lobopride said:

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I blame the citizenry more than the politicians. Joe Shmo shouldn't vote if he doesn't have basic math skills to know this country is headed for a ditch unless we cut up the credit cards and we keep spending more and more.

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The same citizenry that, almost totally...percentage-wise...is publicly educated?


Socialism, such as public schooling, leads to more socialism DUE TO public schooling.

As someone who wasted a lot of time in the world of 3rd party politics…. This whole thing by Elon is dumb and a complete waste of time.

Ross Perot was much more serious about this and he got nowhere. The way our system and laws are setup, there is no future in this silliness.

Never-mind the fact that running a campaign primarily on cutting spending and balancing the budget is not going to win any national election.

The biggest reason this will never work is you only have 10% or so of the public that cares about the debt.

Of those you only have half that would be willing to have legit spending restraint.


Of those you only have half that understand that those cuts would actually be a positive for people and that government spending often does more harm than good

That's not much of a base.

A great example is the recent discussion to sell off some tiny fraction of government land. Hysteria set in before rational people could even discuss the details.

I don't mind anyone breaking the 2 party system we have, but it would need to pull from both sides, otherwise it is political suicide (for conservatives).

Personally, I think we only get R's and D's to the bitter end of this experiment. And, in light of the astronomical debt, I'd say we may not have to worry about them much longer.

In what way is Trump above or past all this

Cyprian said:

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I don't mind anyone breaking the 2 party system we have, but it would need to pull from both sides, otherwise it is political suicide (for conservatives).

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Maybe you are and maybe you aren't somewhat hinting at the Libertarian Party. Maximum social liberty and freedom for the D's and maximum fiscal responsibility and free markets for the R's. Minimal government and taxes for everyone.

A little something for everyone...?

The fringy left and right will not be happy with any of that. The left will want somebody to carry their lazy asses and the right will object on anything that smells morally grey.

Over 1 million votes, 64% say yes. make the Amarica Party happen



This is what we need. Don't need the majority or POTUS. Just enough seats at the table to have a big say so

One way to execute on this would be to laser-focus on just 2 or 3 Senate seats and 8 to 10 House districts.

Given the razor-thin legislative margins, that would be enough to serve as the deciding vote on contentious laws, ensuring that they serve the true will of the people.

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) July 4, 2025

Trying to create a 3rd party of fiscal conservatives to compete nationwide is a bad idea but challenging specific seats is a good idea

Elon creating The American Party would be the biggest middle finger to the Republicans. There's no way you can convince me that a 3rd party does anything other than split the vote in the favor of the dems.

zephyr88 said:

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Elon creating The American Party would be the biggest middle finger to the Republicans. There's no way you can convince me that a 3rd party does anything other than split the vote in the favor of the dems.

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Only if the people that claim to be conservatives don't vote for the actual conservative this party might put forth in lieu of the typical liberals the GOP foists upon us.

If it's

R - liberal, like usual
D - progressive
A - conservative

Then anyone currently voting R, that claims to be a conservative, should vote for the A candidate.

Unfortunately, most voters for the GOP aren't conservative.

Well you do kinda have to get enough votes to win to have any impact . The right answer imo is to teach as many of those R voters that aren't fiscally conservative why it's muy importante to vote for candidates that are.

halfastros81 said:

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Well you do kinda have to get enough votes to win to have any impact . The right answer imo is to teach as many of those R voters that aren't fiscally conservative why it's muy importante to vote for candidates that are.

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Been tried for decades and we keep getting more and more liberal candidates. No thanks.

Tired of trying to teach tards not to be tards.

I understand and agree with your sentiment but when the alternative is a bat**** crazy liberal commie you have to try to get the least bad candidates elected.

