richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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jamey said:

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A vote for Ds or Rs is a vote for hanging our albatross of debt around the neck of our kids and grandkids
At least a vote for a 3rd party gives them a non zero chance
We know it's garunteed under the Rs or Ds

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I disagree completely. IMHO if these 3rd party conservative advocates spent even half their efforts in moving the Republicans more conservative our children might have a chance.
The possibility of a conservative 3rd party gaining a plurality nationally is zero.

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Again, it's been tried for decades. To no avail. More and more liberal candidates get pushed on us.
GOP is just a tad to the right of the Dems, fiscally. Maybe half a tad.

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Seems there is a generational shift in the demographics of the Republican Party. So the Republican Party can change its voting base.

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Yeah, more blacks and browns. Racial demographics are changing, yet as shown by the idiotic fervor for BuildBackBetter2 not much in the intellectual horsepower or fiscally conservative demographic has bettered.

BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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lobopride said:

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I blame the citizenry more than the politicians. Joe Shmo shouldn't vote if he doesn't have basic math skills to know this country is headed for a ditch unless we cut up the credit cards and we keep spending more and more.

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The same citizenry that, almost totally...percentage-wise...is publicly educated?


Socialism, such as public schooling, leads to more socialism DUE TO public schooling.

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Correct. Which Party is actively working to change that?

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Neither.

Not real change. They're just shuffling the deck. Granted, in a more worthy direction, but still....shuffling. Nobody has moved to privatization, which is what's needed.

Again, fiscally, there is little difference between the two.

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The Republican Party is actively trying to change the educational system. Even to the extent of eliminating the primary reason our educational system is failing, the Department of Education.
Across the country Republican Party politicians are actively pushing to eliminate the social Justice crap being pushed by the Democratic Party and returning to traditional teaching of math, science, reading and history.
The Republican Party is advocating for school choice with the expand result of increasing and improving our children's education.
The Democratic Party leadership actively opposes all these attempts.

BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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jamey said:

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A vote for Ds or Rs is a vote for hanging our albatross of debt around the neck of our kids and grandkids
At least a vote for a 3rd party gives them a non zero chance
We know it's garunteed under the Rs or Ds

---

I disagree completely. IMHO if these 3rd party conservative advocates spent even half their efforts in moving the Republicans more conservative our children might have a chance.
The possibility of a conservative 3rd party gaining a plurality nationally is zero.

---

Again, it's been tried for decades. To no avail. More and more liberal candidates get pushed on us.
GOP is just a tad to the right of the Dems, fiscally. Maybe half a tad.

---

Seems there is a generational shift in the demographics of the Republican Party. So the Republican Party can change its voting base.

---

Yeah, more blacks and browns. Racial demographics are changing, yet as shown by the idiotic fervor for BuildBackBetter2 not much in the intellectual horsepower or fiscally conservative demographic has bettered.

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Point being change is possible which many on this thread say change is impossible.

richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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lobopride said:

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I blame the citizenry more than the politicians. Joe Shmo shouldn't vote if he doesn't have basic math skills to know this country is headed for a ditch unless we cut up the credit cards and we keep spending more and more.

---

The same citizenry that, almost totally...percentage-wise...is publicly educated?


Socialism, such as public schooling, leads to more socialism DUE TO public schooling.

---

Correct. Which Party is actively working to change that?

---

Neither.

Not real change. They're just shuffling the deck. Granted, in a more worthy direction, but still....shuffling. Nobody has moved to privatization, which is what's needed.

Again, fiscally, there is little difference between the two.

---

The Republican Party is actively trying to change the educational system. Even to the extent of eliminating the primary reason our educational system is failing, the Department of Education.
Across the country Republican Party politicians are actively pushing to eliminate the social Justice crap being pushed by the Democratic Party and returning to traditional teaching of math, science, reading and history.
The Republican Party is advocating for school choice with the expand result of increasing and improving our children's education.
The Democratic Party leadership actively opposes all these attempts.

---

Cool, and I support that, but all of that will be for naught when we can't afford to even live because the fiscal liberals AND the Democrats have spent us into Bolivian.

Again....fiscally...there is very little to differentiate the two.

And trying to make the GOP actually adhere to their espoused tenets has failed drastically, across the board.

pdc093 said:

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whatever the icon might be for a new party, they better paint it alphabet colors and they'll pick up the low information voters easily

BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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lobopride said:

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I blame the citizenry more than the politicians. Joe Shmo shouldn't vote if he doesn't have basic math skills to know this country is headed for a ditch unless we cut up the credit cards and we keep spending more and more.

---

The same citizenry that, almost totally...percentage-wise...is publicly educated?


