Russia/Ukraine from Another Perspective (Relaunch Part Deux)

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John Armfield
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In reply to docb • 10:28a, 2/23/24
docb said:
PlaneCrashGuy said:
docb said:
You're looking forward to "spiking the ball" for Russia invading another sovereign country? If so you truly are a sad individual.
You can't address the point so you address the poster. You're the sad one.

Spike the ball was in reference to the usual war supporters who show up here every time a Russian plane is shot down and start pounding their chest. Its a pretty well documented habit of theirs over the last 170 pages that appears to have stopped, for now.

So you think it's odd that people celebrate losses for a country that's clearly invaded a sovereign country run by a dictator who murders his political opponents. Yea you're the smart one.
yes its odd why does anyone in the USA really care about the Russia-UKE , countries around the world are killing each other daily no one bats an eye
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nortex97
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In reply to docb • 10:35a, 2/23/24
AG
docb said:
Build It said:
We can't stop doing business with India. We let all the pharmaceutical companies leave the US and go there.

They have all the meds we need.

There in lies the problem. Don't become dependent on these countries.
It's weird when isolationism is accepted by folks and when it is characterized as 'ignorant of history (see: Neville Chamberlain)' alternatively.

I've been told that repeatedly Americans must care about Russia and Ukraine because it all links together and we are dependent on the 'freedom' of Ukraine and Europe vs. the imminent threat of being conquered by mighty Russia. but Indian trade is expendable?

Thank you for posting on this thread, btw. I appreciate the engagement/depth of views shared.
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nortex97
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1:14p, 2/23/24
AG
LOL, no kidding.



"Ok, fine, maybe we don't really need Russia to cede Crimea to us."
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:30p, 2/23/24
AG
"Lower the bar and declare victory"
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Build It
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:41p, 2/23/24
AG
I think in todays society there are few things that our country can do to secure our future. Being a Capitalist where industry is free to do business our recourse is to incentivize some industries to stay here.

Defense, pharmaceuticals, computer chips, and energy including all hydrocarbon manufacturing would seem the most likely candidates we should actively be supporting to stay or move back to the US. These things are crucial to our way of life.

I wouldn't say that's isolationist, probably nationalist for sure. I want our way of life defended.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:48p, 2/23/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
"Lower the bar and declare victory"


Right on schedule, its here.

The yokels and lemmings will accept the narrative. Who was paying attention? Masks will com off.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 6:52p, 2/23/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
An interesting question. "New sanctions" logically invalidates a lot of the rhetoric from the war mongers in Washington.




"How is there even anything left to sanction?"

Lindsey "ladybug" Graham articulates this point perfectly.
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Tanker123
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7:58p, 2/23/24
This war has different faces. Ukraine has been given a suite of accurate weapons. These weapons to a good degree have given light forces the capability of fighting mechanized forces. However, Ukraine has a very limited capability to maneuver long distances to engage the Russians. To counterattack and flank them.

The Russians have used modern, WWI, and WWII tactics. They are willing to grind it out in attrition warfare. This may be the undoing of Ukraine, if the West negatively alters the military aid to the country.
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nortex97
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5:59a, 2/24/24
AG






I hadn't seen this one, but I guess the Russians lost a cargo plane yesterday, to their own S-400 unit. I am sure in the propaganda war press is claiming it was some great Ukrainian victory and a war changing impact etc. Probably…not:



The Abrams were shown in some propaganda videos close to the front finally:



Zelensky the wonderful promises another mythological spring counter-offensive;
Quote:
Ukraine is planning a new counteroffensive against Russia despite a string of recent setbacks including the failure to break through Moscow's defenses last year and the loss of the strategic city of Avdeevka in Donbass, President Vladimir Zelensky has said.

In an interview with Fox News on Thursday, Zelensky acknowledged that some Western backers have expressed impatience with Kiev and the perceived lack of progress, asking him "when we will finish the war, when will we win."

The Ukrainian leader stressed that his utmost priority is to avoid heavy casualties, and that if Kiev loses its soldiers, it "will lose everything," even if the West provides it with the most advanced weapons.

