In this ten year span when compared to this selection of traditional assets, it appears that Bitcoin is is the best performing asset, by far, 70% of the time, and the worst performing asset 30% of the time. And the annual percent return, CAGR, or however you want to define it…Bitcoin is the best performing asset, by far, since its inception.

Yes, I do think that's strange, unique and incredible. I feel like we're lucky to be able to experience the continued development of this amazing asset.

So yes, there's some volatility, mostly to the upside, an incredible store of value, and a wonderful hedge against inflation since its inception.

It's also not surprising that a young, developing asset would start with volatility as it moves through price discovery.

p-townag said:

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I mean Bitcoin is like a virus cockroach. It takes a little work to set up a node. And the miners have to employ capital and buy ASICS and compete for energy to mine…but other than trading fiat for Bitcoin that's about it. Is there anything specific you think I'm missing?

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My son does mining for cryptocurrency and owns an ASIC. It consumes 3,400 watts of electricity so it's an expensive 'toy'...he has a regular job; the mining is just something to supplement his income. Once set-up and operational, the mining requires minimal user time. It's just that few people possess the technical expertise to be able to become operational. He doesn't mine for Bitcoin anymore though because the competition is unbelievable. Owning a single ASIC is now totally outclassed; it's like a flea compared to a gorilla. There are people mining for Bitcoin who have thousands of ASICs and have exahashes of mining capability. For example, CleanSpark, a renewable energy company, claims it has 75,000 mining machines. My son mines for one of the minor cryptocurrencies; he currently makes $56/day mining with his ASIC, down from $90/day before more hash power came on-line (competition). The mining revenue is treated as income, but then the trading of the cryptocurrency is realized gain (stock trade). He utilizes a website which tracks his mining and trading incomes for tax purposes. Last year he made roughly 4k in mining and 32k in realized gains, so its a profitable venture.

Until it levels out at zero.

How many people got screwed in the DotCom bubble and the internet is not even over.

TexasRebel said:

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How many people got screwed in the DotCom bubble and the internet is not even over.

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Exactly. The crappy altcoins die, and the real assets (Bitcoin) continue to grow.

I think @LawrenceLepard said it best pic.twitter.com/0zwPfEN8GJ

— Shifu Dumo (@dumimo) March 18, 2024

reminds me of the people on this thread

p-townag said:

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TexasRebel said:

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How many people got screwed in the DotCom bubble and the internet is not even over.

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Exactly. The crappy altcoins die, and the real assets (Bitcoin) continue to grow.

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What makes you believe bitcoin is an asset?

TexasRebel said:

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p-townag said:

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TexasRebel said:

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How many people got screwed in the DotCom bubble and the internet is not even over.

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Exactly. The crappy altcoins die, and the real assets (Bitcoin) continue to grow.

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What makes you believe bitcoin is an asset?

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It's a piece of digital property (address on the network) that has value. Specifically, it's a $1.3 trillion asset.

The IRS also believes this to be the case:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/digital-assets#:~:text=You%20may%20have%20to%20report,from%20digital%20assets%20is%20taxable.

As does the SEC:
https://www.sec.gov/news/statement/gensler-statement-spot-bitcoin-011023

Should I take your words over theirs that Bitcoin isn't an asset?

Well yes, the irs taxes income of any form.


As far as the IRS is concerned: If you offer, and I accept, gravel rocks as payment for a $5,000,000 debt, I still have to pay income tax on the $5,000,000 income. It doesn't matter that I'll never be able to get $5,000,000 for those rocks.

TexasRebel said:

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Well yes, the irs taxes income of any form.


As far as the IRS is concerned: If you offer, and I accept, gravel rocks as payment for a $5,000,000 debt, I still have to pay income tax on the $5,000,000 income. It doesn't matter that I'll never be able to get $5,000,000 for those rocks.

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Ok. If you had sufficient quantity and quality of gravel rocks, you could get $5,000,000 from them.

In no way does your example change the fact that Bitcoin is an asset.

No, no. I mean one or two, just ordinary rocks, that we agree settles a $5,000,000 debt. Not multiple semis full.

The rocks are simply overvalued, but the income is the same.

p-townag said:

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TexasRebel said:

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Well yes, the irs taxes income of any form.