It's not ALL about just spending either. What the spending is for also matters.

jamey said:

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A vote for Ds or Rs is a vote for hanging our albatross of debt around the neck of our kids and grandkids


At least a vote for a 3rd party gives them a non zero chance

We know it's garunteed under the Rs or Ds

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I disagree completely. IMHO if these 3rd party conservative advocates spent even half their efforts in moving the Republicans more conservative our children might have a chance.
The possibility of a conservative 3rd party gaining a plurality nationally is zero.

richardag said:

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jamey said:

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A vote for Ds or Rs is a vote for hanging our albatross of debt around the neck of our kids and grandkids


At least a vote for a 3rd party gives them a non zero chance

We know it's garunteed under the Rs or Ds

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I disagree completely. IMHO if these 3rd party conservative advocates spent even half their efforts in moving the Republicans more conservative our children might have a chance.
The possibility of a conservative 3rd party gaining a plurality nationally is zero.

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Again, it's been tried for decades. To no avail. More and more liberal candidates get pushed on us.

GOP is just a tad to the right of the Dems, fiscally. Maybe half a tad.

TexAgs91 said:

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jamey said:

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I think with Musks funding, social media and podcasts who are friends of Musk getting the word out, The America Party can take some seats...

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... away from republicans while leaving democrat seats untouched

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They would caucus with the Rs, but they would not support garbage like the BBB. The fiscal libs in the R party would be forced to compromise.

I've voted, Libertarian Party in the last three National / Presidential elections. I had zero thoughts about "winning", but couldn't stand the thought of voting for either of the other candidates. If there was a viable party that was organized and willing to try and make a difference - I think it would have a chance to grow.

Agree with this. Pull the R party toward fiscal competence is the better approach.

I will say this, getting rid of incumbent RINO's via selected 3rd party real conservatives that can win would indeed pull the party fiscally right but trying to do so on a national basis will not have the intended outcome.

n/m

Republicans are stupid. Creating a 3rd party puts democrats in power.

1. They win any close election die to cheating
2. Democrats vote for a candidate over one issue
3. Republicans ***** over one issue.

But I get Elon's point. He put his company at grave risk and himself in real danger to find waste and the Republicans in Congress told him to **** off. They totally ignored everything g he did.

This would come at a time where Republicans are making huge strides. He should focus his money on exposing and fixing voter fraud. Get rid of that and Republicans would gain enough where they could get much better bills passed.

jamey said:

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KingofHazor said:

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People, who've never done a single thing in politics other than vote, want the American Party because they know that it will magically accomplish all that they want.

Supporters of the American Party are delusional at the highest level. Change at a national scale takes hard work, and decades of it.

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I believe Musk, some R congressman amd even Trump(accidentally) has awoken an awareness of our fiscal delusion
Today's world of politics is nothing like it was even 19 years ago. Trump himself saw the power of social media, podcasts..etc.
A third party doesn't need POTUS or even a majority. Just enough seats to affect change

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This would be nice except 3rd party politicians often vote against a Republican President and the Republican platform with the end result the Democratic platform becomes adopted.
If third party politicians would argue for fiscal responsibility but join with Republicans in voting in congress there would be a small chance, but it isn't happening.
edit to correct my statement

Competition is good for everything except politics

halfastros81 said:

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Agree with this. Pull the R party toward fiscal competence is the better approach.

I will say this, getting rid of incumbent RINO's via selected 3rd party real conservatives that can win would indeed pull the party fiscally right but trying to do so on a national basis will not have the intended outcome.

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We elected Ted Cruz as a US Senator, he is ****ing awesome, yet when he ran ...."he looks weird", " he sounds too preachy", etc. More worry about looks and not his intellectual prowess or political ideology.

Voters, in both majors, are ruhtards.

Again, "pulling the GOP to the right" has been tried. Hell, on this supposedly conservative site, when an actual conservative figuratively raises their hand in a political conversation in congress, you get a bunch of humbugs opining on how THAT person is the RiNO and not the liberals putting forth big spending, idiotic policy.

jamey said:

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Rapier108 said:

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jamey said:

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KingofHazor said:

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People, who've never done a single thing in politics other than vote, want the American Party because they know that it will magically accomplish all that they want.