Socialism, such as public schooling, leads to more socialism DUE TO public schooling.

---

Correct. Which Party is actively working to change that?

---

Neither.

Not real change. They're just shuffling the deck. Granted, in a more worthy direction, but still....shuffling. Nobody has moved to privatization, which is what's needed.

Again, fiscally, there is little difference between the two.

---

The Republican Party is actively trying to change the educational system. Even to the extent of eliminating the primary reason our educational system is failing, the Department of Education.
Across the country Republican Party politicians are actively pushing to eliminate the social Justice crap being pushed by the Democratic Party and returning to traditional teaching of math, science, reading and history.
The Republican Party is advocating for school choice with the expand result of increasing and improving our children's education.
The Democratic Party leadership actively opposes all these attempts.

---

Cool, and I support that, but all of that will be for naught when we can't afford to even live because the fiscal liberals AND the Democrats have spent us into Bolivian.

Again....fiscally...there is very little to differentiate the two.

And trying to make the GOP actually adhere to their espoused tenets has failed drastically, across the board.

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You could be right but IMHO a 3rd party will only exasperate the problem. We just disagree at this moment.

Quote:

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Again, it's been tried for decades. To no avail.

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You keep saying that. What evidence do you have? What efforts have been made in the universities, in the media, and at grass roots level R politics?

Name one local candidate who's been turned out for voting for a spending bill that benefits the locality.

Folks, you don't want to hear it but unless we change our current system away from First Past the Post then the Spoiler Effect means that 3rd parties are never going to be viable and only serve to siphon away votes from a major party ensuring victory for the other major party.

I know this forum hates ranked choice voting but it's the only way to safely grow a viable libertarian/fiscally conservative third party without handing Dems a decade plus of total control in which they will dissolve all parties but their own

halfastros81 said:

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Agree with this. Pull the R party toward fiscal competence is the better approach.

I will say this, getting rid of incumbent RINO's via selected 3rd party real conservatives that can win would indeed pull the party fiscally right but trying to do so on a national basis will not have the intended outcome.

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The R party has been moving in wrong direction for decades. Its wasted time trying to pull fiscally conservative votes out of the Rs and we are running out of time. All the Rs have done is lie and pretend all these years. The Rs had their chance and they've proven themselves beyond the shadow of a doubt, they're fiscally incompetent

Maroon Dawn said:

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Folks, you don't want to hear it but unless we change our current system away from First Past the Post then the Spoiler Effect means that 3rd parties are never going to be viable and only serve to siphon away votes from a major party ensuring victory for the other major party.

I know this forum hates ranked choice voting but it's the only way to safely grow a viable libertarian/fiscally conservative third party without handing Dems a decade plus of total control in which they will dissolve all parties but their own

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Ranked choice voting solves all of these problems when you don't eliminate the last place vote getters each round but instead start adding second choice votes.

If most Ds voted D first then third party second, and most Rs voted R first then third party second. And neither D nor R got a majority the first round, it is likely the third party could make a run at majority when counting second choice votes.

It needs a smarter populace though and based on the past several decades of elections and rah rah for big gov boondoggles, it's a tough ask.

Maroon Dawn said:

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Folks, you don't want to hear it but unless we change our current system away from First Past the Post then the Spoiler Effect means that 3rd parties are never going to be viable and only serve to siphon away votes from a major party ensuring victory for the other major party.

I know this forum hates ranked choice voting but it's the only way to safely grow a viable libertarian/fiscally conservative third party without handing Dems a decade plus of total control in which they will dissolve all parties but their own

---

Ranked choice voting gets people like Murkowski and Mamdani elected. It is no magic bullet for 3d parties.

Poll ended woth 1.25 million votes

65% Yes for the America Party, 35% no

By a factor of 2 to 1, you want a new political party and you shall have it!

When it comes to bankrupting our country with waste & graft, we live in a one-party system, not a democracy.

Today, the America Party is formed to give you back your freedom. https://t.co/9K8AD04QQN

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 5, 2025

I don't mind breaking this 2-party system, but it would require support from both sides. Otherwise, forming a 3rd party is futile effort and waste of time.

So the guy that has called for a carbon tax in order to fight "climate change" and required registration of all AR-15's is the future of "true conservatism" and the building of a new "true conservative" party.

I like the idea, as long as he sticks to what is says and is just trying to win some purple votes in the house and the senate. I think he knows that putting a presidential candidate out there will just allow a far left wacko like Newsome a chance in the upcoming election.

