MR Gadsden said:

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The Banned said:

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Adverse Event said:

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Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own.

---

This is what people\companies are building now. I went to the Texas Blockchain summit in Austin a few weeks ago. Yes, BTC price is down but there is a robust infrastructure being built out that most people are ignorant exists. And for every one of these solutions that is being built on the back of BTC\Lightning it provides value to the system.

I would sell you a car in BTC today, AE might have another item or service that he would gladly take BTC for. I think if you did some digging you might be surprised how robust the BTC economy already is.

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Adverse Event said:

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The Banned said:

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Adverse Event said:

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Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

Let's think of it this way: you undergo civil forfeiture right now. All your cash and bank acts are gone. You do, however, have your Bitcoin. Right now, how would you expect to continue to pay your bills and fill your tank without converting some of those coins into cash? Would electric company take it? Would your mortgage company? If you wanted to buy a house, could you? If the owner of the house took your Bitcoin, would they still want to if they couldn't convert it to cash when needed?

In the event you became persona non grata and we're locked out of your CBDCs AND the government made transfer of Bitcoin to CBDCs illegal, you're just as screwed as the rest of us. All modern illicit sales are done in order to gain access to licit tender. What point would there be to make an illicit sale to you in a tender that can not ever be converted into licit tender? What would the seller gain? There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own. You could viably do this for small items, but you'd never be able to have a normal life of any kind without the CBDCs. You can't buy a house. Can't buy a car. Can't pay your phone bill. Can't fill up at the gas station. None of it. You would need that full parallel economy or you're a homeless outlaw trading bitcoins for food with the other homeless outlaws.

If we ever get to the point where Bitcoin was needed for transactions because we were locked out of our CBDCs, we didn't revolt soon enough.

---

Soviet Russia banned the dollar.

The dollar value in Russia versus the local currency skyrocketed, and was the preferred money for bribes.

Why would this be any different? We already have crypto-bribes happening in this country.

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The Banned said:

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MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own.

---

This is what people\companies are building now. I went to the Texas Blockchain summit in Austin a few weeks ago. Yes, BTC price is down but there is a robust infrastructure being built out that most people are ignorant exists. And for every one of these solutions that is being built on the back of BTC\Lightning it provides value to the system.

I would sell you a car in BTC today, AE might have another item or service that he would gladly take BTC for. I think if you did some digging you might be surprised how robust the BTC economy already is.

---

If I could be convinced that the parallel market could survive a totalitarian government wanting to control all we do, I'd be all on board the Bitcoin train. My concern right now is that people are accepting that BTC because they know they can convert that to local currency. If we waive a magic wand today and that ability went away, would that alternate market continue to move forward? If so, I'd genuinely love to hear how.

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Adverse Event said:

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aTmAg said:

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Adverse Event said:

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I see you still haven't learned anything about the blocksize wars, don't know what UASF is, nor how BIP protocols get implemented.

Ngmi

---

You clearly missed the "that matters" part.


Bitcoin users don't give a crap about block sizes or protocols or any of that crap. That would be like voting stock holders caring about the color of the HQ carpet.

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Yeah it clearly wasn't a civil war of sorts resulting in multiple forks and such. Definitely no one cared.

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aTmAg said:

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Adverse Event said:

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aTmAg said:

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Adverse Event said:

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I see you still haven't learned anything about the blocksize wars, don't know what UASF is, nor how BIP protocols get implemented.

Ngmi

---

You clearly missed the "that matters" part.


Bitcoin users don't give a crap about block sizes or protocols or any of that crap. That would be like voting stock holders caring about the color of the HQ carpet.

---

Yeah it clearly wasn't a civil war of sorts resulting in multiple forks and such. Definitely no one cared.

---

I didn't say nobody cared. But the VAST majority of 330M+ Americans, that you people expect to someday use bitcoin wouldn't. All they care about is how useful is it as money.

And the answer to that is clearly: it is not useful at all as money.

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own.

---

This is what people\companies are building now. I went to the Texas Blockchain summit in Austin a few weeks ago. Yes, BTC price is down but there is a robust infrastructure being built out that most people are ignorant exists. And for every one of these solutions that is being built on the back of BTC\Lightning it provides value to the system.

I would sell you a car in BTC today, AE might have another item or service that he would gladly take BTC for. I think if you did some digging you might be surprised how robust the BTC economy already is.

---

If I could be convinced that the parallel market could survive a totalitarian government wanting to control all we do, I'd be all on board the Bitcoin train. My concern right now is that people are accepting that BTC because they know they can convert that to local currency. If we waive a magic wand today and that ability went away, would that alternate market continue to move forward? If so, I'd genuinely love to hear how.

