Ellis Wyatt said:

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Honestly, most Hawaiians are like that, especially toward outsiders, white outsiders in particular. They like your tourist dollars, but that's where it stops.

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Yep. Maybe the most condescending and racist place I have been in the world, and I have visited many places.

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wasn't really planning on heading back into the Pacific anyway

but this thread seals the deal with what you are describing.

It's Buenos Aires, Rio (again) and Cartagena (again)

Anyone there in December last year? Maybe a week before Christmas we had a MASSIVE storm. It rained so hard and so much that trees were down everywhere. Has it rained much since then?

YouBet said:

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Wife shared with me that she's seeing calls from locals to the elites on Maui to help them rebuild and pay for it. Sounds like lots of historical anger is being expressed via this tragedy.

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Agreed. I've seen comments from locals that the fire was started by rich corporations so they could sweep and take the land for more hotels.

Death toll up to 53 now.....One of my favorite places in the world.....so sad for the loss of life... Prayers to the familes impacted

LMCane said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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Honestly, most Hawaiians are like that, especially toward outsiders, white outsiders in particular. They like your tourist dollars, but that's where it stops.

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Yep. Maybe the most condescending and racist place I have been in the world, and I have visited many places.

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wasn't really planning on heading back into the Pacific anyway

but this thread seals the deal with what you are describing.

It's Buenos Aires, Rio (again) and Cartagena (again)

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Lolz

It Aint Easy Being Brown said:

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LMCane said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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Honestly, most Hawaiians are like that, especially toward outsiders, white outsiders in particular. They like your tourist dollars, but that's where it stops.

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Yep. Maybe the most condescending and racist place I have been in the world, and I have visited many places.

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wasn't really planning on heading back into the Pacific anyway

but this thread seals the deal with what you are describing.

It's Buenos Aires, Rio (again) and Cartagena (again)

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Lolz

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RIght, maybe you should vacation in Iran, Saudi, N Korea, China, hell the whole Middle East, Northern Africa, now South Africa, all bastions of racial equality.....

Freakin morons.......

Politics? Isn't there an outdoors and general board?

I have extended family there. All but 1 have lost their home.

They're estimating 1000 buildings lost in a town of 9000. Just pure decimation.

Texker said:

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I have extended family there. All but 1 have lost their home.

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Damn. Sorry to heart that.

Praying for everyone there.

Was talking with my wife about this last night.

She said airlines have increased flights out, brought in larger planes, etc. to help folks get out.

For the locals, what are they going to do, especially the ones that were employed by tourism dollars. The town of Lahaina is basically gone and all the businesses along with it. Not only that, the residents have no where to live and it's not like there are a lot of rental homes in the area they can quickly move into.

The hotel we stayed in last December is still there, but looks damaged (doesn't look like it caught on fire as it was a concrete/steel structure), but all the homes and other businesses around it are gone.

Before and after photos

Goodness gracious.

News report this morning of over 1,000 missing.

Tragic.

the second photo looks like a picture from World War II

I'm sorry but I have to ask how the building codes worked in Lahaina versus the Historical Preservation Board? Changing the location of a bathroom had to pass newer building codes in most locales. Was it outside elevation only that was affected?

Granted, I understand that modern sprinkler systems and other fire exstinguishing devices are common everywhere else with a certain degree of remodeling but how did that work in Hawaii?

Anyone know?

Can't speak to fire codes but not sure they would've been enough to prevent anything when this was engine 1 of Lahaina FD

agz win said:

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News report this morning of over 1,000 missing.

Tragic.

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Probably going to be hundreds dead or never found. 80 dread so far and they haven't even gone into buildings. This'll probably go down as the worst wildfire in US history when it's all said and done.

As a small beacon of light in the tragic story- it appears that the Catholic church in Lahaina was miraculously spared from the devastation.

A Catholic church reportedly remains untouched by the wildfires as a symbol of hope in Hawaii

Around 67 people have died in the wildfires that has almost totally destroyed the Lahaina town in Hawaii’s Maui. While according to local reports coming out, Maria Lanakila, a Catholic… pic.twitter.com/y1zGUKfvgO

— Sachin Jose (@Sachinettiyil) August 12, 2023

HAWAII

Maria Lanakila Catholic Church completely unharmed by fire while everything around it is burnt to the ground. pic.twitter.com/WCsw9b4U9T

— Catholic Arena (@CatholicArena) August 11, 2023

Looks like the construction saved it, didn't look like any wood or flammable materials on the siding or roof

Ya, I'm not so sure that we chalk this up to superior construction materials from 1846…

aggiehawg said:

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I'm sorry but I have to ask how the building codes worked in Lahaina versus the Historical Preservation Board? Changing the location of a bathroom had to pass newer building codes in most locales. Was it outside elevation only that was affected?

Granted, I understand that modern sprinkler systems and other fire exstinguishing devices are common everywhere else with a certain degree of remodeling but how did that work in Hawaii?