Someone has to have some accountability to reduce the debt or we are going to be dealing in the equivalent of pesos in a decade.

jamey said:

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Poll ended woth 1.25 million votes

65% Yes for the America Party, 35% no

By a factor of 2 to 1, you want a new political party and you shall have it!

When it comes to bankrupting our country with waste & graft, we live in a one-party system, not a democracy.

Today, the America Party is formed to give you back your freedom. https://t.co/9K8AD04QQN

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 5, 2025

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Huge number of those votes from Democrats who know it helps them win elections.

You've already admitted you're fine if the Democrats gain complete control of the country.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

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I don't mind breaking this 2-party system, but it would require support from both sides. Otherwise, forming a 3rd party is futile effort and waste of time.

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It either works and we have a non zero chance at avoiding financial catastrophe


Or it's financial catastrophe


I don't see any other rationale outcomes

Theres plenty of evidence all around the world of what happens to countries that dont keep their Financials in order


We also have not seen what the world looks like((China, Russia, Iran..etc) with a weakened US unable to help calm international waters. I suspect it's really bad

Rapier108 said:

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jamey said:

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Poll ended woth 1.25 million votes

65% Yes for the America Party, 35% no

By a factor of 2 to 1, you want a new political party and you shall have it!

When it comes to bankrupting our country with waste & graft, we live in a one-party system, not a democracy.

Today, the America Party is formed to give you back your freedom. https://t.co/9K8AD04QQN

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 5, 2025

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Huge number of those votes from Democrats who know it helps them win elections.

You've already admitted you're fine if the Democrats gain complete control of the country.

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No, not fine. Its just the same end result as Rs in control

Im not fine with Rs or Ds in control because it's certain financial catastrophe.

Rapier108 said:

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jamey said:

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Poll ended woth 1.25 million votes

65% Yes for the America Party, 35% no

By a factor of 2 to 1, you want a new political party and you shall have it!

When it comes to bankrupting our country with waste & graft, we live in a one-party system, not a democracy.

Today, the America Party is formed to give you back your freedom. https://t.co/9K8AD04QQN

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 5, 2025

---

Huge number of those votes from Democrats who know it helps them win elections.

You've already admitted you're fine if the Democrats gain complete control of the country.

---

If you believe that Democrats voting in this poll are thinking that many moves ahead, then you have a higher opinion of a twitter user than I.

Another day another "muh debt ceilings falling, muh debt ceilings falling" chicken little threads.

Yes government spending needs to be cut, yes we should operate with a budget and that budget should be balanced.

But thinking a 3rd party is going to rise up and capture a voting block over a single issue is absurd and ignores all aspects and history of politics and political parties in this Country.

If this all concerns you this much, what are you doing at the local level to reign in municipal budgets? Have you written your school board member or councilperson and asked them to reject all funding that comes from the feds?

Oher than moaning and groaning on f16 and worshipping Rand-Massie, what are you actually doing to make a change?

stick95 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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jamey said:

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Poll ended woth 1.25 million votes

65% Yes for the America Party, 35% no

By a factor of 2 to 1, you want a new political party and you shall have it!

When it comes to bankrupting our country with waste & graft, we live in a one-party system, not a democracy.

Today, the America Party is formed to give you back your freedom. https://t.co/9K8AD04QQN

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 5, 2025

---

Huge number of those votes from Democrats who know it helps them win elections.

You've already admitted you're fine if the Democrats gain complete control of the country.

---

If you believe that Democrats voting in this poll are thinking that many moves ahead, then you have a higher opinion of a twitter user than I.

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Nah, That post reads like MAGA cope and Rapier is smarter than that.

flown-the-coop said:

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Another day another "muh debt ceilings falling, muh debt ceilings falling" chicken little threads.

Yes government spending needs to be cut, yes we should operate with a budget and that budget should be balanced.

But thinking a 3rd party is going to rise up and capture a voting block over a single issue is absurd and ignores all aspects and history of politics and political parties in this Country.

If this all concerns you this much, what are you doing at the local level to reign in municipal budgets? Have you written your school board member or councilperson and asked them to reject all funding that comes from the feds?

Oher than moaning and groaning on f16 and worshipping Rand-Massie, what are you actually doing to make a change?

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What the hell have you done other than support the same old status quo like a ****ing sucker? I bet you took your shot and masked your kid too during Covid.

Pretending the history of politics hasn't changed with social media and podcasters ignores current reality.


Musk knows these podcasters, owns one of the biggest social media companies and has 400 billion

Don't think it would ever happen.

jamey said:

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Pretending the history of politics hasn't changed with social media and podcasters ignores current reality.


Musk knows these podcasters, owns one of the biggest social media companies and has 400 billion

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Great, have him prove the concept in Texas and rid of us blue RINOs and Dems that run the Texas currently.