---

Ok so let's play this out. Is it the US government that goes full CCP and bans BTC? If so, how are they going to ban it? Like be specific on how that's going to be accomplished?

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Adverse Event said:

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aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

I see you still haven't learned anything about the blocksize wars, don't know what UASF is, nor how BIP protocols get implemented.

Ngmi

---

You clearly missed the "that matters" part.


Bitcoin users don't give a crap about block sizes or protocols or any of that crap. That would be like voting stock holders caring about the color of the HQ carpet.

---

Yeah it clearly wasn't a civil war of sorts resulting in multiple forks and such. Definitely no one cared.

---

I didn't say nobody cared. But the VAST majority of 330M+ Americans, that you people expect to someday use bitcoin wouldn't. All they care about is how useful is it as money.

And the answer to that is clearly: it is not useful at all as money.

---

Yeah. The vast majority aren't bitcoin users, 100m alleged users versus 8Billion people.

Americans, due to the collusion between media, big tech (big anything really), politicians, and regulators have no idea what is real or not anymore. And minimal willpower to explore outside their lanes. Just look at this thread.

---

rocky the dog said:

---

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own.

---

This is what people\companies are building now. I went to the Texas Blockchain summit in Austin a few weeks ago. Yes, BTC price is down but there is a robust infrastructure being built out that most people are ignorant exists. And for every one of these solutions that is being built on the back of BTC\Lightning it provides value to the system.

I would sell you a car in BTC today, AE might have another item or service that he would gladly take BTC for. I think if you did some digging you might be surprised how robust the BTC economy already is.

---

If I could be convinced that the parallel market could survive a totalitarian government wanting to control all we do, I'd be all on board the Bitcoin train. My concern right now is that people are accepting that BTC because they know they can convert that to local currency. If we waive a magic wand today and that ability went away, would that alternate market continue to move forward? If so, I'd genuinely love to hear how.

---

Ok so let's play this out. Is it the US government that goes full CCP and bans BTC? If so, how are they going to ban it? Like be specific on how that's going to be accomplished?

---

Again, programmable CBDCs. They will have the ability to literally make you incapable of giving away your CBDCs for a BTC if they so choose. Drugs, guns and other contraband can still be sold because of paper transactions. That paper is then laundered and re-enters the market and ready for use on legal goods.

But in a world where there is no potential for paper transactions and all transactions were not only monitored but programmable, you swipe your card and nothing happens. You just can't. Want to buy too much alcohol? You can't. Want to buy your 10th pizza this week? You can't. Want to buy a BTC. You can't. And if a seller knows no one can give him legal tender for the illicit BTC he's about to receive no matter how much they may want to, why would he take it?

It's not about jail time. It's about the sheer inability to conduct the transaction. For the record, I think this level of micro managing is much further away than the fear mongers would say because I think the populace wouldn't accept it in such a rushed way. But it's very likely coming at some points

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own.

---

This is what people\companies are building now. I went to the Texas Blockchain summit in Austin a few weeks ago. Yes, BTC price is down but there is a robust infrastructure being built out that most people are ignorant exists. And for every one of these solutions that is being built on the back of BTC\Lightning it provides value to the system.

I would sell you a car in BTC today, AE might have another item or service that he would gladly take BTC for. I think if you did some digging you might be surprised how robust the BTC economy already is.

---

If I could be convinced that the parallel market could survive a totalitarian government wanting to control all we do, I'd be all on board the Bitcoin train. My concern right now is that people are accepting that BTC because they know they can convert that to local currency. If we waive a magic wand today and that ability went away, would that alternate market continue to move forward? If so, I'd genuinely love to hear how.

---

Ok so let's play this out. Is it the US government that goes full CCP and bans BTC? If so, how are they going to ban it? Like be specific on how that's going to be accomplished?

---

Again, programmable CBDCs. They will have the ability to literally make you incapable of giving away your CBDCs for a BTC if they so choose. Drugs, guns and other contraband can still be sold because of paper transactions. That paper is then laundered and re-enters the market and ready for use on legal goods.

But in a world where there is no potential for paper transactions and all transactions were not only monitored but programmable, you swipe your card and nothing happens. You just can't. Want to buy too much alcohol? You can't. Want to buy your 10th pizza this week? You can't. Want to buy a BTC. You can't. And if a seller knows no one can give him legal tender for the illicit BTC he's about to receive no matter how much they may want to, why would he take it?

