KingofHazor said:

---

The America Party recently released its platform. It should delight small government types and conservatives:

• Universal basic income
• Carbon taxes
• Responsible spending (what the heck is that, whatever Musk says it is?)
• Sustainable investment (i.e., green energy)
• Invest in AI, robotics, and space (i.e., Musk's favorite pork barrel projects)

The America Party | TheAmericaParty.org

---

Hell it seems like AOC will be one of their prime candidates. UBI, tax O&G, Green New Deal, and only spend money "responsibly" on, as you indicate, whatever the heck they want to.

The silver lining on Elon's latest "squirrel" exercise is that it will flame and fade long before the 2026 midterms.

If he really wanted to change the political landscape with a 3rd party, he could mop up in the Valley then rest of texas with a well thought out platform.

Instead he is trying to cobble together a party of people pissed over their single issues.

Phatbob said:

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infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Been over this many times. He has government contracts for providing services. That is not subsidies. But you're just stirring the pot, so I think you know that.

---

His companies have also received millions and billions in grants, abatements, credits, loan forgiveness, guaranteed loans - you know, subsidies.

And these FACTS have indeed been gone over many times. Do some research and quit falling for the "Elon receives no subsidies" nonsense. That is simply... untrue.

KingofHazor said:

---

The America Party recently released its platform. It should delight small government types and conservatives:

• Universal basic income
• Carbon taxes
• Responsible spending (what the heck is that, whatever Musk says it is?)
• Sustainable investment (i.e., green energy)
• Invest in AI, robotics, and space (i.e., Musk's favorite pork barrel projects)

The America Party | TheAmericaParty.org

---

They're about as far off from small government and conservative as the Republican party, but we know for sure we won't get it from today's Republicans. Getting in on the ground floor gets flexibility and influence. If they really are going to be responsible about spending, UBI goes away.

Phatbob said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Been over this many times. He has government contracts for providing services. That is not subsidies. But you're just stirring the pot, so I think you know that.

---

Well, the tax credit for purchasing an electric vehicle was a subsidy. Tesla also earned significant revenue by selling regulatory credits to other automakers, an almost 1/2 billion dollar loan from DOE, and all of his companies have received tax credits and incentives from state and local governments.

I agree, though, that government contracts earned through fair competition are not subsidies.

Quote:

---

If they really are going to be responsible about spending, UBI goes away.

---

What makes you think that "they really are going to be responsible about spending"?

Phatbob said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Been over this many times. He has government contracts for providing services. That is not subsidies. But you're just stirring the pot, so I think you know that.

---

Sure thing Elon.... Trump called it subsidies, so I will call it subsidies.

I asked ChatGPT.
Question:

Quote:

---

Does Elon Musk get subsidies from the US Government?

---

Answer:

Quote:

---

Yes Elon Musk and his companies have received substantial U.S. government support through tax credits, loans, contracts, and subsidies over the years.

Key Figures & Types of Support

SpaceX

• SpaceX has been awarded around $20billion in federal contracts since 2008, including about $15billion from NASA for missions like ISS crew transport and lunar landers, and $7.6billion from the Department of Defense washingtonpost.com+14gov.capital+14businessinsider.com+14.
• In recent years, it has received between $24billion annually from government agencies .

Tesla

• Received a $465million low-interest loan from the Department of Energy in 2009, which Tesla repaid early in 2013 reuters.com+11businessinsider.com+11gov.capital+11.
• Benefited from billions in state and local incentives:
  
  • $1.3billion in subsidies/tax breaks for Gigafactory Nevada en.wikipedia.org+15businessinsider.com+15sherwood.news+15washingtonpost.com+6edition.cnn.com+6en.wikipedia.org+6.
  • $750million from New York state for the Buffalo solar plant (SolarCity) businessinsider.com+1en.wikipedia.org+1.
  • Around $64million for Giga Texas en.wikipedia.org.
• Tesla has earned over $11billion through federal/state regulatory credit sales (to other automakers) and has passed on approximately $2.8billion in federal EV tax credits to buyers in 2024 sherwood.news+4gov.capital+4washingtonpost.com+4.
• A Washington Post analysis estimates Tesla (and associated ventures) have received over $15billion in federal & state/local support, with $11.4billion from regulatory credits alone businessinsider.com+4influencewatch.org+4foxbusiness.com+4.

Overall Impact

• Combined, Musk's companies have received at least $38billion in total government fundingthrough contracts, loans, tax credits, and subsidiesfrom federal, state, and local levels washingtonpost.com+6gov.capital+6foxbusiness.com+6.
• In 2024 alone, roughly $6.3billion flowed to his companies foxbusiness.com+1washingtonpost.com+1.

