austinag1997 said:

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dermdoc said:

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Senator Blutarski said:

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Doubtful. This kind of "reporting" always needs a clear good guy and bad guy.

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Agree. I am not watching. This is all geared by emotions. I want the facts.

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Doc, I hope you don't judge me if I watch.

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Of course not. Everybody handles these things in their own way.

Any place to watch this for free without a lot of hassle? Really irks me when they show it for free on TV and then lock it down. LOL.

BrazosDog02 said:

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Any place to watch this for free without a lot of hassle? Really irks me when they show it for free on TV and then lock it down. LOL.

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Free trial on Peacock?

fc2112 said:

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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Dateline has a 1-hour special tonight on Camp Mystic. Looks like they are talking to H27 parents, counselors, campers, and lawyers.

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Thanks for the heads up. Pulled it up on YTTV and thought it was well done.

Did not realize the way they discovered what happened to Bubble Inn.

And Ainslie Bashara was a real hero. 19 year old looked around and said "OK to heck with the "plan" - this is what we're doing."

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Pretty fair summary. Along with the Eastland's attorney being a grating personality and making a really bizarre claim about the floodwaters.

https://www.expressnews.com/news/article/camp-mystic-s-bankruptcy-case-eyed-dismissal-22412234.php?utm_source=reddit

This is going to very interesting to watch play out. The article makes a good point: the Camp is not operating and has not applied for a new license and has no income. I would assume that they rent out some of their facilities in the offseason for conferences and retreats....but it does not sound like they are even doing that. Further, the temporary injunction put in place by the state trial court forbids Eastland Inc. from doing basically anything at the Guadalupe River campus.

Add to all of this, the Lt. Governor and several high-profile state legislators have publicly stated that Eastland Inc. will never be allowed to operate a camp again; the implied threat is that they will somehow bring that threat to life through legislation.

At the end of the day, I just don't see what there is to reorganize under a Ch11 bankruptcy.

This dropped last week. Took a screenshot as it is 27 pages long and would not let me copy it.

Marvin_Zindler said:

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At the end of the day, I just don't see what there is to reorganize under a Ch11 bankruptcy.

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It's going to be a liquidating 11. High chance a ch.11 trustee is going to be appointed to run the business in place of the Eastland family. So the 11 trustee will come in and run what needs to be run in the interim.

What a liquidating 11 means is that the company will confirm a ch.11 plan that winds up operations, creates a post-confirmation trust, and provides a post-confirmation trustee the tools to monetize the debtor's assets, pursue claims owned by the debtor against former management and others, and marshal all of the insurance issues under one roof.

Here's the info on the ch.11 case. It's publicly available and free at this website.

https://dm.epiq11.com/case/campmystic/info

Crim law isn't my focus, but can an LLC commit manslaughter, etc? I doth think an LLC shields from criminal liability.

Queso1 said:

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Crim law isn't my focus, but can an LLC commit manslaughter, etc? I doth think an LLC shields from criminal liability.

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No idea. Just got this from Mary Grace's parents. Looks like there will a criminal trial. Not sure who the defendants will actually be.

Link to the complete document for one of Eastland, Inc.:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/28671860-t-eastland/https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/28671860-t-eastland/

P.H. Dexippus said:

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And this is why they shouldn't have all testified before the legislature.

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I believe the Texas Rangers had been called in prior to their testimony before the legislature. And I had heard whisperings about criminal charges almost from the start. I just want the truth and then whatever justice is thought appropriate.
If you or I ran our businesses like the Eastlands did, we deserve to get investigated by the Rangers also.

dermdoc said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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And this is why they shouldn't have all testified before the legislature.

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I believe the Texas Rangers had been called in prior to their testimony before the legislature. And I had heard whisperings about criminal charges almost from the start. I just want the truth and then whatever justice is thought appropriate.
If you or I ran our businesses like the Eastlands did, we deserve to get investigated by the Rangers also.

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There are new revelations in this affidavit that have not come out. Among them:

-There are apparently multiple photos that Glenn took while evac was ongoing that, to my knowledge, have not been made public.