It's not about jail time. It's about the sheer inability to conduct the transaction. For the record, I think this level of micro managing is much further away than the fear mongers would say because I think the populace wouldn't accept it in such a rushed way. But it's very likely coming at some points

---

In your scenario BTC is 100% banned in the US, cash is banned in the US and all transactions must take place with CBDCs. Yeah, if it gets that far, yes you are correct we are screwed if we remain in the US. But, I have my seed phrase and my family and I escape to El Salvador, then we can start over. There's is no 100% fool proof way to ban BTC. There is no way to brute force the network. It is the insurance policy against tyranny. it is the way to opt-out of the current and coming system. And it may not be an easy opt-out.

As a side note, with the amount of money and effort being sunk into BTC in Texas I don't think Texas goes along with the US and bans it. The genie is out of the bottle.

---

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

I see you still haven't learned anything about the blocksize wars, don't know what UASF is, nor how BIP protocols get implemented.

Ngmi

---

You clearly missed the "that matters" part.


Bitcoin users don't give a crap about block sizes or protocols or any of that crap. That would be like voting stock holders caring about the color of the HQ carpet.

---

Yeah it clearly wasn't a civil war of sorts resulting in multiple forks and such. Definitely no one cared.

---

I didn't say nobody cared. But the VAST majority of 330M+ Americans, that you people expect to someday use bitcoin wouldn't. All they care about is how useful is it as money.

And the answer to that is clearly: it is not useful at all as money.

---

Yeah. The vast majority aren't bitcoin users, 100m alleged users versus 8Billion people.

Americans, due to the collusion between media, big tech (big anything really), politicians, and regulators have no idea what is real or not anymore. And minimal willpower to explore outside their lanes. Just look at this thread.

---

So if only people "explored outside their lanes" then bitcoin wouldn't be the joke that it is today?

---

Quote:

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Good money shouldn't require somebody to have a deep understanding crypto algorithms to use it. If you are depending on that, then you should just sell all your bitcoin now and admit your failure.

Yet, people for thousands of years have been able to use gold without even being able to read. Maybe that is why it has been the most successful form of money in world history.

---

It's been a week since I got back from my 2nd trip to El Salvador and I already can't wait to go back.

Nothing like living on a #bitcoin standard 🧡 Who said LN doesn't work? ⚡️@AdoptingBTC @Bitcoinbeach @walletofsatoshi @BTCBeachWallet @Strike @nayibbukele pic.twitter.com/maWEtbOsOD

— Carla 🧡⚡ (@HodlingCarla) November 28, 2022

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own.

---

This is what people\companies are building now. I went to the Texas Blockchain summit in Austin a few weeks ago. Yes, BTC price is down but there is a robust infrastructure being built out that most people are ignorant exists. And for every one of these solutions that is being built on the back of BTC\Lightning it provides value to the system.

I would sell you a car in BTC today, AE might have another item or service that he would gladly take BTC for. I think if you did some digging you might be surprised how robust the BTC economy already is.

---

If I could be convinced that the parallel market could survive a totalitarian government wanting to control all we do, I'd be all on board the Bitcoin train. My concern right now is that people are accepting that BTC because they know they can convert that to local currency. If we waive a magic wand today and that ability went away, would that alternate market continue to move forward? If so, I'd genuinely love to hear how.

---

Ok so let's play this out. Is it the US government that goes full CCP and bans BTC? If so, how are they going to ban it? Like be specific on how that's going to be accomplished?

---

Again, programmable CBDCs. They will have the ability to literally make you incapable of giving away your CBDCs for a BTC if they so choose. Drugs, guns and other contraband can still be sold because of paper transactions. That paper is then laundered and re-enters the market and ready for use on legal goods.

But in a world where there is no potential for paper transactions and all transactions were not only monitored but programmable, you swipe your card and nothing happens. You just can't. Want to buy too much alcohol? You can't. Want to buy your 10th pizza this week? You can't. Want to buy a BTC. You can't. And if a seller knows no one can give him legal tender for the illicit BTC he's about to receive no matter how much they may want to, why would he take it?

It's not about jail time. It's about the sheer inability to conduct the transaction. For the record, I think this level of micro managing is much further away than the fear mongers would say because I think the populace wouldn't accept it in such a rushed way. But it's very likely coming at some points

---

In your scenario BTC is 100% banned in the US, cash is banned in the US and all transactions must take place with CBDCs AND ALL PRODUCTION (FOOD, INDUSTRY, OIL&GAS IS TRACKED 100% ACCURATELY SO THERE IS NO WAY FOR SOMEONE TO BARTER LABOR FOR PRODUCTS. Yeah, if it gets that far, yes you are correct we are screwed if we remain in the US. But, I have my seed phrase and my family and I escape to El Salvador, then we can start over. There's is no 100% fool proof way to ban BTC. There is no way to brute force the network. It is the insurance policy against tyranny. it is the way to opt-out of the current and coming system. And it may not be an easy opt-out.

