MW03 said:

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This particular DA is a former police officer for what it's worth.

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John Creuzot is not a former police officer. Is one of the ADAs that's trying the case?

Sorry, I meant the lead prosecutor. Cruzot was a judge for a long time.

Cruezot is an ass.

MW03 said:

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Sorry, I meant the lead prosecutor. Cruzot was a judge for a long time.

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Where was he a police officer at?

You can look up the lead prosecutor's bio on the Dallas County website. It doesn't say anything about being a former police officer.

Ervin Burrell said:

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Forgive my ignorance on this, but every other post on this thread is "stay home on verdict day." Are we really expecting the city to burn if she's found not guilty? Are there protesters outside the courthouse en mass every day right now just waiting to commit violence? I haven't heard anything in the news locally about community activists saying "here's what we're going to do if justice isn't served", etc (not that I've sought that type of news out). Add to all of that that Botham was from St Lucia, not an African American (yes, I think it is a mitigating factor) and I'm just not seeing a Michael Brown type riot in the works. But, as I said I'm ignorant so what the hell do I know?

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State troopers in surrounding counties have been told to make sure their riot gear is in their cars in anticipation of potential issues after the verdict.

MW03 said:

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Sorry, I meant the lead prosecutor. Cruzot was a judge for a long time.

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Where did you hear that Hermus was police?

HarleySpoon said:

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Ervin Burrell said:

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Forgive my ignorance on this, but every other post on this thread is "stay home on verdict day." Are we really expecting the city to burn if she's found not guilty? Are there protesters outside the courthouse en mass every day right now just waiting to commit violence? I haven't heard anything in the news locally about community activists saying "here's what we're going to do if justice isn't served", etc (not that I've sought that type of news out). Add to all of that that Botham was from St Lucia, not an African American (yes, I think it is a mitigating factor) and I'm just not seeing a Michael Brown type riot in the works. But, as I said I'm ignorant so what the hell do I know?

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State troopers in surrounding counties have been told to make sure their riot gear is in their cars in anticipation of potential issues after the verdict.

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My bet (and hope) is that this is an abundance of caution sort of thing. No harm in being prepared.

People love to be chicken little about this sort of thing.

double aught said:

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HarleySpoon said:

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Ervin Burrell said:

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Forgive my ignorance on this, but every other post on this thread is "stay home on verdict day." Are we really expecting the city to burn if she's found not guilty? Are there protesters outside the courthouse en mass every day right now just waiting to commit violence? I haven't heard anything in the news locally about community activists saying "here's what we're going to do if justice isn't served", etc (not that I've sought that type of news out). Add to all of that that Botham was from St Lucia, not an African American (yes, I think it is a mitigating factor) and I'm just not seeing a Michael Brown type riot in the works. But, as I said I'm ignorant so what the hell do I know?

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State troopers in surrounding counties have been told to make sure their riot gear is in their cars in anticipation of potential issues after the verdict.

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My bet (and hope) is that this is an abundance of caution sort of thing. No harm in being prepared.

People love to be chicken little about this sort of thing.

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I mean, we did see the uproar and protests when they announced a manslaughter charge.

Not to be overly negative about my city, but I think Dallasites as a rule are too lazy to riot. It never happens. However, I have never seen a visceral reaction to an incident like I have seen to the Guyger case. There is a very real chance that there will be unrest when she is found not guilty.

Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

culdeus said:

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Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

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As in garnishing her future wages?

When she's found not guilty, part of me hopes she applies to get her job back with Dallas PD. It will never happen but I would laugh to see the chief trying to squirm and explain that.

Bocephus said:

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culdeus said:

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Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

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As in garnishing her future wages?

When she's found not guilty, part of me hopes she applies to get her job back with Dallas PD. It will never happen but I would laugh to see the chief trying to squirm and explain that.

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I imagine she will live a life like that mom that drown her kid in Florida. Nobody will hire her and she will do good to work security at a mall parking lot.

culdeus said:

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Bocephus said:

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culdeus said:

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Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

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As in garnishing her future wages?

When she's found not guilty, part of me hopes she applies to get her job back with Dallas PD. It will never happen but I would laugh to see the chief trying to squirm and explain that.

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I imagine she will live a life like that mom that drown her kid in Florida. Nobody will hire her and she will do good to work security at a mall parking lot.

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I definitely think a name change will be required.

Bocephus said:

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culdeus said:

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Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

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As in garnishing her future wages?

When she's found not guilty, part of me hopes she applies to get her job back with Dallas PD. It will never happen but I would laugh to see the chief trying to squirm and explain that.

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Why would the Chief squirm? If she asks for her job back, seems pretty easy to just say no and move on.

nai06 said:

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Bocephus said:

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culdeus said:

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Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

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As in garnishing her future wages?

When she's found not guilty, part of me hopes she applies to get her job back with Dallas PD. It will never happen but I would laugh to see the chief trying to squirm and explain that.

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Why would the Chief squirm? If she asks for her job back, seems pretty easy to just say no and move on.

