poor communication. I don't think that anyone at Conroe did anything wrong or could have done much different. When I heard they were opening up Conroe I knew from 94 it was going to be bad but those that are new to the area probably didn't realize how bad it could get.
My only gripe is the poor forecasting and the poor communication. I don't think that anyone at Conroe did anything wrong or could have done much different. When I heard they were opening up Conroe I knew from 94 it was going to be bad but those that are new to the area probably didn't realize how bad it could get.
Well, I haven't fully looked into it, but in '94 and Harvey, the flow from West Fork at 45 was the same at 115,000 cfs, so Spring Creek and Cypress Creek must have been pushing more flow than '94. Or at least been pushing max flow all at the same time.
Refs:
http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/article/Flood-of-1994-History-could-repeat-itself-9737148.php
http://thegoldenhammer.net/the-flooding-catastrophe-from-tropical-storm-harvey-was-largely-man-made/
Refs:
http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/article/Flood-of-1994-History-could-repeat-itself-9737148.php
http://thegoldenhammer.net/the-flooding-catastrophe-from-tropical-storm-harvey-was-largely-man-made/
https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-073-94/pdf/FS-94-073.pdf
So looks like the maximum in 94 was:
115,000 on the West Fork near Conroe
78,000 on Spring Creek near Spring
11,300 on Cypress Creek near Westfield.
Total of 204,300.
And in Harvey it was:
115,000 on the West Fork near Conroe
82,400 on Spring Creek near Spring
24,100 on Cypress Creek near Westfield.
Total of 221,500.
Also, much more rain I think was picked up between Conroe and Porter on the West Fork that caused more flow because the West Fork was flowing at 130,000 by Porter. I don't have data for the 94 flood on that.
Furthermore, the flow coming from Conroe at 45 was the same as it was in '94. It was the other rain downstream of Lake Conroe that brought in all the additional flow that caused the flooding in Kingwood. We just kept getting extreme amounts of rain which made everything all worse.
Maybe I should just send a link to this thread to the SJRA people so they can use it as defense since we have done all of their research for them.
Also, since we were discussing credentials, I have none in the water management world, I'm just a bored chemical engineer that understands fluid mechanics and how things work. Especially, since I was stuck at home with not much to do but look at flood models.
Also, peak rate down stream of Lake houston in '94 was 360,000. In Harvey, it was 400,000+
So looks like the maximum in 94 was:
115,000 on the West Fork near Conroe
78,000 on Spring Creek near Spring
11,300 on Cypress Creek near Westfield.
Total of 204,300.
And in Harvey it was:
115,000 on the West Fork near Conroe
82,400 on Spring Creek near Spring
24,100 on Cypress Creek near Westfield.
Total of 221,500.
Also, much more rain I think was picked up between Conroe and Porter on the West Fork that caused more flow because the West Fork was flowing at 130,000 by Porter. I don't have data for the 94 flood on that.
Furthermore, the flow coming from Conroe at 45 was the same as it was in '94. It was the other rain downstream of Lake Conroe that brought in all the additional flow that caused the flooding in Kingwood. We just kept getting extreme amounts of rain which made everything all worse.
Maybe I should just send a link to this thread to the SJRA people so they can use it as defense since we have done all of their research for them.
Also, since we were discussing credentials, I have none in the water management world, I'm just a bored chemical engineer that understands fluid mechanics and how things work. Especially, since I was stuck at home with not much to do but look at flood models.
Also, peak rate down stream of Lake houston in '94 was 360,000. In Harvey, it was 400,000+
The Golden Hammer - really looks like a quality periodical.
From their "About Us" page:
Meet the Team
Eric Yollick
Founder & Publisher
Eric Yollick is a private citizen. He was born in a private hospital in Dallas. He attended private schools (except for first, second, and part of third grade when he erred). At the age of 6, he became a taxpayer and has continued to pay a lot of taxes ever since that time, because local, state, and federal governments never relented, even around the holidays. He's voted in every election and come to realize that people who run for public office often lie and make false promises. Yollick has not and does not accept funds or services from the government. He's embarrassed when he enters air-conditioned or heated government buildings and utilizes some of the government-treated air within them. Yollick works for a living so that he can pay taxes to all of the governments that take taxes. He and his wife live in an unincorporated area of Montgomery County, Texas, one of the most out-of-control county governments with respect to spending-and-taxing in America. He has read John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, and Robert Nozick, and actually believes what they wrote.