As a side note, with the amount of money and effort being sunk into BTC in Texas I don't think Texas goes along with the US and bans it. The genie is out of the bottle.

---

Not Coach Jimbo said:

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Not going to read the 5 pages of (mostly) people that don't understand what btc was designed for/how it works. I'm sure someone has already gone on this tear, nonetheless...

Btc was never intended to be used for daily transactions. It's desgined as a store of wealth that isn't manipulated by a government.

People that buy gold don't expect to sell it quickly or use it to pay for groceries. Btc was never intended to fill the void that these doomsday articles say its failing to meet.

Other cryptos are designed to be capable to fill the void the OPs article references. The investments by Visa into Eth show that they at least believe it may have a usage in the future.

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Fireman said:

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This is the key point to understand in regards with Bitcoin. It's the life raft for your wealth. If and when SHTF, you can't take dollars with you, and they might be worthless anyway, you can't take gold with you in any measurable quantity, you can't take land or real estate with you as you flee to safety. What you can take with you is bitcoin, and in many SHTF situations, you don't care about converting your BTC to a currency, which is worthless, you trade Bitcoin with other users, as at that point 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin.

When SHFT, I want weapons, ammunition and bitcoin. If you want dollars, gold and real estate or a high limit credit card - good on you. There will be a point in time that you wish your wealth was easily portable like bitcoin, and most of us may wish we had more ammo.

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Adverse Event said:

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You magic wanded the actual difficult parts, fyi.

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javajaws said:

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Fireman said:

---

This is the key point to understand in regards with Bitcoin. It's the life raft for your wealth. If and when SHTF, you can't take dollars with you, and they might be worthless anyway, you can't take gold with you in any measurable quantity, you can't take land or real estate with you as you flee to safety. What you can take with you is bitcoin, and in many SHTF situations, you don't care about converting your BTC to a currency, which is worthless, you trade Bitcoin with other users, as at that point 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin.

When SHFT, I want weapons, ammunition and bitcoin. If you want dollars, gold and real estate or a high limit credit card - good on you. There will be a point in time that you wish your wealth was easily portable like bitcoin, and most of us may wish we had more ammo.

---

In many SHTF situations you won't have access to power or the internet to do anything with that BTC. So good luck with that.

---

javajaws said:

---

Fireman said:

---

This is the key point to understand in regards with Bitcoin. It's the life raft for your wealth. If and when SHTF, you can't take dollars with you, and they might be worthless anyway, you can't take gold with you in any measurable quantity, you can't take land or real estate with you as you flee to safety. What you can take with you is bitcoin, and in many SHTF situations, you don't care about converting your BTC to a currency, which is worthless, you trade Bitcoin with other users, as at that point 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin.

When SHFT, I want weapons, ammunition and bitcoin. If you want dollars, gold and real estate or a high limit credit card - good on you. There will be a point in time that you wish your wealth was easily portable like bitcoin, and most of us may wish we had more ammo.

---

In many SHTF situations you won't have access to power or the internet to do anything with that BTC. So good luck with that.

---

IMO USD has already lost its status as world reserve currency. It's just gonna take another ~10 yrs or so for everybody to see it.

— Jason Lowery (@JasonPLowery) November 30, 2022

MR Gadsden said:

---

javajaws said:

---

Fireman said:

---

This is the key point to understand in regards with Bitcoin. It's the life raft for your wealth. If and when SHTF, you can't take dollars with you, and they might be worthless anyway, you can't take gold with you in any measurable quantity, you can't take land or real estate with you as you flee to safety. What you can take with you is bitcoin, and in many SHTF situations, you don't care about converting your BTC to a currency, which is worthless, you trade Bitcoin with other users, as at that point 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin.

When SHFT, I want weapons, ammunition and bitcoin. If you want dollars, gold and real estate or a high limit credit card - good on you. There will be a point in time that you wish your wealth was easily portable like bitcoin, and most of us may wish we had more ammo.

---

In many SHTF situations you won't have access to power or the internet to do anything with that BTC. So good luck with that.

---

Then how are CBDCs going to work?