Summary
Company
Type of Support
Estimated TotalSpaceX
NASA & DoD contracts, state incentives
$20B+
Tesla
DOE loan, regulatory credits, local subsidies
$15B+
Combined
Federal/state/local support
$38B+

---

Who will be the first big name from R or D who jumps ship and joines the AP?

Random H1Bs who want unbridled immigration into the US do not count.

KingofHazor said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Been over this many times. He has government contracts for providing services. That is not subsidies. But you're just stirring the pot, so I think you know that.

---

Well, the tax credit for purchasing an electric vehicle was a subsidy. Tesla also earned significant revenue by selling regulatory credits to other automakers, an almost 1/2 billion dollar loan from DOE, and all of his companies have received tax credits and incentives from state and local governments.

I agree, though, that government contracts earned through fair competition are not subsidies.

---

Every single large company gets tax credits and incentives from state and local governments to be in an area, that is how the process of site selection works.

There have been electric vehicle subsidies for a while now, which benefited Tesla some for sure and I am glad those are going away, but this whole "Elon is only pissed because he is losing subsidies" distraction is just because he doesn't support Trump now. It's obvious since Musk supported the BBB when he knew it was going to eliminate the break to begin with. In decades of Trump doing business, he has done whatever is best for his businesses, including tax breaks, loans, incentives... any good businessman would do that, but Elon doesn't have the cult of personality to goaltend that Trump has.

I have no delusions that Elon is conservative or that this new party is what I wish the Republican party would be, but sadly he is more fiscally conservative, in action, than Trump and his current iteration of the Republican party.

KingofHazor said:

---

The America Party recently released its platform. It should delight small government types and conservatives:

• Universal basic income
• Carbon taxes
• Responsible spending (what the heck is that, whatever Musk says it is?)
• Sustainable investment (i.e., green energy)
• Invest in AI, robotics, and space (i.e., Musk's favorite pork barrel projects)

The America Party | TheAmericaParty.org

---

I clicked your link and don't see that bullet list. Can you show me where it is?

infinity ag said:

---

Who will be the first big name from R or D who jumps ship and joines the AP?

Random H1Bs who want unbridled immigration into the US do not count.

---

Mike Pence!

Phatbob said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Been over this many times. He has government contracts for providing services. That is not subsidies. But you're just stirring the pot, so I think you know that.

---

Huh? EVs are subsidized in many ways at both the state and federal level, primarily through government tax credits and rebates.

LMCane said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Who will be the first big name from R or D who jumps ship and joines the AP?

Random H1Bs who want unbridled immigration into the US do not count.

---

Mike Pence!

---

Possible. He is washed up though. No impact.
I get the feeling that no one trusts crazy Elon and wants to put their futures in his weirdo hands.

Logos Stick said:

---

KingofHazor said:

---

The America Party recently released its platform. It should delight small government types and conservatives:

• Universal basic income
• Carbon taxes
• Responsible spending (what the heck is that, whatever Musk says it is?)
• Sustainable investment (i.e., green energy)
• Invest in AI, robotics, and space (i.e., Musk's favorite pork barrel projects)

The America Party | TheAmericaParty.org

---

I clicked your link and don't see that bullet list. Can you show me where it is?

---

They're not in a bullet list. I pulled them out of the section of the landing page entitled "Key Pillars".

People who have come out in support of Elon Musk's new America Party:

- Mark Cuban
- Anthony Scaramucci
- Brian Krassenstein
- Thomas Massie
- Mike Pence

That's pretty much all I need to know about Elon Musk's new America Party.

— NotKennyRogers (@NotKennyRogers) July 6, 2025

Dirty_Mike&the_boys said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Been over this many times. He has government contracts for providing services. That is not subsidies. But you're just stirring the pot, so I think you know that.

---

Huh? EVs are subsidized in many ways at both the state and federal level, primarily through government tax credits and rebates.

---

Dealing with particulars, mostly. Yes, there are EV subsidies, but that does not mean his businesses only exist because of them. That is just spin.

You're conflating several different arguments.

Your first argument is that other businesses receive subsidies also. That's true, but simply confirms that Musk's companies are as well.

You next argument is that Trump's argument (that Musk is only pissed because he's losing subsidies) is wrong. You may be right. I have no opinion on that but was only rebutting the argument that Elon receives no subsidies.

KingofHazor said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

KingofHazor said:

---

The America Party recently released its platform. It should delight small government types and conservatives:

• Universal basic income
• Carbon taxes
• Responsible spending (what the heck is that, whatever Musk says it is?)
• Sustainable investment (i.e., green energy)
• Invest in AI, robotics, and space (i.e., Musk's favorite pork barrel projects)

The America Party | TheAmericaParty.org

---

I clicked your link and don't see that bullet list. Can you show me where it is?