As far as the IRS is concerned: If you offer, and I accept, gravel rocks as payment for a $5,000,000 debt, I still have to pay income tax on the $5,000,000 income. It doesn't matter that I'll never be able to get $5,000,000 for those rocks.

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Ok. If you had sufficient quantity and quality of gravel rocks, you could get $5,000,000 from them.

In no way does your example change the fact that Bitcoin is an asset.

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He's just going to keep shifting the argument.

The rocks = bitcoin.

I get it. Sounds like you agree that the IRS defines both as assets in the examples you used.

The irs defines the income as an asset, yes.

Not the object or idea.

Wrong. Read the link posted.

TexasRebel said:

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The irs defines the income as an asset, yes.

Not the object or idea.

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Absolutely incorrect, but thanks for trying!

Uh

Did

They are taxing the value of your income in whatever form it may be.

Feathers, rocks, USD, bitcoin… doesn't matter.

p-townag said:

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TexasRebel said:

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The irs defines the income as an asset, yes.

Not the object or idea.

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Absolutely incorrect, but thanks for trying!

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See what I mean? You guys have fun.

TexasRebel said:

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Uh

Did

They are taxing the value of your income in whatever form it may be.

Feathers, rocks, USD, bitcoin… doesn't matter.

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You're really bad at this. Bitcoin is an asset. I've provided references and evidence. You've said…words. These next few years are going to be painful for you. Good luck.

Doubt it.

It's important to study Bitcoin.

aTmAg said:

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Don't worry, I understand it, and I do not invest in it either.

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I can't emphasize enough how important it is to study Bitcoin.

Elaborate

exp said:

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aTmAg said:

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Don't worry, I understand it, and I do not invest in it either.

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I can't emphasize enough how important it is to study Bitcoin.

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If you had to guess how many hours do you think you've studied Bitcoin? I'm probably over a 1000 or more. Probably 3-4 hours a day during Covid and since than at least an hour every day. Which includes many multiple books, seminars, conferences, discussions like this one, more research, going down the cypherpunk rabbit hole, and quite a bit more.

I went into it thinking "what value does Bitcoin provide that would make it worth spending my money on?" I've come out of it realizing that what we call money now is nothing but a deception. The deception is so encompassing that some will never let go and never believe they were deceived. It's a sad fact, but at some point you have to give up and just let them die clasping on to their dollars as the ship goes down.

Here's a thought experiment. Hypothetically If someone gave you a million dollars in either cash or bitcoin today what would you pick? What would you pick if you couldn't touch it for 10 years?

MR Gadsden said:

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exp said:

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aTmAg said:

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Don't worry, I understand it, and I do not invest in it either.

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I can't emphasize enough how important it is to study Bitcoin.

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If you had to guess how many hours do you think you've studied Bitcoin? I'm probably over a 1000 or more. Probably 3-4 hours a day during Covid and since than at least an hour every day. Which includes many multiple books, seminars, conferences, discussions like this one, more research, going down the cypherpunk rabbit hole, and quite a bit more.

I went into it thinking "what value does Bitcoin provide that would make it worth spending my money on?" I've come out of it realizing that what we call money now is nothing but a deception. The deception is so encompassing that some will never let go and never believe they were deceived. It's a sad fact, but at some point you have to give up and just let them die clasping on to their dollars as the ship goes down.

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I'm very similar. Average about 1-2 hours per day for the last 10-12 months.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Here's a thought experiment. Hypothetically If someone gave you a million dollars in either cash or bitcoin today what would you pick? What would you pick if you couldn't touch it for 10 years?

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Honestly Bitcoin either way. Happy to continue to earn fiat the traditional way and allocate as usual, but if I had a significant unexpected windfall it would all go to Bitcoin.

Believer and work in crypto, but btc and all other crypto are currently entirely coupled with and reliant on trad markets. BTC will not go up sustainably without NYSE until something enormous breaks that's never broken before.

Cash.

TexasRebel said:

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Cash.

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No surprise. Hope you can tread water. No one is coming to save you.

I only had two options.

I'd rather spread it over oil, gold, and ag commodities.

Yukon Cornelius said:

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Here's a thought experiment. Hypothetically If someone gave you a million dollars in either cash or bitcoin today what would you pick? What would you pick if you couldn't touch it for 10 years?

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Does it all have to be in the same holding place or divided up?

Gold, bitcoin, cash, real estate

So the new term is "flash crash"

How do you explain that one, bitcoiners?