Better yet, let's see if he can manage Starbase, TX politics first.

I love some Elon, but the worship of him and what he is capable of in regards to politics is just a bit bizarre. Like really bizarre.

When the next squirrel runs in front of Elon and he takes great notice of it, what happens to the American party?

And he is worth $400 billion, but that is not sitting in cash.

The practicalities of politics may have changed, but the general principles and cycles have not. Suggest reading up on geopolitical history and then maybe finding some long experienced experts to follow that discusses these things.

flown-the-coop said:

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jamey said:

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Pretending the history of politics hasn't changed with social media and podcasters ignores current reality.


Musk knows these podcasters, owns one of the biggest social media companies and has 400 billion

---

Great, have him prove the concept in Texas and rid of us blue RINOs and Dems that run the Texas currently.

Better yet, let's see if he can manage Starbase, TX politics first.

I love some Elon, but the worship of him and what he is capable of in regards to politics is just a bit bizarre. Like really bizarre.

When the next squirrel runs in front of Elon and he takes great notice of it, what happens to the American party?

And he is worth $400 billion, but that is not sitting in cash.

The practicalities of politics may have changed, but the general principles and cycles have not. Suggest reading up on geopolitical history and then maybe finding some long experienced experts to follow that discusses these things.

---

Still a better chance than the zero % chance of avoiding financial catastrophe with Rs or Ds

Ive given Rs most of my votes for a couple decades. They always lie and pretend to be fiscal conservatives


Im done with them and I have every reason to be done with them. You don't seem to get that. This isnt a new thing, it's very old

Brother Shamus said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Another day another "muh debt ceilings falling, muh debt ceilings falling" chicken little threads.

Yes government spending needs to be cut, yes we should operate with a budget and that budget should be balanced.

But thinking a 3rd party is going to rise up and capture a voting block over a single issue is absurd and ignores all aspects and history of politics and political parties in this Country.

If this all concerns you this much, what are you doing at the local level to reign in municipal budgets? Have you written your school board member or councilperson and asked them to reject all funding that comes from the feds?

Oher than moaning and groaning on f16 and worshipping Rand-Massie, what are you actually doing to make a change?

---

What the hell have you done other than support the same old status quo like a ****ing sucker? I bet you took your shot and masked your kid too during Covid.

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Who are you talking about?

I did take the jab when first offered as I am a Type 1 diabetic and had elderly parents and inlaws to look after. My son wore a mask during fall of 2020 as the school in Texas suburbia required it, but I never wore one and got asked to leave a national monument in 2022 over the issue.

Now that your personal attack has fallen flat, is there anything you would like to discuss on my post?

I have reported fraud and abuse in government programs I have worked with. I have spoken at city council meetings regarding how money is being spent and I work with our state programs to find cost cutting measures so that the dollars can be used more efficiently to help Texans.

And I come on TexAgs and speak honestly about my opinions and experience with government funding and government contracting, even though it becomes a punch line for folks just wanting to throw stones rather than offer solutions.

I am advising that a single issue 3rd party is a failure to launch. Even a party that too heavily focuses on one issue can have that hung around their neck for multiple cycles. See "conservatives" and the abortion issue. The only thing that finally sidelined it is sending it back to the States but they may have still cost Rs in the 2022 midterms.

You dont have to agree with me, but you don't need to attack as you did. Shamus on you.

jamey said:

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Still a better chance than the zero % chance of avoiding financial catastrophe with Rs or Ds

Ive given Rs most of my votes for a couple decades. They always lie and pretend to be fiscal conservatives


Im done with them

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Yet you don't seem that sure of moving on...

FREEDOOOOOOM

MUSK : "TODAY, THE AMERICA PARTY IS FORMED TO GIVE YOU BACK YOUR FREEDOM"

— *Walter Bloomberg (@DeItaone) July 5, 2025

None of this matters. The train has no brakes. It keeps picking up speed no matter who is in charge until something derails it.

txags92 said:

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Picard said:

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The America Party - Founded by a guy born in South Africa

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All the candidates will be Indians with H1B visas.

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Hahaha

Heineken-Ashi said:

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None of this matters. The train has no brakes. It keeps picking up speed no matter who is in charge until something derails it.

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We are allowed to vote against the train derailing



We just need more people to be aware it's coming and a party willing to fix serious issues.

Elon has the money and connections, even the social media to let these things play out

I want a better alternative than the two party system as much or more than anyone, but expect a lot of R seats to flip D after the Ds run some American Party candidates just to siphon off votes.

Has Elon derailed the Trump Train?