"To defend [is] the task number one and then to continue our successful story on the Black Sea" he said, adding that Russia is preparing certain "surprises" in the region, without elaborating further.
An AAR of sorts from the Russian side of Operation Citadel 2.0 last summer.

Quote:
The Ukrainian army's losses over the period of its offensive turned out to be huge and considerably exceeded the initial strength of the attack force that was replenished during battles by ill-trained personnel and far from the best combat hardware from reserves of the rear. The Ukrainian grouping's losses amounted to 166,000 personnel or 25% above its initial strength, 789 tanks and 2,400 other armored vehicles or more than 50% above the initial amount, 132 aircraft or 15% more than what the Ukrainian military had by the time of its offensive.
Quote:
Global consequence of Operation Citadel 2.0 collapse

Ukraine and generally even the collective West suffered grave military and political consequences of the failure of Operation Citadel 2.0. The failure of the Ukrainian army's offensive meant not only a strategic defeat of Kiev's forces but also the collapse of the united West's hybrid blitzkrieg when huge economic losses related to unprecedented sanctions and enormous deliveries of various armaments yielded no results. A trend for the West to lose its status as the ruler of the world's destinies intensified. In turn, this triggered the process of reducing the Western civilization's spheres of influence, considering that the BRICS association expanded to 11 countries and another 27 states applied for the organization's membership.

These negative trends for the West led to mounting destructive processes inside the countries constituting that civilization and their peoples began to realize that the course pursued by the globalist elites was pernicious for their existence.

Nationally focused forces began to strengthen their positions and influence in the political spectrum of European countries and the United States. Such forces have already gained power in Hungary and Slovakia. A fierce struggle is underway in the United States between the Republicans and globalists from the Democratic Party.

However, despite such a heavy defeat suffered by the Ukrainian military, the enemy is still strong enough. This is because it is the US-led united West rather than Ukraine with its armed forces that is Russia's main enemy and Ukraine is just one of the fronts of the West's hybrid war against Russia. The failure of the first hybrid blitzkrieg does not mean a cessation of the war against Russia. On the contrary, this implies expanding the aggression and beefing up the entire set of actions constituting hybrid warfare, including the opening of new fronts of the armed confrontation.

That is why, similar to how the Soviet Army had a long way to Berlin after winning the Battle of Kursk, today Russia still has to embrace a long struggle after Kiev's botched Operation Citadel 2.0 until the Final Victory that it will certainly win. But it has already achieved the first and truly Big Victory.
Trump is right about Nato: The American Conservative essay:

Quote:
One of the more stunning admissions came from the usual unidentified source, in this case an anonymous European diplomat speaking to Fox News: "When Trump came along, it woke us up to the fact that the U.S. might not always act in European interest, especially if it goes against American interest." That was quite the admission, as the source granted: "It sounds naive saying it out loud, but that was the assumption a lot of people made."

Imagine! The problem is not that Europeans gloried in getting American officials to put Europe firstthat is to be expected. Rather, the outrage is that American officials did so. And apparently did so routinely, without the slightest sense of shame. It took the undiplomatic, untutored, potty-mouthed Donald Trump to restore a sense of sanity to the U.S.Europe relationship.

Treating the Pentagon as an international welfare agency for well-heeled clients is not the only problem with NATO today. Creating an alliance so heavily dependent on one nation encourages other states to fantasize at America's expense. Their representatives often concoct grand military schemes for "NATO"in practice meaning the U.S.

For instance, shortly after Russia invaded Ukraine, a medley of Baltic governmentofficials proposed imposing a "no-fly zone" over the latter. To be effective, such a ban would require shooting down planes operating over Russia as well, leading to full-scale war. Yet neither individually nor collectively do Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania possess anything approaching an "air force." Obviously, they wouldn't be enforcing a no-fly zone.

More recently, Estonia's President Alar Karis pushed for naval confrontation with Moscow: "Western countries should establish a military presence in part of the Black Sea to ensure the safe movement of commercial and humanitarian aid vessels." Estonia, however, has precisely six boats, two for coastal combat and four for mining. They are backed by two planes and two helicoptersfor transport. Evidently someone other than Tallinn would have to do the confronting.

