I provided several options for him to choose, or he can come up with a different option.
I suppose you just decided to not look at this:aTm2004 said:You keep focusing on only Conroe. Move on beyond that. You admit that LH has primarily a spillway dam, and if the city or region will ultimately have to go elsewhere for water since it looks like LH may not be able to provide future needs, why couldn't they also look at redoing LH dam to incorporate some flood control? Because of the need for drinking water? If they have to go elsewhere in the future for it, why couldn't some flood control be incorporated into their plans/decisions? Stop focusing on one thing and look at the big picture. Yeah, it's going to cost money, but immediately dismissing the idea before somebody does a proper cost/benefit analysis on it is short sighted, IMO.txags92 said:
You keep bringing up this idea of changing the lake use and it has been explained to you what changing that use would involve and what the magnitude of the likely cost would be. What part of it makes you think we should spend billions of dollars and uproot thousands of families and businesses around lake conroe so that we can protect about 1000 homes in Kingwood from the next 800-1000 yr storm?
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In order to make Conroe both a supply reservoir and a flood control lake you'd have to, using the number in a previous reply, raise the height of the dam by 30 or so feet. In doing so, the dam would loop from about Montgomery to Willis (rough guess) and the area of innundation would roughly encompass a shape from the existing dam to Huntsville to College Station to Navasota and back to Montgomery. And, quite honestly, that is probably not nearly enough area.
So to save the ~1000 homes in Kingwood that were damaged to the flood, you'd make an area that is about 537,000 acres uninhabitable. No clue on the number of houses, property value or population in that area - but it's significantly more than that of the roughly 1000 homes in Kingwood.
To do the same to LH would probably be easily 3x the surface area, or about 1.5 Million acres that would not be suitable for habitation due to being in the innundation zone for the flood control portion of the reservoir and the area would include everything from Dayton to Cleveland to Conroe to Spring and back to the lake. So you'd displace ALL of Kingwood, plus about, what, 2 or so million people, to protect your roughly 1000 houses that would be 100% in the flood zone anyway.
At some point you need to take responsibility as an adult to know what the area around you can do in various conditions, plan ahead, and know where to find the information instead of complaining that you didn't think there was enough alerts alarms and door knocking from people telling you bad things are going to happen. Data is out there, you literally have the entire world at your fingertips via the phone in your hand - the news simply cannot advise each and every person in each and every area of a metroplex with about 7mm or so people in it that is getting hammered across the entirety of the metropolitan area what each and every potential disaster may be.
Could communication be better? Hell, it always can, but given the entirety of the situation and what has been explained to you on this thread, combined with the fact that it wasn't bad to begin with, I'm just not seeing where you can legitimately claim you weren't adequately informed. That's just me though.
So when other folks state that you just don't seem to grasp the concepts of things discussed on this thread, the above two items are a prime example why (along with deciding to go toy shopping at a very inopportune time). And missing the multiple broadcasts discussing the entire area being flooded, and missing the specific broadcasts talking about releases from Lake Conroe, and just not grasping the basic fact that there was very little that could have been done more than what was done.Quote:
Luce Bayou is a water supply project to keep LH at a minimum level when the NEWTP project is finalized and that plant starts pulling an obscene amount of water out of LH to deliver to western Harris County, Montgomery County and I think some may go into Ft. Bend County (not sure about Ft. Bend). The NEWTP project is a $1.5+ Billion upgrade to the existing plant, and that cost doesn't include the roughly additional billion they are going to spend on the distribution pipelines and booster pump stations. Huge expenditure for COH,which is a main reason most of their other water infrastructure projects are either on hold or flat out not going to be done anytime in the next 5 years.
Luce won't have that much affect on the Trinity, at least that was what I was told when I asked those questions. It's a lot of water that will be pulled, but the Trinity is a wide and deep river and the amount of water is, comparatively speaking, not much at all. I think the pump station will initially be a 400mgd station with capacity for future expansion to 800mgd. It's a good sized pump station, still mad we opted to not bid the damn thing.
The problem is that by the time there were weather reports that suggested a significant rainfall for Houston, it was too late to drain Lake Conroe.Quote:
We've been around and around on the pre-release issue, but if the risk of future drought played any role in the severity of this flood, that is inexcusable. There were zero weather reports that suggested a rainfall deficit for Harvey.
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we could see a couple of inches of rainfall or quite a bit more, and if not, it could be drier and hotter (mid-90s).
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High resolution models (which are run frequently) continue to show high rainfall totals tonight and into Sunday morning, with widespread accumulations of 3 to 6 inches, and some locations receiving in excess of 10 inches. On top of the rainfall, we continue to see indications of tornadoes on the radar. As Matt suggested, now would be a good time to make sure you have your mobile device emergency alerts notification set to "On" tonight.
We remain concerned about the potential for flooding in the Houston region tonight, and will do our best to keep you apprised of the situation.
I distinctly remember the news talking about the rain bands merging and just dumping across the entire Houston area all night and them addressing the band slowing down on the East side because I said to my wife, "I'm glad I don't live on the east side of Houston. That is going to be bad."Quote:
Will Band 1 slow down as it moves toward a line from, say, Humble to Seabrook, or along the Gulf Freeway? There are some meteorological reasons to think it might, and this could potentially become a devastating event for the east side of Houston. A nearly stationary line of showers producing 4 inches of rain per hour does not take long to flood structures.
