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And the fact that they did not have any fatalities in that incident is IMO a matter of luck that the cabin didn't break up moreso than superiority of their plan.

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Windy City Ag said:

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Either allow others' opinions or just call this an echo chamber. Your comment does nothing for the discussion. People familiar with the river and flood events in that area should be able to add color commentary here versus the armchair second guessing many are providing.

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This entire thread has been a back and forth debating the facts of the case.

Your voice is also welcome by the rules of this forum but:

1) your initial post basically said this event hurts your feelings so everyone on the internet needs to stop talking about it.

2) Your second post now says only a certain people get to comment on facts of the case while everyone else has to be quiet.

I would encourage you instead to point out incorrect statements and set the record straight if you have details but otherwise please don't try to shut the discussion down based on your own personal views of how a discussion should go. That is not how this all works.

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As for your final statement, you need to decide what you want. In your first point you criticize my post pointing out an incorrect statement, now you are encouraging me to point out incorrect statements.

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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Breaking news is that Mystic has withdrawn their license application.

From Gage Goulding at KPRC in Houston:

BREAKING: The owners of Camp Mystic say they just withdrew their state application for summer camp season. The wording of their statement makes it sound like they will not open this year. (See below)

This comes amid hearings in Austin over the death of 27 campers and counselors during the July 4, 2025, flooding.

Here's the full statement shared with me;

"Camp Mystic today informed the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS) that it is withdrawing its application for a summer 2026 camp license.

No administrative process or summer season should move forward while families continue to grieve, while investigations continue and while so many Texans still carry the pain of last July's tragedy. We commend DSHS for their testimony this week that recognized their legal obligations. But rather than risk defending our rights under Texas law in a manner that may unintentionally effect further harm, we choose rather to withdraw our application for the 2026 camp season.

Twenty-eight precious lives were lost. We recognize that no statement and no decision can undo that loss or ease the burden carried each day by parents, siblings, loved ones, survivors, first responders and our beautiful Kerr County community. We also recognize that over 800 girls want to return to Camp Mystic Cypress Lake this summer. Our special bond with our Camp Mystic families does not change or end with the announcement. We love each of you.

This decision is intended to remove any doubt that Camp Mystic has heard the concerns expressed by grieving families, members of the Texas House and Senate investigating committees and citizens across our state. Respect for those voices requires that we step back now.

Camp Mystic will continue to fully cooperate with all ongoing investigations, comply with every lawful requirement and continue supporting recovery and healing efforts.

Today is not about camp operations. It is about respect for the families, accountability to the public and reverence for the memory of the lives lost."

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I firmly believe they knew the state was going to keep them from opening and they attempted to get out in front of the release for good PR for potential jury pools.

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dermdoc said:

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Marvin_Zindler said:

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Breaking news is that Mystic has withdrawn their license application.

From Gage Goulding at KPRC in Houston:

BREAKING: The owners of Camp Mystic say they just withdrew their state application for summer camp season. The wording of their statement makes it sound like they will not open this year. (See below)

This comes amid hearings in Austin over the death of 27 campers and counselors during the July 4, 2025, flooding.

Here's the full statement shared with me;

"Camp Mystic today informed the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS) that it is withdrawing its application for a summer 2026 camp license.

No administrative process or summer season should move forward while families continue to grieve, while investigations continue and while so many Texans still carry the pain of last July's tragedy. We commend DSHS for their testimony this week that recognized their legal obligations. But rather than risk defending our rights under Texas law in a manner that may unintentionally effect further harm, we choose rather to withdraw our application for the 2026 camp season.

Twenty-eight precious lives were lost. We recognize that no statement and no decision can undo that loss or ease the burden carried each day by parents, siblings, loved ones, survivors, first responders and our beautiful Kerr County community. We also recognize that over 800 girls want to return to Camp Mystic Cypress Lake this summer. Our special bond with our Camp Mystic families does not change or end with the announcement. We love each of you.

This decision is intended to remove any doubt that Camp Mystic has heard the concerns expressed by grieving families, members of the Texas House and Senate investigating committees and citizens across our state. Respect for those voices requires that we step back now.

Camp Mystic will continue to fully cooperate with all ongoing investigations, comply with every lawful requirement and continue supporting recovery and healing efforts.

Today is not about camp operations. It is about respect for the families, accountability to the public and reverence for the memory of the lives lost."

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Sorry to be cynical but giving how Mystic has acted since the tragedy, I firmly believe they knew the state was going to keep them from opening and they attempted to get out in front of the release for good PR for potential jury pools.