---

They're not in a bullet list. I pulled them out of the section of the landing page entitled "Key Pillars".

---

This "sustainable investment" is nebulous. Not sure how you get "green energy" from that.

AI and robotics are the future. If we don't pursue it, other countries will. That is not a negative. This from the BBB:

Significant funding was proposed for research and development, including areas that encompass AI. This includes money for the National Science Foundation (NSF) and Department of Energy (DOE) to support technological innovation.

The BBB aimed to boost STEM education and tech workforce training, which supports AI through a better-trained pipeline of developers and researchers.

Support for semiconductors, quantum computing, and next-gen tech, all of which are closely tied to AI development and deployment.

Investments in AI-driven energy optimization, smart grids, and climate modeling tools.

The bill also included components related to digital equity, algorithmic fairness, and responsible use of data, often framed in the context of AI.

Also, as far as UBI, he's not simply advocating UBI. It says this:

Quote:

---

and contingency pilot projects for Universal Basic Income as AI reshapes work.

---

That is a conversation now that many are having based on the belief that AI is going to decimate jobs. If the worst case plays out, what is the response? During the Great Depression, we did have social programs to ensure people were not homeless and had food to eat.

KingofHazor said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

KingofHazor said:

---

The America Party recently released its platform. It should delight small government types and conservatives:

• Universal basic income
• Carbon taxes
• Responsible spending (what the heck is that, whatever Musk says it is?)
• Sustainable investment (i.e., green energy)
• Invest in AI, robotics, and space (i.e., Musk's favorite pork barrel projects)

The America Party | TheAmericaParty.org

---

I clicked your link and don't see that bullet list. Can you show me where it is?

---

They're not in a bullet list. I pulled them out of the section of the landing page entitled "Key Pillars".

---

For anyone who wants the actual points and not that obviously less than generous summary:

Quote:

---

Fair Economy

Smart growth, small-business empowerment, and tax pathways that reward worknot just wealth.

Balanced Budget

Fiscal policies and reforms that ensure responsible spending, sustainable investment, and long-term economic stability for everyone.

Secure Nation

Strategic self-reliance, selective alliances, and modern defense to keep America safe.

Innovation Economy

Slash red tape, champion entrepreneurship, invest in AI, robotics, and spaceso America always leads the frontier.

Future-Ready Society

Merit-based immigration, STEM-first education, and contingency pilot projects for Universal Basic Income as AI reshapes work.

Free Expression

A Digital Bill of Rights protecting open algorithms, user privacy, and robust debatebecause ideas win.

Abundant Energy

Revenue-neutral carbon fee, next-gen nuclear, and market-driven clean tech instead of endless subsidies.

Space Frontier

Invest in launch tech, lunar logistics, and Mars R&Dunlocking in-orbit industry and space-mining wealthso America leads the next great leap.

---

I don't agree with everything there, but since the Republican Party is now just "anything that Trump says = good" it may be an interesting alternative if he can get any momentum. He already solves one of the main challenges a third party has since he has basically unlimited funding.

Phatbob said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Been over this many times. He has government contracts for providing services. That is not subsidies. But you're just stirring the pot, so I think you know that.

---

huh? EVs are subsidized in many ways at both state and federal levels, primarily through government tax credits and rebates.

Y'all are funny. You're not against spending; you only want spending on your own pet projects and ideas. How are you any different from every Member of Congress? That's exactly how we get humongous omnibus spending bills - we only spend on each Member's pet projects and ideas.

Did you miss this? No one from either party is even loosely attempting to do this:

Quote:

---

Balanced Budget

Fiscal policies and reforms that ensure responsible spending, sustainable investment, and long-term economic stability for everyone.

---

More members of the Musk American Party:

Liz Cheney

Lincoln Project

Adam Kinzinger

Joe Rogan

Tucker Qatarlson

Theo Von

Logos Stick said:

---

Also, as far as UBI, he's not simply advocating UBI. It says this:

Quote:

---

and contingency pilot projects for Universal Basic Income as AI reshapes work.

---

That is a conversation now that many are having based on the belief that AI is going to decimate jobs. If the worst case plays out, what is the response? During the Great Depression, we did have social programs to ensure people were not homeless and had food to eat.

---

Seems like maybe the American Party is adopting the Jugo Chavez strategy of "we are a rich nation and must distribute the wealth from one area to another".

Coming out of the Great Depression, we had work programs like the CCC that put young, able-bodied men to work, fed them, housed them, and sent their pay back home. This was part of FDR's New Deal.

So is Elon a socialist now? And disgruntled Rs are advocating for socialism?

I thought Elon wants to save government funding but most of his pillars are more like government handout pillows.