Foreign commentators promote equally ambitious plans. Simon Tisdall, columnist for the United Kingdom's Guardian newspaper, decided that the sword was, in fact, more powerful than the pen and wrote a column urging use of "NATO's overwhelming power to decisively turn the military tide" in Ukraine. Yet the U.K. military is shrinking and isn't likely to be turning "the military tide" in Europe or elsewhere.

Two weeks ago, Peter Bator, Slovakia's Permanent Representative to NATO, came to the U.S. to complain to Americans that the alliancemeaning them, the Americanshad not intervened on behalf of Ukraine. Rather melodramatically, he imagined his grandchildren saying, "You were the most powerful military organization in the world and you decided not to militarily support Ukraine. Please explain this to me."

Tragically, he couldn't. "I would have difficulties," he admitted. He said he could "find many fine arguments" of a "theoretical rhetorical" nature but would "still have problems just explaining it to myself." So off to war the transatlantic alliance should go!
No mas! We need to just get out of Nato, asap.
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nortex97
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6:09a, 2/24/24
AG
LOL, the UK has also never operated a single F-16.



What a joke.
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docb
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7:40a, 2/24/24
AG
Congress needs to quit dicking around and allow the weapons to flow.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 7:57p, 2/24/24
AG
One last note on this point: The goal posts will be moved, in some cases they have already
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Philip J Fry
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In reply to docb • 8:09p, 2/24/24
AG
docb said:
Congress needs to quit dicking around and allow the weapons to flow.


Why?
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docb
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In reply to Philip J Fry • 8:25p, 2/24/24
AG
Philip J Fry said:
docb said:
Congress needs to quit dicking around and allow the weapons to flow.


Why?


So they can hold off murderous Putin from taking over their country
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Foreverconservative
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8:25p, 2/24/24
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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Foreverconservative
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8:26p, 2/24/24
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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Ag with kids
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 8:39p, 2/24/24
AG
PlaneCrashGuy said:
In the last few weeks Uke's bleak outlook appears to have become self evident to just about everyone, including its formerly most vapid supporters. We've had Russian planes go down yet were spared the chest pounding that is typical of those events. But perhaps its too soon to spike the ball.
Luckily you're not rooting for Russia or anything...
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Philip J Fry
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In reply to docb • 8:41p, 2/24/24
AG
docb said:
Philip J Fry said:
docb said:
Congress needs to quit dicking around and allow the weapons to flow.


Why?


So they can hold off murderous Putin from taking over their country



Why do we care?
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Ag with kids
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In reply to Philip J Fry • 8:43p, 2/24/24
AG
Philip J Fry said:
docb said:
Philip J Fry said:
docb said:
Congress needs to quit dicking around and allow the weapons to flow.


Why?


So they can hold off murderous Putin from taking over their country



Why do we care?
Because geopolitics is more complicated than 1D checkers???
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PlaneCrashGuy
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9:41p, 2/24/24
AG
Uke movement has definitely lost a lot of steam
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Foreverconservative
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11:53p, 2/24/24


So Zelenskyy just canceled elections, again, for the 3rd year now, in the place they're telling you is the so called 'democracy' we need to defend by pumping in billions of dollars we don't have.



“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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nortex97
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In reply to Foreverconservative • 4:07a, 2/25/24
AG
Yep, and not just the elections, no free press, speech, religion, books are banned (not just in schools), no freedom of movement (can't leave the country legally). Totally wonderful democracy.



Our propaganda press/big tech should be trusted to tell us who the good guys and bad guys are, right?





