Time will tell. The U.S. killed over 2MM north Vietnamese and we know how that turned out.

Tailgate88 said:

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NPH- said:

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neither side really wins here, but the U.S. should not be the Bank for this damn thing, regardless of where you stand on the situation.

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Especially when a big chunk our "aid" just disappeared. Wonder how much of it made it back into American politician's offshore accounts?

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10% to the big guy

Teslag said:

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There's no way to know the true thoughts of the Russian people.

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Yes there is.

When they are family and friends and they are here visiting.

And yes - there is a large segment of the Russian population that opposes the war --- but they are a distinct minority.

F Ukraine and F zelenskyy. Go back home and leave the American people out of your fight with Russia.

Also... Give the tax payers their money back.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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He's a hero because when the entire western world was making plans to give Ukraine to Russia and was negotiating his exile. He held his country together

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I hope he's searching real estate brochures for where he's going to spend his exile now.

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Maybe. The last time the experts planned his exile he proceeded to whip Russia's a**. My guess is we have galvanized all of Ukraine and Europe against the United States and Russia and they are probably going to finish the job which is fine but we have given up soft power in Europe. Something we have dominated since the end of WWII.

FIDO_Ags said:

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Time will tell. The U.S. killed over 2MM north Vietnamese and we know how that turned out.

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A war that probably doesn't happen if JFK was not killed by the deep state and his VP.

Yeah ... I said it.

TheEternalOptimist said:

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TommyBrady said:

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If only California, New York, and Massachusetts were allowed to vote in elections I wonder if the dems would win in a landslide?

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Zelensky can't win an election right now if he allowed one...... even with the pro-Russian east under occupation.

Facts.

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Well, I would hope so since the dictator of Ukraine outlawed all opposition parties. That would be kinda embarrassing if he did lose.

TheEternalOptimist said:

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Teslag said:

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There's no way to know the true thoughts of the Russian people.

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Yes there is.

When they are family and friends and they are here visiting.

And yes - there is a large segment of the Russian population that opposes the war --- but they are a distinct minority.

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You aren't the only one with family and friends from Russia

TheEternalOptimist said:

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Teslag said:

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There's no way to know the true thoughts of the Russian people.

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Yes there is.

When they are family and friends and they are here visiting.

And yes - there is a large segment of the Russian population that opposes the war --- but they are a distinct minority.

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So, you are a Ruskie. horosho sidim

Birdwatcher said:

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Vance and Trump were so rude and disrespectful to Zelenskyy, who was the only good, decent and honorable person among them. My respect for Zelensky increases for not sitting there and taking it. I hope Europe is able and willing to pick up the slack as America stabs Ukraine in the back. Trump and Vance are unhinged facists

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NPH- said:

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neither side really wins here, but the U.S. should not be the Bank for this damn thing, regardless of where you stand on the situation.

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It's about more than that to me. A peace deal, even with the concessions, is the best thing for the Ukrainian people even if their leaders don't see it. I understand why they want to keep fighting, but I also think they're too close to it to be objective.

Without a peace deal they're going to continue to lose more and more people and ultimately more territory as well.

pressitup said:

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I bet europe butt puckered watching that.

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Again, I think that is probably Trump's objective.

Zelenskyy is playing poker with everyone else's money. To some extent, so is Russia now that they are using foreign troops. Regardless, Trump is not afraid to walk away from the table because he is tired of bankrolling Z and has little to lose. He isn't going to get the money back, but there is a chance he gets something back in the form of minerals.
Before he does, he is trying to let Europe know that it is time for them deuce or get off the pot because they do stand a chance of losing something. Again this is something Europe should be taking the lead on, not the US

4stringAg said:

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Zelensky knows the American media hates Trump/Vance and adores him. He gambled that he could "take things public" and he lost bigly because he also should have known Trump or Vance don't give a **** what the media writes about them or this.

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Whoever gave Zelensky advice to do what he did totally backfired. It was odd that it was in front of the cameras so it had to be a power play on the part of Zelensky thinking that we would back down due to public criticism. Well guess what?? We didn't and made things worse for him.

rootube said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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He's a hero because when the entire western world was making plans to give Ukraine to Russia and was negotiating his exile. He held his country together

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I hope he's searching real estate brochures for where he's going to spend his exile now.

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Maybe. The last time the experts planned his exile he proceeded to whip Russia's a**. My guess is we have galvanized all of Ukraine and Europe against the United States and Russia and they are probably going to finish the job which is fine but we have given up soft power in Europe. Something we have dominated since the end of WWII.

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So we can save even more money by withdrawing from the UN and removing our bases?

Where do I sign up?

Tailgate88 said:

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IndividualFreedom said:

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I do not like the cameras being on. That was advantage to Zelensky. DJT and Vance had to kick the Ukraines out. It all bout respeck.

My favorite part was that they got kicked out before lunch was served. Like HR after they fire IT on a Friday have an immediate security escort, do not stop by the desk for the things.

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Heard on Clay & Buck the executive staff of the White House press office was getting to eat it instead. Sounds like their lunch plans got an unexpected upgrade!

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Visualizing the Ukranian delegation pulling up to an Arby's on the way to catch their flight home is quite amusing

TheEternalOptimist said:

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4stringAg said:

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Zelensky knows the American media hates Trump/Vance and adores him. He gambled that he could "take things public" and he lost bigly because he also should have known Trump or Vance don't give a **** what the media writes about them or this.

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Trump is no longer playing 4-D chess.

This is 5-D.

Lindsey Graham just said he doesn't know if he can continue to support Ukraine given what has occurred. Never thought I would see the day.

