Senator Blutarski said:

---

Why would you say that I'm mad? All four of my previous posts on this thread have been nothing but facts, logic, and reason, not emotion.

---

Your opening copying sarcasm using my previous post. Sorry if I missed the mark...

raidernarizona said:

---

Quit spewing lies! They moved 6 cabins worth of girls to higher ground.

---

im well aware of that. I never said they didn't move girls. My problem is they didn't move ALL girls. I'm well aware of the facts considering some of our best friends lost their little girl at Mystic.

Gator92 said:

---

174 Camps have been sent a "notice of deficiency"

Quote:

---

A "notice of deficiency" was sent to camps this week by the Texas Department of State Health Services requiring them to revise their emergency plans before receiving a license to operate in the summer. According to the department, the letter is part of the licensing application review process, and a total of 174 camps have received such a notice from the department.

Specific to Camp Mystic, key issues noted in the letter from the state are a lack of staff responsibilities in many areas of safety procedures (including fire, medical, natural disaster and other contingencies), parent notification processes, accessibility and issues with documentation.

---

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/texas-camps-must-revise-emergency-plans-reopen

---

Meh…can we see samples of the other 174 camps that got notices and what those deficiencies were? I can't really judge mystic before seeing that.

We already have plenty to judge Mystic because we've seen the half-assed half-page plan

DannyDuberstein said:

---

We already have plenty to judge Mystic because we've seen the half-assed half-page plan

---

Yes, everyone is biased, I know. I don't care about their opinion, I want to see these things for myself. We all got the same third hand info and Im not sure some on this thread got anything except from really bad news sources, so I would like to see this info.

I posted their emergency plan on this thread - it's a pic of the page from their binder. Take a look for yourself. It was widely circulated after the flood

DannyDuberstein said:

---

I posted their emergency plan on this thread. Take a look for yourself.

---

Oh man, you didn't read anything at all. We all saw the 'plan' from months ago. I don't need that.

From one of the articles:

Quote:

---

State officials say all 174 camps that have submitted emergency plans this year have received deficiency letters, and some camps have yet to submit a plan.

---

Camp mystic is just the example that is about to be made for obvious reasons, but it exposes a much deeper issue at hand, and I would like to follow that rabbit hole. Camp mystic just got busted...they aren't alone and I'd be shocked if they were even the worst. I just want to see what else we have going on in the summer camp world.

I'll state it again in one sentence.

Do you have the other 174 camps letters of deficiencies or even 2-3 of them so I can compare that to camp mystic as of today?

Oh man, You actually didn't read what I posted before. I'll bold it in one sentence: I don't care what the other 174 have when I've seen their plan and it was completely inadequate garbage that they weren't following.

DannyDuberstein said:

---

Oh man, You actually didn't read what I posted before. I'll bold it in one sentence: I don't care what the other 174 have when I've seen their plan and it was completely inadequate garbage that they weren't following.

---

You could have just said "I DONT KNOW" or "I ONLY SAY WHAT I READ FROM THE NEWS" or better yet, not responded. You've wasted a lot of energy saying nothing, providing nothing of use for those who are actually interested in following this closer than just "what the news tells us". This is F16 level junk. I expect better on the OB.

Pretty sad that you apparently can't judge the plan that was posted. That is all I have posted - we have seen the plan that was in place. Not thirdhand. Not what someone told us. We have seen the plan. It was pathetic.

DannyDuberstein said:

---

Pretty sad that you apparently can't judge the plan that was posted.

---

It's not sad. It's what methodical, interested, sane individuals do when they aren't running with blinders borne of rage and emotion.

What IS sad is that ALL 174 camps that sent in EMERGENCY PLANS received letters of deficiency and no one has so much as wondered why? It's up there with all these 1200+ parents that somehow never called, texted, or emailed the camp at midnight before this event unfolded. Folks are so hell bent on making sure Camp Mystic dies, they tend to forget there are a lot more than one little old camp that has issues.