Anyone know?

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No sprinkler system is going to save a building from a fire like that. Sprinkler systems are meant to suppress a fire inside the building and snuff it out before it gets out of control, but when the whole world outside is on fire, you're just spraying a forest fire with a garden hose.

Quote:

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No sprinkler system is going to save a building from a fire like that. Sprinkler systems are meant to suppress a fire inside the building and snuff it out before it gets out of control, but when the whole world outside is on fire, you're just spraying a forest fire with a garden hose.

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No sirens went off either. Did you have a point?

aggiehawg said:

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I'm sorry but I have to ask how the building codes worked in Lahaina versus the Historical Preservation Board? Changing the location of a bathroom had to pass newer building codes in most locales. Was it outside elevation only that was affected?

Granted, I understand that modern sprinkler systems and other fire exstinguishing devices are common everywhere else with a certain degree of remodeling but how did that work in Hawaii?

Anyone know?

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Regardless, the sprinkler system won't help in a wildfire. For one the sprinkler system is inside and is designed to minimize damage inside, while the wildfire is working from outside in

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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No sprinkler system is going to save a building from a fire like that. Sprinkler systems are meant to suppress a fire inside the building and snuff it out before it gets out of control, but when the whole world outside is on fire, you're just spraying a forest fire with a garden hose.

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No sirens went off either. Did you have a point?

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The point is that the question of how sprinklers worked in Lahaina is completely irrelevant considering that no sprinkler system in the world could have saved a building from the spread of a fire that intense.

Quote:

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The point is that the question of how sprinklers worked in Lahaina is completely irrelevant considering that no sprinkler system in the world could have saved a building from the spread of a fire that intense.

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And the building next to it? And the one next to that? None of the fininshed foam system (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) . Surfactants.

ETA: Steam when the wet stuff hits the red stuff can burn off an ear when not fully protected. The nozzle man can't get there.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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The point is that the question of how sprinklers worked in Lahaina is completely irrelevant considering that no sprinkler system in the world could have saved a building from the spread of a fire that intense.

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And the building next to it? And the one next to that? None of the fininshed foam system (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) . Surfactants.

ETA: Steam when the wet stuff hits the red stuff can burn off an ear when not fully protected. The nozzle man can't get there.

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No. As repeatedly mentioned, sprinklers are made to suppress small fires within a building and stop them from growing and spreading. Sprinkler systems do not trigger every head at once like in the movies. Only individual heads are triggered by localized heat sources. If an external wildfire is burning the building from the outside in, it's already gone.

This fire was so intense it burned thousands of buildings in about an hour and half. Stop thinking there was some way sprinklers designed to put out what amounts to a campfire would have done anything.

Yeah, not the purpose of sprinkler systems. Even if a building had ten times the number of sprinklers as is required, it would be like trying to put out a volcano with a water pistol.

RebelE Infantry said:

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As a small beacon of light in the tragic story- it appears that the Catholic church in Lahaina was miraculously spared from the devastation.

A Catholic church reportedly remains untouched by the wildfires as a symbol of hope in Hawaii

Around 67 people have died in the wildfires that has almost totally destroyed the Lahaina town in Hawaii’s Maui. While according to local reports coming out, Maria Lanakila, a Catholic… pic.twitter.com/y1zGUKfvgO

— Sachin Jose (@Sachinettiyil) August 12, 2023

HAWAII

Maria Lanakila Catholic Church completely unharmed by fire while everything around it is burnt to the ground. pic.twitter.com/WCsw9b4U9T

— Catholic Arena (@CatholicArena) August 11, 2023

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Was wondering about that church. Went to mass there in December and sung "Aloha Madonna" as the processional hymn!

The church is brick and doesn't have a lot of wooden structures next to it. I've heard there is older neighborhood to the north where a lot of houses constructed with brick and rock and have some separation between them are also standing. I don't know how hard it is to get the smoke smell out after all of that.

RebelE Infantry said:

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Ya, I'm not so sure that we chalk this up to superior construction materials from 1846…

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You can if the materials the church is built out of is not made of flammable materials

We have friends headed to Kaanapali next Sat, we were supposed to be in the same timeshare the week after.

Nothing was damaged 4miles north of Lahaina but the emails from the association asked people to alter their plans and to not visit. So last Thursday we pivoted to Kauai, friends don't understand the issues of visiting. Having been involved in multiple disasters from CA wildfires to floods and Hurricanes I tried to explain the issues but they wilfully aren't listening. Recovery can take a long time and they've never had to deal with something like this.

Issues with power, cell/internet and water remain and may not be restored quickly, at least not within a week after the fire where they'll still pulling bodies out. It'll be curious if airline's will cancel people's flights at the request of local government.

For some resorts they kicked everyone out so the airport must have been a hot mess for days. Hard to find information of what's going on the ground now.

wonder what the church looks like on the inside after being in the middle of the firestorm