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Trump played Zelenskyy like a fiddle. He knew that pressuring Z to push back at Trump/Vance on camera would be a bad look for Ukraine and create further doubt in the eyes of the American public...and with the fickle politicians that raced to Ukraine aid when it was first perceived as the popular thing to do.

TheEternalOptimist said:

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4stringAg said:

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Zelensky knows the American media hates Trump/Vance and adores him. He gambled that he could "take things public" and he lost bigly because he also should have known Trump or Vance don't give a **** what the media writes about them or this.

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Trump is no longer playing 4-D chess.

This is 5-D.

Lindsey Graham just said he doesn't know if he can continue to support Ukraine given what has occurred. Never thought I would see the day.

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That's cause Graham is a political ho. He knows Trump is shutting down the grifter train so there is no reason not for him to pivot, nothing left to gain. In fact, Z's little tantrum is probably providing a lot of neocons the opportunity jump ship and kiss Trump's ring. Quite convenient.

safety guy said:

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4stringAg said:

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Zelensky knows the American media hates Trump/Vance and adores him. He gambled that he could "take things public" and he lost bigly because he also should have known Trump or Vance don't give a **** what the media writes about them or this.

---

Whoever gave Zelensky advice to do what he did totally backfired. It was odd that it was in front of the cameras so it had to be a power play on the part of Zelensky thinking that we would back down due to public criticism. Well guess what?? We didn't and made things worse for him.

---

Instead, Trump turned it into a power play for himself. He's not going to be out-argued. Trump is relentless. Those who hate him were going to hate him no matter what he did. But he didn't just pop off to Z. It was intentional, he was using the cameras and court of public opinion to send the message that Ukraine doesn't get to dictate the terms of the deal.

Quote:

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Breaking News

TUNE IN: Bret Baier interviews Zelenskyy after heated WH meeting on 'Special Report' at 6PM ET

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Should be must-see TV!

Zelensky showed exactly who he is. He is no diplomat. He is a little guy held up as a hero which just feeds his Napoleonic complex. He couldn't stand no being a showman and trying to be "macho" and feeding his ego.

Gigem314 said:

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TheEternalOptimist said:

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4stringAg said:

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Zelensky knows the American media hates Trump/Vance and adores him. He gambled that he could "take things public" and he lost bigly because he also should have known Trump or Vance don't give a **** what the media writes about them or this.

---

Trump is no longer playing 4-D chess.

This is 5-D.

Lindsey Graham just said he doesn't know if he can continue to support Ukraine given what has occurred. Never thought I would see the day.

---

Trump played Zelenskyy like a fiddle. He knew that pressuring Z to push back at Trump/Vance on camera would be a bad look for Ukraine and create further doubt in the eyes of the American public...and with the fickle politicians that raced to Ukraine aid when it was first perceived as the popular thing to do.

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I disagree. The US was offering Ukraine basically nothing. If you are Zelenskyy, why kiss the ring if there is nothing in it for you? His approval rating at home and in Europe probably went through the roof. Time will tell if that's enough to finish off Russia.

Teslag said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Farmer_J said:

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Teslag said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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captkirk said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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captkirk said:

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Bones08 said:

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I'm ignorant here. Why is the lack of peace Zelensky's fault and not Putin's fault?

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Seems Zelensky is unwilling to negotiate peace at this time. He'd prefer to keep the grift of US tax dollars going.

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And Putin is?

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Do you have evidence Putin is unwilling to negotiate peace?

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If Putin wanted peace he could end the war today. As a reminder, he's the invader.

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Most posters know he's the invader and support him in doing so.

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You forgot the part where the CIA overthrew Ukraine and installed an anti-Russian government.

Come on, now we just talked about this.

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And then Ukrainians elected Zelenskyy in a landslide. So apparently they were good with that direction.

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When eastern Ukrainians were not allowed to vote.

When only the half of the country that supports you is allowed to vote you are pretty much guaranteed to win in a landslide.

Venezuela much?

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The two regions being controlled by Russian separatists? Doesn't look like "half" to me.

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That will leave a mark

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Even less legitimate than our 2020 election.

But I digress.

JayM said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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JayM said:

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Birdwatcher said:

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Vance and Trump were so rude and disrespectful to Zelenskyy, who was the only good, decent and honorable person among them. My respect for Zelensky increases for not sitting there and taking it. I hope Europe is able and willing to pick up the slack as America stabs Ukraine in the back. Trump and Vance are unhinged facists

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I agree. I'm not sure Trump has any diplomatic talent in his administration. And for now Rubio will toe the line or "You're Fired!"

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Zelenskyy took that photo op down to the gutter.

Enough carrot. It's time for the stick. Trump wont be nice about it either.

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So Russia enters Ukraine and finishes the deal with tacit approval from Trump. And Europe realizes they have no ally in the US. That may satisfy your sugar cravings and good for you. We can do it on our own over here. We can declare we are of the same stature as Russia and China in moving the chess pieces along the global chess board.

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This is a disaster, and puts America closer to global war.

The Reverse Apache Master said:

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Farmer_J said:

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Teslag said:

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Farmer_J said:

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If the people love zelensky, he won't mind having an election right?

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Yes as soon as his constitution allows. Not doing so is what a dictator does.

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It's funny watching you twist yourself in knots to defend that puppet

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To be the "well akshually guy", the reason why Ukraine cannot have elections (per their Constitution) is because Zelensky declared nationwide martial law in 2022. Wartime does not Constitutionally prohibit them from having elections.

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Yep. England had elections in 1944.