This reeks of lawyer authorship to me. Remember the same people who supposedly wrote that conciliatory letter announced they were planning to reopen this summer. Less than 6 weeks after the funerals and while poor dear Cile Garner's body was still missing.

I believe if the state had not forced the issue, they would reopen.

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Windy City Ag said:

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I firmly believe they knew the state was going to keep them from opening and they attempted to get out in front of the release for good PR for potential jury pools.

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I have heard from several Mystic alums that many of the applications were pulled in the last several days after the testimony was broadcast. Who knows if that is true but I can see how certain families felt less certain about things after that very detailed and heartbreaking analysis.

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sellthefarm said:

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The gauge comparisons in Hunt are irrelevant unless you tie them to the flood depth at Mystic. It seems entirely possible, if not likely, based on testimonies from Mystic people and neighbors, that the flood depth at Mystic had never reached the level of July 4 (or maybe never even gotten close).

So even if the gauge reading at Hunt was somewhat equivalent - that doesn't mean anything for Mystic IMO. It could actually prove the opposite. Suppose the 1930s flood resulted in limited damage at Mystic. Wouldn't that prove this wasn't a predictable flood event. That's the information I've yet to find. That's the missing link for me on proving negligence.

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Windy City Ag said:

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I firmly believe they knew the state was going to keep them from opening and they attempted to get out in front of the release for good PR for potential jury pools.

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I have heard from several Mystic alums that many of the applications were pulled in the last several days after the testimony was broadcast. Who knows if that is true but I can see how certain families felt less certain about things after that very detailed and heartbreaking analysis.

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warrington said:

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It was a tragedy. The part that irks me is supposedly they pushed back on the flood map and talked the flood people into redrawing the lines. If this is true, they are on the hook for all those that lost their lives and the PTSD for all those affected. I believe the owners were heros during this moment, but were criminal if they helped change the flood plain lines to benefit their camp.

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Good at hiring scumbag lawyers
Not good at hiring people to protect children

Not hard to do the math on the Eastlands

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dermdoc said:

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Windy City Ag said:

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I firmly believe they knew the state was going to keep them from opening and they attempted to get out in front of the release for good PR for potential jury pools.

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I have heard from several Mystic alums that many of the applications were pulled in the last several days after the testimony was broadcast. Who knows if that is true but I can see how certain families felt less certain about things after that very detailed and heartbreaking analysis.

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This is the first even semi conciliatory thing to come out of Mystic since the tragedy. Smells like the defense knows their goose is cooked. Kind of like the defense attorney for the Eastlands who went off on the plaintiff attorney and told him he would "roast in hell".

This is not the behavior of a winning side in a lawsuit in my opinion.

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Corps_Ag12 said:

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Has the supposedly unrelated cloud seeding that had been done just days before west of the area been brought into question yet?

Weather Modification Company Reveals Cloud Seeding Operations Conducted in Texas Just Two Days Before Deadly Flood The Vault Project

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Fdsa said:

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dermdoc said:

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Fdsa said:

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https://kerrcountylead.com/the-monster-in-the-canyon-what-the-storm-actually-was-and-what-was-never-asked/


"Scientists estimate the three-hour rainfall totals over the South Fork carried a 1-in-1,000-year probability a 0.1% chance of occurring in any given year. Even across a full 24 hours, the totals represented a 1-in-200-year event. Most flood infrastructure is designed around 1-in-100-year events. A common misconception is worth stating plainly: a 1-in-1,000-year event does not mean the region is safe from a similar event for the next millennium. The odds reset every year.

This is the scientific context that was entirely absent from two days of legislative testimony this week. When Sen. Jos Menndez the committee's only Democrat and the member who came closest to raising the science asked investigator Casey Garrett about the rate of rise at the confluence near Hunt, noting from prior research that the river appeared to rise approximately 29 feet in roughly 45 minutes, Garrett confirmed the investigators had not examined that question. No other member pursued it.

The committee spent nearly 13 hours establishing what people did and did not do in the hours before the surge arrived. It did not spend a single minute examining what the surge actually was."

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The flood happened. That is a fact. The committee and future jury (if a trial actually occurs) SHOULD focus on how the people acted, responded, and had planned. That is what they are judging. Not the severity of the flood. They can't judge Mother Nature.

If as a doc, I am confronted by the rarest, most horrific med case that ever happened I do not get a free pass because it is so rare or horrific. I am judged by how I respond to the challenge.

In my opinion, the Eastlands failed miserably and had no plan. Your opinion seems to differ which is fine,

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The severity of the event does matter when you're talking about gross negligence.

Why was the scope of the investigation changed? Do you not think the other victims of the flood deserve some answers on what the state or county could have done differently?

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