I don't care about Mystics plan. We've seen that plan for almost year now, it's been in the news, we've read hundreds of articles, we've watched DAYS of direct testimony...yeah yeah yeah...we got it. Don't care.

It bothers me when people read what they are told to read and don't think critically or say "Man, that's not adding up. We should look into that." When did society lose that desire to know aspect?

Can You two please….

BrazosDog02 said:

---

DannyDuberstein said:

---

Pretty sad that you apparently can't judge the plan that was posted.

---

It's not sad. It's what methodical, interested, sane individuals do when they aren't running with blinders borne of rage and emotion.

What IS sad is that ALL 174 camps that sent in EMERGENCY PLANS received letters of deficiency and no one has so much as wondered why? It's up there with all these 1200+ parents that somehow never called, texted, or emailed the camp at midnight before this event unfolded. Folks are so hell bent on making sure Camp Mystic dies, they tend to forget there are a lot more than one little old camp that has issues.

I don't care about Mystics plan. We've seen that plan for almost year now, it's been in the news, we've read hundreds of articles, we've watched DAYS of direct testimony...yeah yeah yeah...we got it. Don't care.

It bothers me when people read what they are told to read and don't think critically or say "Man, that's not adding up. We should look into that." When did society lose that desire to know aspect?

---

So if all the other camps were deficient, how does vindicate Mystic? If 10 folks are stealing stuff and only one gets caught, is their defense that everybody else was stealing so it's okay?

And I am not hell bent on shutting Mystic down. Mystic did it to themselves.

And the kids did not die because the parents did not email or text them. If I remember correctly, Mystic did not allow cell phones so how do you get an email?

BrazosDog02 said:

---

DannyDuberstein said:

---

Oh man, You actually didn't read what I posted before. I'll bold it in one sentence: I don't care what the other 174 have when I've seen their plan and it was completely inadequate garbage that they weren't following.

---

You could have just said "I DONT KNOW" or "I ONLY SAY WHAT I READ FROM THE NEWS" or better yet, not responded. You've wasted a lot of energy saying nothing, providing nothing of use for those who are actually interested in following this closer than just "what the news tells us". This is F16 level junk. I expect better on the OB.

---

This thread belongs on F16. It's killing the OB vibe.

cheeky said:

---

BrazosDog02 said:

---

DannyDuberstein said:

---

Oh man, You actually didn't read what I posted before. I'll bold it in one sentence: I don't care what the other 174 have when I've seen their plan and it was completely inadequate garbage that they weren't following.

---

You could have just said "I DONT KNOW" or "I ONLY SAY WHAT I READ FROM THE NEWS" or better yet, not responded. You've wasted a lot of energy saying nothing, providing nothing of use for those who are actually interested in following this closer than just "what the news tells us". This is F16 level junk. I expect better on the OB.

---

This thread belongs on F16. It's killing the OB vibe.

---

Fine with me. Put it on here because of the other post.

Quote:

---

So if all the other camps were deficient, how does vindicate Mystic? If 10 folks are stealing stuff and only one gets caught, is their defense that everybody else was stealing so it's okay?

---

MEH..Ediited since i'm tired of arguing it.

We aren't vindicating anyone.

If this was about anything other than the money, and if it was truly about saving other kids, people involved would want to see how the other camps fared on the evacuation plan, especially because this is the point that is harped on so much.

I get that people are scared that the other camps might be worse and that they may have just gotten really lucky, but it's good to see the overall feel of how things are handled.

Quote:

---

And the kids did not die because the parents did not email or text them. If I remember correctly, Mystic did not allow cell phones so how do you get an email?

---

I get it...it's not the parents fault. There is no way they could have possibly been monitoring anything regarding their own children or get in touch with anyone. My wife is able to get in touch with our kids at camp when they didn't have cell phones. We communicate with them several times a day, rain or shine, and even in the early morning hours if a weather alert or EMS thing comes in. There are cell phones at camp, a lot of them, and its been proven in evidentiary hearings that those people were on those devices all evening and into the next day.