-Tweety stayed at the house she was evac'd to for the entire day of July 4th.

-Cole Naylor has audio recording of an Ette saying Glenn told Nut Hut to stay put, even as the evacuation was ongoing.

-All of the Big 3 had walkie talkies with them and could have helped (along with all the other older adults at Up-Tight).

-Around the time Dick was trying to get Bubble Inn out, an acquaintance up-river is leaving him a voicemail warning him of flooding.

-Reading between the lines, it makes sense that the Big 3 lawyered up and refused to participate in the Joint Investigative Committee.

Marvin_Zindler said:

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dermdoc said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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And this is why they shouldn't have all testified before the legislature.

---

I believe the Texas Rangers had been called in prior to their testimony before the legislature. And I had heard whisperings about criminal charges almost from the start. I just want the truth and then whatever justice is thought appropriate.
If you or I ran our businesses like the Eastlands did, we deserve to get investigated by the Rangers also.

---

There are new revelations in this affidavit that have not come out. Among them:

-There are apparently multiple photos that Glenn took while evac was ongoing that, to my knowledge, have not been made public.

-Tweety stayed at the house she was evac'd to for the entire day of July 4th.

-Cole Naylor has audio recording of an Ette saying Glenn told Nut Hut to stay put, even as the evacuation was ongoing.

-All of the Big 3 had walkie talkies with them and could have helped (along with all the other older adults at Up-Tight).

-Around the time Dick was trying to get Bubble Inn out, an acquaintance up-river is leaving him a voicemail warning him of flooding.

-Reading between the lines, it makes sense that the Big 3 lawyered up and refused to participate in the Joint Investigative Committee.

---

Thanks. I had been hearing about criminal charges almost from the start.
And on a different note, I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money. The land is not worth much. All the fears about the Basses subdividing it into rancheros is not feasible. And my suggestion to the plaintiff attorney was to donate it to the state as a park. With only safe lodging. He agreed,

dermdoc said:

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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dermdoc said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

---

And this is why they shouldn't have all testified before the legislature.

---

I believe the Texas Rangers had been called in prior to their testimony before the legislature. And I had heard whisperings about criminal charges almost from the start. I just want the truth and then whatever justice is thought appropriate.
If you or I ran our businesses like the Eastlands did, we deserve to get investigated by the Rangers also.

---

There are new revelations in this affidavit that have not come out. Among them:

-There are apparently multiple photos that Glenn took while evac was ongoing that, to my knowledge, have not been made public.

-Tweety stayed at the house she was evac'd to for the entire day of July 4th.

-Cole Naylor has audio recording of an Ette saying Glenn told Nut Hut to stay put, even as the evacuation was ongoing.

-All of the Big 3 had walkie talkies with them and could have helped (along with all the other older adults at Up-Tight).

-Around the time Dick was trying to get Bubble Inn out, an acquaintance up-river is leaving him a voicemail warning him of flooding.

-Reading between the lines, it makes sense that the Big 3 lawyered up and refused to participate in the Joint Investigative Committee.

---

Thanks. I had been hearing about criminal charges almost from the start.
And on a different note, I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money. The land is not worth much. All the fears about the Basses subdividing it into rancheros is not feasible. And my suggestion to the plaintiff attorney was to donate it to the state as a park. With only safe lodging. He agreed,

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I would still love to see Young Life take it over. Probably wishful thinking.

Cypress Lake, as currently constructed, has plenty of utility as a camp operation without any major issues to come into compliance with state law.

Marvin_Zindler said:

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dermdoc said:

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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dermdoc said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

And this is why they shouldn't have all testified before the legislature.

---

I believe the Texas Rangers had been called in prior to their testimony before the legislature. And I had heard whisperings about criminal charges almost from the start. I just want the truth and then whatever justice is thought appropriate.
If you or I ran our businesses like the Eastlands did, we deserve to get investigated by the Rangers also.

---

There are new revelations in this affidavit that have not come out. Among them:

-There are apparently multiple photos that Glenn took while evac was ongoing that, to my knowledge, have not been made public.

-Tweety stayed at the house she was evac'd to for the entire day of July 4th.