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There's an appeal process. If Guyger is found not guilty, she would actually have a decent case to get it back. Many a Chief has been forced to take back officers they did not like for personal or professional reasons. My guess is that when she is found not guilty she will immediately move out of the state and start her life over. I would not be disappointed if she re-applied though.

Bocephus said:

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nai06 said:

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Bocephus said:

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culdeus said:

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Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

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As in garnishing her future wages?

When she's found not guilty, part of me hopes she applies to get her job back with Dallas PD. It will never happen but I would laugh to see the chief trying to squirm and explain that.

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Why would the Chief squirm? If she asks for her job back, seems pretty easy to just say no and move on.

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There's an appeal process. If Guyger is found not guilty, she would actually have a decent case to get it back. Many a Chief has been forced to take back officers they did not like for personal or professional reasons. My guess is that when she is found not guilty she will immediately move out of the state and start her life over. I would not be disappointed if she re-applied though.

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I guess I disagree. Even in the best case scenario, by her own admission she accidentally murdered someone. I feel like that's a pretty easy deal breaker.

Quote:

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There's an appeal process. If Guyger is found not guilty, she would actually have a decent case to get it back. Many a Chief has been forced to take back officers they did not like for personal or professional reasons. My guess is that when she is found not guilty she will immediately move out of the state and start her life over. I would not be disappointed if she re-applied though.

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We have a friend who was a captain with a large agency (not in Texas) who was fired when his wife accused him of rape. He'd been on for 18 years and they revoked his retirement and everything. Case went to trial, wife admitted that she'd lied to get revenge because he'd discovered her drug habit and threatened to divorce her. After he was acquitted, she was charged with perjury and a bunch of drug-related stuff and was sentenced to several years in prison. He waited for all that to play out and applied for his job back. The chief was mortified and pissed about it (mainly because massive investigative incompetence on the part of the department had been revealed during the trial) but had no choice but to hire him back. Long story short, he never worked one more day for that agency, but he got his retirement reinstated and a huge settlement from the county. It really was glorious in his case.

Guyger's case is completely different though. She actually killed someone who didn't deserve it. And it was due to an absurd mistake. She doesn't have any business being a cop, and it seems like it would be a pretty cut and dry "hell no" in the appeal process.

Yeah, not guilty of murder vs. do we trust you to do the tasks required of a police officer given this incident are two different bars. That said, any time a union is involved, some nonsensical decisions can happen.

Bocephus said:

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nai06 said:

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Bocephus said:

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culdeus said:

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Yeah. This has always been as clear a not guilty as you can find. From the onset this has had interest as a great friend of mine was shot under similar circumstances just not by a cop. That never got past a grand jury. So just making her sweat it a little and living life broke AF will have to be what constitutes progress.

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As in garnishing her future wages?

When she's found not guilty, part of me hopes she applies to get her job back with Dallas PD. It will never happen but I would laugh to see the chief trying to squirm and explain that.

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Why would the Chief squirm? If she asks for her job back, seems pretty easy to just say no and move on.

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There's an appeal process. If Guyger is found not guilty, she would actually have a decent case to get it back. Many a Chief has been forced to take back officers they did not like for personal or professional reasons. My guess is that when she is found not guilty she will immediately move out of the state and start her life over. I would not be disappointed if she re-applied though.

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She would not get her job back. She would be fired for a policy violation and the department would argue she is a huge financial liability to the city if she ever took another life.

It would be interesting to watch it play out if she went that route though...

Prosecution requesting to exclude Castle Doctrine language from the jury instructions.

Enviroag02 said:

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Prosecution requesting to exclude Castle Doctrine language from the jury instructions.

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I quit listening to motions but am now BACK IN.

Enviroag02 said:

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Prosecution requesting to exclude Castle Doctrine language from the jury instructions.

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translation?

It really doesn't matter since the Judge denied it. They wanted to exclude the Castle Doctrine because they said it creates the presumption that the danger existed, and that's something the jury needs to decide...essentially.

The State's lawyer is essentially requesting to remove all or most of the language that speaks to apparent danger, self defense, and separate the act from her belief she was entering her apartment.

Essentially saying that the language leads the jury to acquit if they decide she indeed thought she was in her apartment.

And judge is overruling these motions one after another.

yep...indeed she is

One hour closing per side

Enviroag02 said:

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The State's lawyer is essentially requesting to remove all or most of the language that speaks to apparent danger, self defense, and separate the act from her belief she was entering her apartment.

Essentially saying that the language leads the jury to acquit if they decide she indeed thought she was in her apartment.

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I guess this allows the DA to honestly tell the rioters they are going to appeal any innocent verdict....just to appease them with no hope of success.

She said jury is coming in at 10:15 - one hour closing argument per side.

Is there going to be rebuttal?

Jury coming back. Ready for closing arguments. Great time to tune in if you haven't been watching day to day.

Channel 8 legal expert gave 1 1/2 day potential deliberation, but readily admitted predicting time of deliberation is really hard.

they HAVE included lesser charges!

wbt5845 said:

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they HAVE included lesser charges!

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Murder or manslaughter?

bbattbq01 said:

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wbt5845 said:

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they HAVE included lesser charges!

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Murder or manslaughter?

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Both