It's a nice thing to have dug up when your defendant says they didn't get enough warning. Parents should have provided more than enough warning and I don't believe these parents were so disconnected that they completely checked out for the time their kids were at camp.

DannyDuberstein said:

---

We already have plenty to judge Mystic because we've seen the half-assed half-page plan

---

I haven't read every post but I take it Mystic had an inadequate plan. How many of the parents that sent their children to the camp requested, reviewed and questioned the plan before sending their children to a camp/area known to be in the flood plain and with a history of some catastrophic events?

BrazosDog02 said:

---

Quote:

---

So if all the other camps were deficient, how does vindicate Mystic? If 10 folks are stealing stuff and only one gets caught, is their defense that everybody else was stealing so it's okay?

---

MEH..Ediited since i'm tired of arguing it.

We aren't vindicating anyone.

If this was about anything other than the money, and if it was truly about saving other kids, people involved would want to see how the other camps fared on the evacuation plan, especially because this is the point that is harped on so much.

I get that people are scared that the other camps might be worse and that they may have just gotten really lucky, but it's good to see the overall feel of how things are handled.

Quote:

---

And the kids did not die because the parents did not email or text them. If I remember correctly, Mystic did not allow cell phones so how do you get an email?

---

I get it...it's not the parents fault. There is no way they could have possibly been monitoring anything regarding their own children or get in touch with anyone. My wife is able to get in touch with our kids at camp when they didn't have cell phones. We communicate with them several times a day, rain or shine, and even in the early morning hours if a weather alert or EMS thing comes in. There are cell phones at camp, a lot of them, and its been proven in evidentiary hearings that those people were on those devices all evening and into the next day.

It's a nice thing to have dug up when your defendant says they didn't get enough warning. Parents should have provided more than enough warning and I don't believe these parents were so disconnected that they completely checked out for the time their kids were at camp.

---

So say the parents had contacted their kids about the danger. The campers and counselors were told by Dick Eastland to stay in their cabins. So do you think 8 y/o little girls and teenage counselors are going to disobey the camp owner?

And it would have made no difference. Sounds to me like you are trying to shift the liability from Mystic to the parents.

The arguments that the parents should have called or checked the plans beforehand, the arguments that this was a 1000 year unprecedented event, etc. don't really matter when the camp did not provide walkie talkies or any way to communicate to the counselors. They had a critical window when they could have asked the counselors to evacuate by foot and it would not have taken long. This is like if a school principal decides your kids school doesn't need to do fire drills. There is also no alert system set up for fires to tell teachers to evacuate. Do you still want that same principal running the school after a fire?

AustinCountyAg said:

---

John Cocktolstoy said:

---

I'm going to give an example that in now way is similar in loss, but is similar in preparedness.

Years back, we had a rain event up north of Waco and Hilsboro area. We had the lake coming up and I took off to go make sure the boat was lifted higher so prop was not in the water. I did all my checks of things tp prepare and headed back to CS. The next day my entire dock went under water, pump, cleaning station, you name it. Water went up into yard where I had never seen it. Top of dam is way lower than top of my dock. A wall of water came downstream and for 40 minutes we had super high water. It was a freak happening. Again, this is no comparison in loss but very much like what happened on the Guadalupe. It is hard to prepare for the things that are out of the realm of possibility. Is it possible? That will be a big question for everything now.

---

So you had a feeling water could possibly rise and you decided to move your valuables up higher while you had time?

Mystic had a feeling water was going to rise so they moved their valuables (kayaks) to higher ground as well when they had time. Except, all the children.

---

This is such a bad response and taken out of context and you know it.

Brother, If I had 10 hands on my body, I still wouldn't have enough fingers to point to everyone I think is directly at fault. And one of those people can't be sued or accessed, but I'll sure as hell be adding this to my list of questions I'll be demanding answers to one day if I am so fortunate. It's a long list of complaints, but this will be near the top.