But Xiden's bosses are very happy with his performance as a war commander;







From above;

Quote:
The auto-translation messes up a little at the end, but he essentially states that "Russia is rotating troops back and forth everywhere, from Avdeevka, Kupyansk, Rabotino, etc."
Those who've just read my new paid report will recognize these words immediatelythis is precisely what I wrote about, and will expand on later in this piece. The short of it is: with its far superior mobility and logistics infrastructure, Russia is able to totally dazzle the enemy by constantly reorienting its forces through roughly 5 major fronts, keeping the Ukrainian force invariably off-balance due to their inability to keep up the troop rotations.
Though it seems hyperbolic to say this, especially since we've said it many times before, but there is a definitive tone shift going on now. A clearly palpable panic is beginning to set in, with the directness of the warnings coming from officials reaching new levels of urgency. Foremost of this recent spate is the following:



But here's the kicker from the article above:
Quote:
U.S. officials predict similar scenarios will play out elsewhere in Ukraine as the government there is forced to make tough choices on where to put its remaining air defenses -- and as Russia makes greater use of its airpower, including lobbing satellite-guided glide-bombs much as it was in Avdiivka.
"The things that are protected today -- they will not be able to protect all of these locations in the future if they don't maintain supplies of interceptors," the senior defense official said. And if Russia gains control of the skies, "it completely changes the nature of this fight."
Followed by:
Quote:
Added one Ukrainian official: "Our primary goal is to deter Russian aviation. If we can't do that, it's time to pack our things."
Quote:
Former head of CIA and US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates says the war is not a stalemate, but in fact the tide has turned to Russia's favor, and says the loss of Avdeevka was important:

Quote:
"TIDE HAS TURNED IN RUSSIA'S FAVOR" - Former head of the CIA & former US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates says, disappointed.
Many people are talking about this military conflict as a stalemate. I believe that it's not a stalemate - the Russians have regained momentum.
There is a feeling that they are now going on the offensive. The loss of Avdeevka (https://t.me/IntelRepublic/34184) was important. This creates an opportunity for the Russians to push the front line further east - Gates reiterates.
Bloomberg agrees:
Anyway, much more at the link, and I would note the comments contain some useful commentary (and some garbage, of course).
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nortex97
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5:41a, 2/25/24
AG








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GAC06
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In reply to nortex97 • 9:06a, 2/25/24
AG
Why would anyone need to argue against a claimed A-50 shoot down? Those things are pretty much worthless right? It was probably a IR countermeasure equipped civil aircraft though.
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PlaneCrashGuy
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1:46p, 2/25/24
AG

Does anyone here actually believe the 31,000? Is anyone actually willing to defend this claim? Or are we in agreement it is likely 10x+ that number?
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Foreverconservative
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7:58p, 2/25/24
Just going to park this light reading right here for all the speculators and goaltenders.

https://foia.state.gov/Search/Results.aspx?searchText=(Nuland%20AND%20Ukraine)%20AND%20(Orbis)&beginDate=20121231&endDate=20141231
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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Ag with kids
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In reply to GAC06 • 8:26p, 2/25/24
AG
GAC06 said:
Why would anyone need to argue against a claimed A-50 shoot down? Those things are pretty much worthless right? It was probably a IR countermeasure equipped civil aircraft though.
Doesn't your commercial plane have flares?

CAPT: Please put your seatbelts on. We're going to be doing some evasive maneuvers for the next few minutes. And if you look out your window, you can see some lovely flares.
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Foreverconservative
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12:28a, 2/26/24
All this nonsense is laughable, the spooks have had a dozen Black Sites in Ukraine for a decade pushing this war, twisting the screws and lighting the tinder so it would blow up and the money game is back in business. Ukraine has been ground zero for the skim for years. Don't get me wrong, Putin is a bad man and has done some atrocious things, but for the US to try and play innocent in this is BS.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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nortex97
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In reply to Ag with kids • 5:12a, 2/26/24
AG
Ag with kids said:
GAC06 said:
Why would anyone need to argue against a claimed A-50 shoot down? Those things are pretty much worthless right? It was probably a IR countermeasure equipped civil aircraft though.
Doesn't your commercial plane have flares?

CAPT: Please put your seatbelts on. We're going to be doing some evasive maneuvers for the next few minutes. And if you look out your window, you can see some lovely flares.
I worry that some of y'all are incapable of researching anything past the war propaganda. Yes, the IL-76 MD have flares. The "civilianized" variant (TD) is largely identical and the removal of the gun system/friend foe military components might be exactly what caused the confusion, though it had been re-incorporated into a military role/mission obviously. Though mostly just the Israeli's use/carry flares on strictly civilian airliners, military-style mission contractors wouldn't have them removed from a second-hand -76 being operated by either the Russian government or a carrier under contract in Ukraine for…obvious reasons, I'd think, operating in places like Syria, Africa, etc. Happy to help as always.