From their "About Us" page:
Meet the Team
Eric Yollick
Founder & Publisher
Eric Yollick is a private citizen. He was born in a private hospital in Dallas. He attended private schools (except for first, second, and part of third grade when he erred). At the age of 6, he became a taxpayer and has continued to pay a lot of taxes ever since that time, because local, state, and federal governments never relented, even around the holidays. He's voted in every election and come to realize that people who run for public office often lie and make false promises. Yollick has not and does not accept funds or services from the government. He's embarrassed when he enters air-conditioned or heated government buildings and utilizes some of the government-treated air within them. Yollick works for a living so that he can pay taxes to all of the governments that take taxes. He and his wife live in an unincorporated area of Montgomery County, Texas, one of the most out-of-control county governments with respect to spending-and-taxing in America. He has read John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, and Robert Nozick, and actually believes what they wrote.
Needs to be the Houston forums moderators user name.
To be fair, it was just where I could find that information that came from SJRA.
The Golden Hammer
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You just killed the joke and fun... Ugh.
Impossible.
T&P to Friendswood.
T&P to Friendswood.
meh
Bag said:
Not a plot, just criminal negligence. A fundamental lack of communication between the two counties.
Did you know that they drained lake Houston before hand? I am very interested to know what prep lake Conroe did. The prerelease should have coordinated.
Zero warning
No evacuation orders
No mention of lake Conroe or Kingwood on the news
The mayor or our county judge never mentioned the danger in Kingwood even though the ******* national guard, Tenn Ohio, Alabama national guard were all setting up in the back of Kingwood, again, no warning, none.
They did? I live like 1/8 of a mile from Lake Houston and didn't notice that they'd drained it.
No mention of lake Conroe or Kingwood on the news - the weather guys said over and over and over 15-35 in. of rain. Did they have to mention you specifically or could you deduce that all that water had to go somewhere.
Elsie, the dropped it 6 inches. Not a whole lot.
FHKChE07 said:
Elsie, the dropped it 6 inches. Not a whole lot.
Speak for yourself...for some folks that is all they got!
Did they drop 6", or was that just normal use of everyone in Houston filling up their bath tubs?
Quote:
They did? I live like 1/8 of a mile from Lake Houston and didn't notice that they'd drained it.
He's already been proven wrong on this one.
A regional disaster effecting hundreds of thousands of people, but but...
*how I picture testimony in the civil suit.
*how I picture testimony in the civil suit.
I try to avoid east Texas and the methy-folks out that way, and thus have never been, so can someone explain to me where this inflated sense of self-worth for Kingwood residents comes from?
They think they're better than the people of Cleveland.Ducks4brkfast said:
I try to avoid east Texas and the methy-folks out that way, and thus have never been, so can someone explain to me where this inflated sense of self-worth for Kingwood residents comes from?
As you can see here, Elsie: https://texags.com/forums/38/topics/2877197/replies/49766335
The data showed that some flow came out of Lake Houston leading up to the storm, but the total amount of release was so little that at peak inflows to the lake it replaced that amount in 8 minutes. In the scheme of the flood at large, it was an inconsequential amount of water. And it didn't keep the end peak level of the lake 6" lower, because of the way Lake Houston works, the spillway was pushing tons of water out once in flood. That prerelease probably did not account for much of anything in lowering the cresting height because at the max flooding time, it was pushing out as much as it possibly could.
The data showed that some flow came out of Lake Houston leading up to the storm, but the total amount of release was so little that at peak inflows to the lake it replaced that amount in 8 minutes. In the scheme of the flood at large, it was an inconsequential amount of water. And it didn't keep the end peak level of the lake 6" lower, because of the way Lake Houston works, the spillway was pushing tons of water out once in flood. That prerelease probably did not account for much of anything in lowering the cresting height because at the max flooding time, it was pushing out as much as it possibly could.
It's those river rats down in 'Tascocita that really get their noses turned up.Quote:
They think they're better than the people of Cleveland.
ChiliBeans said:It's those river rats down in 'Tascocita that really get their noses turned up.Quote:
They think they're better than the people of Cleveland.
If Houston was Game of Thrones:
Katy: The Westerlands
Waller: Iron Islands
Memorial/Tanglewood/River Oaks: The Crownlands (Kings Landing)
Oak Forest/Lindale Park: The Vale
Sugarland: Dorne
The Woodlands: The North
Midtown/West U/Downtown: The Stormlands
Energy Corridor: The Reach
Cypress: The Riverlands
East Houston: Essos
Kingwood: The Narrow Sea
Katy: The Westerlands
Waller: Iron Islands
Memorial/Tanglewood/River Oaks: The Crownlands (Kings Landing)
Oak Forest/Lindale Park: The Vale
Sugarland: Dorne
The Woodlands: The North
Midtown/West U/Downtown: The Stormlands
Energy Corridor: The Reach
Cypress: The Riverlands
East Houston: Essos
Kingwood: The Narrow Sea
Ferris Wheel Allstar
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AG
ChiliBeans said:It's those river rats down in 'Tascocita that really get their noses turned up.Quote:
They think they're better than the people of Cleveland.
**** that's funny.
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