The chicken littling over debt and AI has caused the lemmings to go running for Savior Elon. Cannot decide if its funny, sad or both.

KingofHazor said:

---

Y'all are funny. You're not against spending; you only want spending on your own pet projects and ideas. How are you any different from every Member of Congress? That's exactly how we get humongous omnibus spending bills - we only spend on each Member's pet projects and ideas.

---

Ah ok, so you have an issue with any spending. Fair enough. But I'm not sure what we do about mass unemployment, assuming AI does what many are claiming it will do.

annie88 said:

---

People who have come out in support of Elon Musk's new America Party:

- Mark Cuban
- Anthony Scaramucci
- Brian Krassenstein
- Thomas Massie
- Mike Pence

That's pretty much all I need to know about Elon Musk's new America Party.

— NotKennyRogers (@NotKennyRogers) July 6, 2025

---

And Vijay.

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Actually,
1. He built his business on subsidies. Zero percent chance electric cars would have made it without subsidies.
2. Right now,. he is AGAINST government subsidies. Since he's established and successful, subsidies only help his competition.

Science Denier said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Actually,
1. He built his business on subsidies. Zero percent chance electric cars would have made it without subsidies.
2. Right now,. he is AGAINST government subsidies. Since he's established and successful, subsidies only help his competition.

---

Looks like Elon is being exposed as yettanudder crook.

All these CEO types are. They just keep getting exposed every day.

Science Denier said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Actually,
1. He built his business on subsidies. Zero percent chance electric cars would have made it without subsidies.
2. Right now,. he is AGAINST government subsidies. Since he's established and successful, subsidies only help his competition.

---

This is wrong and dumb. When elon says he's against subsidies, there's a caveat - when he says no one should receive subsidies, he's referring to the fact that the big 3 us automakers receive billions in subsidies as well. In effect, he's saying, if you're going to cut subsidies, cut them for everyone which he knows will never happen.

Farmer_J said:

---

Science Denier said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

rgag12 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

Musk is just trolling everyone.

---

Musk is autistic and this is his personality. No filters or controls, ever. He should be thankful he has the support group that he has around him, and government subsidies, for getting him as far as he has.

Everyone and their dog knew for a long time that this budget bill in whatever form was going to increase our debt by a lot. He only got mad when his inner circle informed him that this is going to put most of his business that depend on government subsidies on life support.

---

I think you are right above.

I wasn't aware that his business survived on government subsidies, that came out just recently after Trump mentioned it.

Businesses must survive on their own, not on taxpayer money. Musk gets rich on our backs.

---

Actually,
1. He built his business on subsidies. Zero percent chance electric cars would have made it without subsidies.
2. Right now,. he is AGAINST government subsidies. Since he's established and successful, subsidies only help his competition.

---

This is wrong and dumb. When elon says he's against subsidies, there's a caveat - when he says no one should receive subsidies, he's referring to the fact that the big 3 us automakers receive billions in subsidies as well. In effect, he's saying, if you're going to cut subsidies, cut them for everyone which he knows will never happen.

---

lYou said the same thing I said. He's now against subsidies.

No he's not against subsidies. Try reading that slower.

Farmer_J said:

---

No he's not against subsidies. Try reading that slower.

---

Well, here is what you said

Quote:

---

In effect, he's saying, if you're going to cut subsidies, cut them for everyone which he knows will never happen.

---

Lol, you think the government would cut subsidies for just Tesla and not anyone else? That is so dumb I didn't even think that was ever an option.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-list-government-subsidies-tesla-billions-spacex-solarcity-2021-12

Quote:

---

just delete all subsidies from the trillion dollar infrastructure bill

---

Here is another link. And this was before the Trump spat.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/02/elon-musk-tesla-ev-subsidies-donald-trump-flip-flop/

Quote:

---

"Take away the subsidies," Musk wrote on X, another of his companies, in July. "It will only help Tesla."

---

infinity ag said:

---

annie88 said:

---

People who have come out in support of Elon Musk's new America Party:

- Mark Cuban
- Anthony Scaramucci
- Brian Krassenstein
- Thomas Massie
- Mike Pence

That's pretty much all I need to know about Elon Musk's new America Party.

— NotKennyRogers (@NotKennyRogers) July 6, 2025

---

And Vijay.

---

Saar please vote America Party. It's not Indian Party saar.

So.... where is Musk with his H1B Party?
Is it even a real thing?

He's back on Epstein.

I like Musk, appreciate what he has accomplished, admire his work on SpaceX, think he will always be one of the most influential figures in the 21st century and maybe in history of the modern human era.

But he suffers from hysteria and people would be keen to keep that in mind concerning his X posting.