Claiming Ukraine used some 250+ Km range 50-year old soviet 'modified' intercepter to shoot an A-50 down on camera but the radome couldn't be spotted in the wreckage is despite the actual wreckage showing a different version…would be the tough to believe stuff (to me), especially after the mythologized (faked) shoot down of one last month. I guess the very serious 'strategic and tactical' guys must have really been tap dancing over the claims/propaganda around that cargo plane though. People can believe what they wish.

Anyway…sounds like the rift between military leadership and Kiev civilian propagandists/leaders has been quite real;
Quote:
The Ukrainian government wanted the military to figure out how Kiev could defeat Russia but failed to provide data on what resources it had to achieve that goal, an adviser to former Ukrainian commander-in-chief Valery Zaluzhny has said.

In an interview with The New York Times published on Saturday, General Viktor Nazarov offered a glimpse into one of the reasons for the rift between the country's military and civilian authorities last year.
He noted that army officials were troubled by demands from the government in Kiev, which wanted them to draw "a road map for victory without telling them the amount of men, ammunition and reserves they would have to execute any plan."

The general lamented that this was one of the factors the civilian authorities "did not understand or did not want to understand" when they asked the military without any strategic reserves to come up with strategic plans.

Nazarov's comments echoed the remarks of his ex-boss prior to his sacking. In an opinion piece for CNN earlier this month, Zaluzhny blasted "imperfections of the regulatory framework," as well as the partial monopolization of the national defense industry, which he said resulted in production bottlenecks and exacerbated dependence on foreign arms shipments.




"This war is about Ukrainian sovereignty from naked and unprovoked Russian aggression" I have been told:





Major attack speculation:



Saint Zelensky's popularity seems to have cratered to below FJB levels;









Forever war, comrades!
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PlaneCrashGuy
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5:49a, 2/26/24
AG
Unserious movement
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GAC06
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In reply to PlaneCrashGuy • 10:51a, 2/26/24
AG
How would a civilian aircraft know there was a missile inbound?

Oops, that was meant to reply to our Russian aircraft expert Nortex
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nortex97
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:04a, 2/26/24
AG
GAC06 said:
How would a civilian aircraft know there was a missile inbound?

Oops, that was meant to reply to our Russian aircraft expert Nortex
Radar warning receiver was not removed, since the flares weren't. It's not real tough to figure out. The typical 'old' Russian system is pretty crude, and widely understood, but little reason to remove it separately if flares are left/operable;

Quote:
RWR in Russian Aircraft

Russian aircraft typically feature a different type of RWR system compared to NATO aircraft. The Russian RWR system relies on a less advanced visual aid, often using lights to convey information about radar threats. The symbols and lights in a Russian RWR system indicate the type of radar threat, such as aircraft radars, ground-based radars, or different radar ranges.

One significant limitation of the Russian RWR system is its narrower elevation coverage, limited to approximately 30 degrees. This means that any radar threat located above or below this elevation range might go undetected by the RWR.
Do you doubt the 2020 video I posted above of the type tossing flares in an air show/display?

Looks like an Abrams has in fact been lost:



The only significance really is that Ukraine now is down to having to deploy this system defensively.
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GAC06
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In reply to nortex97 • 11:11a, 2/26/24
AG
I guess I'm a little confused on the goaltending over losing such a useless plane. Again?
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nortex97
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:19a, 2/26/24
AG
I just don't think an A-50 was lost, is all. I also don't think they do a lot of real important stuff as they are lousy and very ineffective platforms, so you have a point there.

But really, whatever, this is the far more significant (admitted) news, this weekend/month/year so far:



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Teslag
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:26a, 2/26/24
AG
GAC06 said:
I guess I'm a little confused on the goaltending over losing such a useless plane. Again?

Give it a week and Simplicious will say it was actually full of Ukrainian POW's and was shot down by the Ukrainians.
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