Supporters of the American Party are delusional at the highest level. Change at a national scale takes hard work, and decades of it.

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I believe Musk, some R congressman amd even Trump(accidentally) has awoken an awareness of our fiscal delusion
Today's world of politics is nothing like it was even 19 years ago. Trump himself saw the power of social media, podcasts..etc.
A third party doesn't need POTUS or even a majority. Just enough seats to affect change

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Third parties don't win seats except it rare, fluke circumstances.
They simply siphon off votes from either the Democrats or Republicans, giving the other party the ability to win a seat they otherwise had no chance to win.

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Oh well, Im not voting to hang our financial albatross around my kids and grand kids neck

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Thus guaranteeing a larger albatross with absolutely no chance of fiscal responsibility.

Dan Scott said:

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Competition is good for everything except politics

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Prisoners Dilemma. Too much at stake.

Tea Party said:

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Rapier108 said:

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jamey said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Eso si, Que es said:

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I can tell you results before anyone votes.
90:10
But the end result of this 3rd party would be dems win all national elections in perpetuity as MAGA (30%) votes R, Dems (50%) vote D, and 20% of current R vote moves to whatever this is.
I am all for a viable 3rd option but it can't be the fiscal conservatives leaving the social conservatives which hand the progressive idiots full control of everything.

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They don't care.
They would rather give the Democrats power in perpetuity so they can feel better about themselves and virtue signal online. Then they'll whine that it is everyone else's fault.

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That's a a huge assumption.
You assume I see a damn bit of meaningful difference between your team and the democrats. Some are far too into the entertainment and your team vs my team BS

Im voting against fiscal catastrophe. That means no R or D votes. If it means Ds win seats, it doesn't change the end game so what's it matter

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And there it is. Anyone with that attitude isn't worth even having a discussion with.
At best you're a liberal pretending; or exactly what I described above at worst.

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Ds would only win seats because of people like you who would rather vote GOP and keep doing the same thing we've done for decades. Once you realize your plan when extended over a long timeline is destined to fail the third party, now, has the opportunity to become the future second party.
Or at worst, the GOP realizes its existence is being threatened so it makes changes to break from the uniparty dance.

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Change is most definitely possible. The demographics of the Republican Party has change dramatically in the last 8 years. Now the emphasis needs to shift towards fiscal responsibility.
No third party will effect changes only guarantee dominance of the Democratic Party.

So given that a significant % of the voters are not fiscally aware or educated , what's your best solution? A) Continue to Try to educate and influence them and get more fiscal conservatives in office or b) throw the baby out with the bath water and let the commies win and try to rebuild from the inevitable ashes. I feel like those are the 2 choices.

jamey said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Eso si, Que es said:

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I can tell you results before anyone votes.
90:10
But the end result of this 3rd party would be dems win all national elections in perpetuity as MAGA (30%) votes R, Dems (50%) vote D, and 20% of current R vote moves to whatever this is.
I am all for a viable 3rd option but it can't be the fiscal conservatives leaving the social conservatives which hand the progressive idiots full control of everything.

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They don't care.
They would rather give the Democrats power in perpetuity so they can feel better about themselves and virtue signal online. Then they'll whine that it is everyone else's fault.

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That's a a huge assumption.
You assume I see a damn bit of meaningful difference between your team and the democrats. Some are far too into the entertainment and your team vs my team BS
Im voting against fiscal catastrophe. That means no R or D votes. If it means Ds win seats, it doesn't change the end game so what's it matter

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No meaningful difference between the Democratic Party and Republican Party?
These seem extremely meaningful to me

• Open borders
• Defund the police
• DAs releasing violent criminals back into the streets by not requiring meaningful bonds before trial
• Curtailing 2nd amendment rights
• Using the full force of the federal government to censor opposition.
• Enlisting the federal agencies to harass and arrest people who do not follow their demands.
• Using the IRS to harass political opposition by threatening to remove and in some cases removing nonprofit status
• Using NGOs to fund terrorist organizations, fund nonsensical policies in foreign countries.
• Using the federal court system to undermine the tenets of the Constitution.