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javajaws said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

javajaws said:

---

Fireman said:

---

This is the key point to understand in regards with Bitcoin. It's the life raft for your wealth. If and when SHTF, you can't take dollars with you, and they might be worthless anyway, you can't take gold with you in any measurable quantity, you can't take land or real estate with you as you flee to safety. What you can take with you is bitcoin, and in many SHTF situations, you don't care about converting your BTC to a currency, which is worthless, you trade Bitcoin with other users, as at that point 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin.

When SHFT, I want weapons, ammunition and bitcoin. If you want dollars, gold and real estate or a high limit credit card - good on you. There will be a point in time that you wish your wealth was easily portable like bitcoin, and most of us may wish we had more ammo.

---

In many SHTF situations you won't have access to power or the internet to do anything with that BTC. So good luck with that.

---

Then how are CBDCs going to work?

---

I never said they would?

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aTmAg said:

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Oh, so then I guess you are saying that it takes understanding crypto algorithms to realize that bitcoin supposedly doesn't suck? That otherwise all of America would be using it? It doesn't take that sort of knowledge to look at a graph and see ridiculous instability. It's not lack of understanding that makes bitcoin suck, it's bitcoins suckiness that makes it suck.


Bitcoin has shown to be more like a high risk dot-com stock than digital gold. If bitcoin really was a better gold than gold, then it would up or at least be stable during this time of inflation rather than down over 70%. Just go look at your guys predictions 5 or 10 years ago. You could not have been more wrong.

---

Quote:

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Bitcoin's volatility falls below Nasdaq and S&P 500s for first time since 2020

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Adverse Event said:

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It doesn't matter if you're convinced or not.

Take the first step and buy some and move it off an exchange and **** around and find out.

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The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

MR Gadsden said:

---

The Banned said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Why is the assumption YOU HAVE TO CONVERT BACK TO [local currency].

That's a poor assumption.

---

There would need to be a robust economy in which the Bitcoin they received in exchange for their good or service could buy them the things they want to legally own.

---

This is what people\companies are building now. I went to the Texas Blockchain summit in Austin a few weeks ago. Yes, BTC price is down but there is a robust infrastructure being built out that most people are ignorant exists. And for every one of these solutions that is being built on the back of BTC\Lightning it provides value to the system.

I would sell you a car in BTC today, AE might have another item or service that he would gladly take BTC for. I think if you did some digging you might be surprised how robust the BTC economy already is.

---

If I could be convinced that the parallel market could survive a totalitarian government wanting to control all we do, I'd be all on board the Bitcoin train. My concern right now is that people are accepting that BTC because they know they can convert that to local currency. If we waive a magic wand today and that ability went away, would that alternate market continue to move forward? If so, I'd genuinely love to hear how.

---

Ok so let's play this out. Is it the US government that goes full CCP and bans BTC? If so, how are they going to ban it? Like be specific on how that's going to be accomplished?

---

Again, programmable CBDCs. They will have the ability to literally make you incapable of giving away your CBDCs for a BTC if they so choose. Drugs, guns and other contraband can still be sold because of paper transactions. That paper is then laundered and re-enters the market and ready for use on legal goods.

But in a world where there is no potential for paper transactions and all transactions were not only monitored but programmable, you swipe your card and nothing happens. You just can't. Want to buy too much alcohol? You can't. Want to buy your 10th pizza this week? You can't. Want to buy a BTC. You can't. And if a seller knows no one can give him legal tender for the illicit BTC he's about to receive no matter how much they may want to, why would he take it?

It's not about jail time. It's about the sheer inability to conduct the transaction. For the record, I think this level of micro managing is much further away than the fear mongers would say because I think the populace wouldn't accept it in such a rushed way. But it's very likely coming at some points

---

Adverse Event said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Oh, so then I guess you are saying that it takes understanding crypto algorithms to realize that bitcoin supposedly doesn't suck? That otherwise all of America would be using it? It doesn't take that sort of knowledge to look at a graph and see ridiculous instability. It's not lack of understanding that makes bitcoin suck, it's bitcoins suckiness that makes it suck.


Bitcoin has shown to be more like a high risk dot-com stock than digital gold. If bitcoin really was a better gold than gold, then it would up or at least be stable during this time of inflation rather than down over 70%. Just go look at your guys predictions 5 or 10 years ago. You could not have been more wrong.

---

I'll wait for you to find one of my predictions on price, about 5 years ago I stopped caring about price.

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Quote:

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Ahhh it's so volatile!

Quote:

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Bitcoin's volatility falls below Nasdaq and S&P 500s for first time since 2020

---

---