-Cole Naylor has audio recording of an Ette saying Glenn told Nut Hut to stay put, even as the evacuation was ongoing.

-All of the Big 3 had walkie talkies with them and could have helped (along with all the other older adults at Up-Tight).

-Around the time Dick was trying to get Bubble Inn out, an acquaintance up-river is leaving him a voicemail warning him of flooding.

-Reading between the lines, it makes sense that the Big 3 lawyered up and refused to participate in the Joint Investigative Committee.

---

Thanks. I had been hearing about criminal charges almost from the start.
And on a different note, I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money. The land is not worth much. All the fears about the Basses subdividing it into rancheros is not feasible. And my suggestion to the plaintiff attorney was to donate it to the state as a park. With only safe lodging. He agreed,

---

I would still love to see Young Life take it over. Probably wishful thinking.

Cypress Lake, as currently constructed, has plenty of utility as a camp operation without any major issues to come into compliance with state law.

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I would love Young Life to take it over.

I'd love it to be a state park. The state is now finally in a long overdue growth mode on state parks.

Leggo My Elko said:

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I'd love it to be a state park. The state is now finally in a long overdue growth mode on state parks.

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Fine with that also. Either way I would love to see some kind of memorial to the girls.

dermdoc said:

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I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money.

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It makes sense that people are after criminal charges in this case. Reading the tea leaves in the filings in the BK docket, this unfortunately appears to be the case. Outside of the carriers, there doesn't appear to be a true "deep pocket" for anyone to go after. And busting coverage limits against the carriers is a non starter because their response to a demand of policy limits will basically be to say, "Agreed. Send wiring instructions."

It's all circumstantial. If anyone remembers the Watson Grinding case (explosion in West Houston), it turns out 3M was running safety and inspection that should have caught the issue before the tragedy. They're now a big fat "deep pocket" that will provide recovery to people killed or injured (and get the Tony Buzbees of the world richer).

dermdoc said:

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ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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dermdoc said:

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I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money.

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It makes sense that people are after criminal charges in this case. Reading the tea leaves in the filings in the BK docket, this unfortunately appears to be the case. Outside of the carriers, there doesn't appear to be a true "deep pocket" for anyone to go after. And busting coverage limits against the carriers is a non starter because their response to a demand of policy limits will basically be to say, "Agreed. Send wiring instructions."

It's all circumstantial. If anyone remembers the Watson Grinding case (explosion in West Houston), it turns out 3M was running safety and inspection that should have caught the issue before the tragedy. They're now a big fat "deep pocket" that will provide recovery to people killed or injured (and get the Tony Buzbees of the world richer).

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I believe the criminal charges stand on their own whatever happens on the civil side.

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I agree with your sentiment. I can't say much but someone close to me lost a daughter.

That said, in the legal system, the lack of a deep pocket always seems to move the cogs in the criminal system. My view is absolutely cynical on this point.

ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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dermdoc said:

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ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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dermdoc said:

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I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money.

---

It makes sense that people are after criminal charges in this case. Reading the tea leaves in the filings in the BK docket, this unfortunately appears to be the case. Outside of the carriers, there doesn't appear to be a true "deep pocket" for anyone to go after. And busting coverage limits against the carriers is a non starter because their response to a demand of policy limits will basically be to say, "Agreed. Send wiring instructions."

It's all circumstantial. If anyone remembers the Watson Grinding case (explosion in West Houston), it turns out 3M was running safety and inspection that should have caught the issue before the tragedy. They're now a big fat "deep pocket" that will provide recovery to people killed or injured (and get the Tony Buzbees of the world richer).

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I believe the criminal charges stand on their own whatever happens on the civil side.

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I agree with your sentiment. I can't say much but someone close to me lost a daughter.

That said, in the legal system, the lack of a deep pocket always seems to move the cogs in the criminal system. My view is absolutely cynical on this point.

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I hear you but I am biased as to what happened and what I feel would be justice. So maybe I am part of what you are describing.

dermdoc said:

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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dermdoc said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

And this is why they shouldn't have all testified before the legislature.