Anyone considering voting for any Democratic candidate at any level of government needs to immediately reconsider their voting preferences.

jamey said:

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BigRobSA said:

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KingofHazor said:

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Supporters of the American Party are delusional at the highest level. Change at a national scale takes hard work, and decades of it.

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And yet, over the last several decades of trying to bring the GOP to the right, they've gone further to the left. Hell, the de facto head of the party is a fiscal liberal and the BuildBackBetter2 bill just was pushed, and passed.
Now, with the two parties you have the liberals and the Democrats (progressives). We're ****ed .

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Exactly. The Rs have a few things worth supporting but in the grand scheme of things, it requires a vote for fiscal disaster.
The Rs just aren't worth it anymore. The choice with Ds and Rs is now death(D), or cake and death (R).

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It's worth it to me as I could not face any of the family members of those citizens murdered, sexually assaulted, pimped out for sex, robbed, killed by overdoses of illicit drugs by illegal aliens the Democratic Party not only endorsed but through NGOs/UN financed with our tax dollars.

halfastros81 said:

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So given that a significant % of the voters are not fiscally aware or educated , what's your best solution? A) Continue to Try to educate and influence them and get more fiscal conservatives in office or b) throw the baby out with the bath water and let the commies win and try to rebuild from the inevitable ashes. I feel like those are the 2 choices.

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I'm fine with B now.

Maybe THAT will teach the morons on how to properly rebuild.

Fiscally, there is little difference between the two major parties.

BigRobSA said:

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lobopride said:

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I blame the citizenry more than the politicians. Joe Shmo shouldn't vote if he doesn't have basic math skills to know this country is headed for a ditch unless we cut up the credit cards and we keep spending more and more.

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The same citizenry that, almost totally...percentage-wise...is publicly educated?


Socialism, such as public schooling, leads to more socialism DUE TO public schooling.

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Correct. Which Party is actively working to change that?

richardag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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lobopride said:

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I blame the citizenry more than the politicians. Joe Shmo shouldn't vote if he doesn't have basic math skills to know this country is headed for a ditch unless we cut up the credit cards and we keep spending more and more.

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The same citizenry that, almost totally...percentage-wise...is publicly educated?


Socialism, such as public schooling, leads to more socialism DUE TO public schooling.

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Correct. Which Party is actively working to change that?

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Neither.

Not real change. They're just shuffling the deck. Granted, in a more worthy direction, but still....shuffling. Nobody has moved to privatization, which is what's needed.

Again, fiscally, there is little difference between the two.

BigRobSA said:

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richardag said:

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jamey said:

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A vote for Ds or Rs is a vote for hanging our albatross of debt around the neck of our kids and grandkids
At least a vote for a 3rd party gives them a non zero chance
We know it's garunteed under the Rs or Ds

---

I disagree completely. IMHO if these 3rd party conservative advocates spent even half their efforts in moving the Republicans more conservative our children might have a chance.
The possibility of a conservative 3rd party gaining a plurality nationally is zero.

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Again, it's been tried for decades. To no avail. More and more liberal candidates get pushed on us.
GOP is just a tad to the right of the Dems, fiscally. Maybe half a tad.

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Seems there is a generational shift in the demographics of the Republican Party. So the Republican Party can change its voting base.

halfastros81 said:

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Agree with this. Pull the R party toward fiscal competence is the better approach.

I will say this, getting rid of incumbent RINO's via selected 3rd party real conservatives that can win would indeed pull the party fiscally right but trying to do so on a national basis will not have the intended outcome.

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Agreed if the 3rd party Politicians swallow their pride to vote for key Republican platforms. Seems that has never happened so I am skeptical but could be wrong.