This is what I remember the weathermen all talking about because it had only happened once before in its' existence and we had 3 issued in one night to include the entire Houston area. (And I swear to God, if someone says that Kingwood is not in Houston, I am going to punch them.)Quote:
Another data point that is concerning in the extreme: The Houston-Galveston office of National Weather Service has issued three Flash Flood Emergencies tonight for the Houston region. It had only ever issued one before in the five years or so that the forecast product has existed.
It wasn't even really Sunday yet and everyone was calling this catastrophic. The flooding was already in full force. I was flooded into my house in central Houston, and they were already calling it a historic flooding situation. If at this point in time you weren't already paying attention, I don't know what to tell you.Quote:
- This is an extremely dangerous flooding situation for the Houston metro area
- Stay in your location
- The heavy rains from Harvey are likely to continue into Sunday morning, worsening an already borderline catastrophic situation
So now we are helicopter rescues, but we still don't need to worry. And the guys at space city are still saying:Quote:
public officials advise going onto your roof, and to take white towels so that first responders from the city, county, or US Coast Guard can more easily find you.
By Sunday afternoon:Quote:
The other clear advice is to not drive on roads today, even if conditions appear to be clearing, because we expect more showers and flooding tonight. Even if roads are clear near where you are, they may not be where you are going. (If you absolutely must travel, Google maps, with traffic, offers a rough means of gauging which roads are passable at this time). But, as the mayor said, "The best way to keep from getting stranded is to stay off the street."
Near-record levels of flooding on Cypress Creek. So now we have Cypress Creek at near record levels and Spring creek is covering the beltway.Quote:
North of I-10,it's similar, but with more rain and fewer breaks. Expect occasional 1-3 per hour rain rates in those areas. This will exacerbate already near-record levels of flooding on Cypress Creek and other bodies of water north of Houston.
On average, I would expect 3-7 south and 4-8 north, but there is most certainly a risk of higher amounts in spots. The heavy rains near Port Arthur and Beaumont should add up to 5-10 or more.
He's not the one saying don't go on the roads. That's another '07er. But yeah, unless you lived it, it's easy to Monday morning quarterback it. Some friends of ours got water in their house. They live in a part of Kingwood close to LH, and they kept monitoring the water levels. They said that when their neighborhood began getting water in it, their street went from no water to almost to their house in the matter of about an hour...their house is also elevated from the road as many are. They had to be taken out by boat. They were monitoring it and what they were seeing told them that no other action outside of monitoring needed to take place, and then it was time to get out.94chem said:
Soooo, is FHK saying I should have stayed or evacuated in Kingwood? Because, "don't go on the roads" and "get out" are 2 different things. Right?
It's not that the flooding was happening, but how fast it went from "things look good" to "we're ****ed."FHKChE07 said:
I was saying. The news was saying stay home an watch for weather alerts unless you were in a dangerous situation. Instead, people were out shopping and carrying on. Maybe, if you had been paying attention you would have seen the news that Cypress Creek and Spring Creek were at record levels that would be causing catastrophic flooding in the West Fork of the San Jacinto.
Also, I was addressing that you had "no idea" there was catastrophic flooding going around you by showing all of the examples that there was catastrophic flooding across the entire region instead of as you put it, "only around the Barker and Addicks reservoirs".
Then, you could have made your own educated decisions about whether you needed to evacuate because you were in a dangerous situation ahead of when you say that you found out, Monday afternoon when it was too late. You could have looked at the San Jacinto Forecast map which are updated pretty regularly to see if you were going to flood or if there was concern.
aTm2004 said:It's not that the flooding was happening, but how fast it went from "things look good" to "we're ****ed."FHKChE07 said:
I was saying. The news was saying stay home an watch for weather alerts unless you were in a dangerous situation. Instead, people were out shopping and carrying on. Maybe, if you had been paying attention you would have seen the news that Cypress Creek and Spring Creek were at record levels that would be causing catastrophic flooding in the West Fork of the San Jacinto.
Also, I was addressing that you had "no idea" there was catastrophic flooding going around you by showing all of the examples that there was catastrophic flooding across the entire region instead of as you put it, "only around the Barker and Addicks reservoirs".
Then, you could have made your own educated decisions about whether you needed to evacuate because you were in a dangerous situation ahead of when you say that you found out, Monday afternoon when it was too late. You could have looked at the San Jacinto Forecast map which are updated pretty regularly to see if you were going to flood or if there was concern.
Kingwood was not the only area in the greater Houston area to experience this problem. In fact, most of the creeks, bayous, and reservoirs were not in flood stage until Sunday night when all hell broke lose and everything ended up in flood stage.aTm2004 said:It's not that the flooding was happening, but how fast it went from "things look good" to "we're ****ed."FHKChE07 said:
I was saying. The news was saying stay home an watch for weather alerts unless you were in a dangerous situation. Instead, people were out shopping and carrying on. Maybe, if you had been paying attention you would have seen the news that Cypress Creek and Spring Creek were at record levels that would be causing catastrophic flooding in the West Fork of the San Jacinto.
Also, I was addressing that you had "no idea" there was catastrophic flooding going around you by showing all of the examples that there was catastrophic flooding across the entire region instead of as you put it, "only around the Barker and Addicks reservoirs".
Then, you could have made your own educated decisions about whether you needed to evacuate because you were in a dangerous situation ahead of when you say that you found out, Monday afternoon when it was too late. You could have looked at the San Jacinto Forecast map which are updated pretty regularly to see if you were going to flood or if there was concern.
dlance said:
So, what is the current argument about? It seems to have shifted numerous times from SJRA Conspiracy to We Had No Idea It Would Flood to No One Packed My House And Moved Me Out Before The Flood.