---

I believe the Texas Rangers had been called in prior to their testimony before the legislature. And I had heard whisperings about criminal charges almost from the start. I just want the truth and then whatever justice is thought appropriate.
If you or I ran our businesses like the Eastlands did, we deserve to get investigated by the Rangers also.

---

There are new revelations in this affidavit that have not come out. Among them:

-There are apparently multiple photos that Glenn took while evac was ongoing that, to my knowledge, have not been made public.

-Tweety stayed at the house she was evac'd to for the entire day of July 4th.

-Cole Naylor has audio recording of an Ette saying Glenn told Nut Hut to stay put, even as the evacuation was ongoing.

-All of the Big 3 had walkie talkies with them and could have helped (along with all the other older adults at Up-Tight).

-Around the time Dick was trying to get Bubble Inn out, an acquaintance up-river is leaving him a voicemail warning him of flooding.

-Reading between the lines, it makes sense that the Big 3 lawyered up and refused to participate in the Joint Investigative Committee.

---

Thanks. I had been hearing about criminal charges almost from the start.
And on a different note, I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money. The land is not worth much. All the fears about the Basses subdividing it into rancheros is not feasible. And my suggestion to the plaintiff attorney was to donate it to the state as a park. With only safe lodging. He agreed,

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I beg to differ.

cheeky said:

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dermdoc said:

---

Marvin_Zindler said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

P.H. Dexippus said:

---

And this is why they shouldn't have all testified before the legislature.

---

I believe the Texas Rangers had been called in prior to their testimony before the legislature. And I had heard whisperings about criminal charges almost from the start. I just want the truth and then whatever justice is thought appropriate.
If you or I ran our businesses like the Eastlands did, we deserve to get investigated by the Rangers also.

---

There are new revelations in this affidavit that have not come out. Among them:

-There are apparently multiple photos that Glenn took while evac was ongoing that, to my knowledge, have not been made public.

-Tweety stayed at the house she was evac'd to for the entire day of July 4th.

-Cole Naylor has audio recording of an Ette saying Glenn told Nut Hut to stay put, even as the evacuation was ongoing.

-All of the Big 3 had walkie talkies with them and could have helped (along with all the other older adults at Up-Tight).

-Around the time Dick was trying to get Bubble Inn out, an acquaintance up-river is leaving him a voicemail warning him of flooding.

-Reading between the lines, it makes sense that the Big 3 lawyered up and refused to participate in the Joint Investigative Committee.

---

Thanks. I had been hearing about criminal charges almost from the start.
And on a different note, I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money. The land is not worth much. All the fears about the Basses subdividing it into rancheros is not feasible. And my suggestion to the plaintiff attorney was to donate it to the state as a park. With only safe lodging. He agreed,

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I beg to differ.

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All I am going by is what what a plaintiff attorney told me. Because of its location and safety issues. Never should have been used as a girl's camp.

Leggo My Elko said:

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ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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dermdoc said:

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I have also heard that all the plaintiffs will get from Mystic is the insurance money.

---

It makes sense that people are after criminal charges in this case. Reading the tea leaves in the filings in the BK docket, this unfortunately appears to be the case. Outside of the carriers, there doesn't appear to be a true "deep pocket" for anyone to go after. And busting coverage limits against the carriers is a non starter because their response to a demand of policy limits will basically be to say, "Agreed. Send wiring instructions."

It's all circumstantial. If anyone remembers the Watson Grinding case (explosion in West Houston), it turns out 3M was running safety and inspection that should have caught the issue before the tragedy. They're now a big fat "deep pocket" that will provide recovery to people killed or injured (and get the Tony Buzbees of the world richer).

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The land is pretty valuable.

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Just curious how do you know this?

Howdy Dammit said:

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Yeah. Isn't it like 700+ acres? Without looking at any comps I would venture to say that is 10-15M for that ranch.

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Sorry, I just wanted to use that gif.

Howdy Dammit said:

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Yeah. Isn't it like 700+ acres? Without looking at any comps I would venture to say that is 10-15M for that ranch.

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Not what I am hearing. And I am very close to the situation. We shall see.