BrazosDog02 said:

---

Brother, If I had 10 hands on my body, I still wouldn't have enough fingers to point to everyone I think is directly at fault. And one of those people can't be sued or accessed, but I'll sure as hell be adding this to my list of questions I'll be demanding answers to one day if I am so fortunate. It's a long list of complaints, but this will be near the top.

---

With all due respect, who you and I think are responsible for the deaths does not matter. It is up to the jury. I firmly believe when all the evidence is produced it will be a fairly easy decision.

BrazosDog seems to know alot more than everybody about just about everything. I used to be that way. It isnt a good look.

Wowzers

Bayou City said:

---

BrazosDog seems to know alot more than everybody about just about everything. I used to be that way. It isnt a good look.

Wowzers

---

Yes. Knowledge is power. And the good news is that you too can be in the know and also "know alot more than everybody". Go to page 2, third post from the end, all the proceedings I could find are there.

The peak of internet technology and the entirety of humankind's information is yours with the click of a mouse.

Get your learn on.

Quote:

---

My problem is they didn't move ALL girls. I'm well aware of the facts considering some of our best friends lost their little girl at Mystic.

---

I too am aware of the facts. I was an usher in one of those beautiful little girl's funeral.

In the heat of the moment, can you understand how taking 8 yo girls out of their shelter, into a lightning and thunder storm with a 2-3"/hour torrential rain, up a 40% slope was not the easiest of decisions? Straight up the hill was their only means of egress and there was a lot of water coning off that hill. Edmundson Creek had them blocked off from Cypress Lake and the road up to Sky High.

I feel like too many are not familiar with the camp layout or topography. Thank God the Nut Hut counselors made the decision they did, but the hill was right outside their back door.

For what it's worth, I am under no impression that this case goes any way except against mystic. My opinion of the myriad of people who failed starting way back in 2017 has no bearing on the events that happened in that 4 hour window. Mystic is absolutely f-ed and as stated previous, no judge is going to let this case go any other way. The justice or whatever these parents are seeking from mystic will come to pass.

https://house.texas.gov/videos/22678

AustinCountyAg said:

---

https://house.texas.gov/videos/22678

---

I would encourage anyone who has the stomach for it to watch the presentation from this morning. The special counsel lays out the full timeline of the night of July 3rd and the morning of July 4th in very good detail.

HEARTBREAKING!

wow. The slide about Dick Eastland is really something. All the descriptions of him being "old school" and everybody being scared to speak up, etc....geez. All the people wanting to destroy the Eastlands and their entire reputation forever are definitely getting their wish.

i don't see how they keep the camp or the camp survives at all. Going to be sold and developed.

And honestly the more you hear the more you wonder about criminal negligence.

This morning was painful to watch. Seems pretty obvious to me how extremely unprepared they were.

Quote:

---

This morning was painful to watch. Seems pretty obvious to me how extremely unprepared they were.

---

If Camp Mystic was not already dead yet, this was the kill shot.

• The reduction of counselors per cabin and use of the youngest girls (The 'ettes) in the cabins that were hit
• The working PA system that was never used
• The Eastland family themselves describing their dad a a control freak and the totally ad hoc response.

will this be recorded anywhere? I was behind and was only 20 minutes in and its now off

- Only 3 flash flood warnings during camp season in the last 25 years. Deflates "warning fatigue" excuse
- never did any kind of emergency drill of any sort ever
- security was on site 10am to 2am. To comfort concerned parents, Dick had told them it was 24/7
- at 1:45am, he told Glenn J to go home so he wouldn't get stuck there (his shift was set to end at 2am). He thankfully ignored Dick

Anybody have a new link to that portion of the proceedings? I got to the point where they lost communication with Dick and the playback stopped. When I tried to reload it said it is no longer available.