Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Ah, so credit cards aren't real money either, by your logic.

We can be done with the discussion.

---

What?!

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Who is this "they" you speak of?

Money is bitcoin, bitcoin isn't money.

Bitcoin is a Swiss army knife of different things, money. Asset, investment is only a portion of the tools within.

---

What the hell does "money is bitcoin" supposed to mean?

That's like saying "mammal is cat". Or more accurately, "mammal is goldfish".

Something being money means that it has certain qualities such as being a good long term store, being divisible, etc. Things are either good at being money or they are suck at it. Bitcoin sucks at it. Which is why nobody uses it as money. Which is what bitcoin was created to be in the first place. The Swiss army of things things do not matter unless it has all the qualities that make it good as money. Bitcoin doesn't.

---

Okay buddy.

You didn't answer the question though. Who are the "they" you speak ? Links?

Kvetch said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Ah, so credit cards aren't real money either, by your logic.

We can be done with the discussion.

---

Credit cards are not thin air. TF are you talking about.

---

Explain how a credit card works, in depth.

Idgaf or even have an opinion on bitcoin but you'd better ****ing wake up to the attack on cash because it is a short, straight ass ****ing one way line to a world worse than Orwell could have dreamed and it's coming FAST

Yes.

Bitcoin value is based on group psychology.

Fear.

1. FOMO
2. Fear that government backed currency will be devalued.

On point 2, we have record inflation and yet Bitcoin is at 2 year lows. Bitcoin as an inflation hedge has been proven wrong.

That leaves point number 1 being the main driver of the price.

And Bitcoin has run out of new adopters. When crypto has Super Bowl adds running then crypto and Bitcoin has achieved its maximum reach. Demand generated by finding new adopters has reached its end.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

The concept of "underlying value" is meaningless. Things either have value or they do not.

The dollar is not backed by anything either, but it still has a crapton of value as money (which is very damn useful).

Bitcoin does not have value as money, as people don't really use it that way. It's ONLY value is as a speculative asset. So owners of bitcoin are simply hoping to find a bigger fool to sell it to later. That is nonviable.

---

It has value because it doesn't require trust, the basis of every other currency out there right now. It can be moved instantaneously, it doesn't corrode, it can be split into millions of smaller units. All which give it value. It's a non-depreciating asset.

---

Yet none of that adds up to people using it as money. Only through becoming money does BTC gain the possibility of being viable. As long as it is volatile as hell, it will be a crappy long term store of value and therefore crappy at being money,

When the dollar loses it's role as the best currency (which it will), people will transition to the next best option. Is that bitcoin? Sure as hell doesn't seem that way. As even most BTC advocates have stopped making that claim. They now argue it is merely an investment.

---

I wasn't arguing that. I was pointing out that your statement that Bitcoin only has value as a speculative asset is ridiculous. I don't support it becoming a currency, but it has many things that make it a valuable one.

I would prefer our dollar was backed by it in 10-20 years

---

Gold has value as jewelry, in electronics, etc. AND as money. So if gold somehow lost it's value as money (for the first time in world history), then it would still have those other uses to retain value.

Bitcoin has no alternatives like that. The only 2 reasons people own bitcoin today is that: 1) they believe it will someday be used as money or 2) that they hope to sell it to some other dupe later. #1 is looking more and more like an extremely long shot. Leaving #2 for most.

And why would they back the dollar with bitcoin when bitcoin is unstable as hell? Might as well back it on tulips or beanie babies.

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Ah, so credit cards aren't real money either, by your logic.

We can be done with the discussion.

---

Credit cards are not thin air. TF are you talking about.

---

Explain how a credit card works, in depth.

---

https://www.investopedia.com/how-do-credit-cards-work-5025119

Knock yourself out, bud. Your 1s and 0s attack on credit cards is the epitome of irony.

Adverse Event said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Who is this "they" you speak of?

Money is bitcoin, bitcoin isn't money.

Bitcoin is a Swiss army knife of different things, money. Asset, investment is only a portion of the tools within.

---

What the hell does "money is bitcoin" supposed to mean?

That's like saying "mammal is cat". Or more accurately, "mammal is goldfish".

Something being money means that it has certain qualities such as being a good long term store, being divisible, etc. Things are either good at being money or they are suck at it. Bitcoin sucks at it. Which is why nobody uses it as money. Which is what bitcoin was created to be in the first place. The Swiss army of things things do not matter unless it has all the qualities that make it good as money. Bitcoin doesn't.

---

Okay buddy.

You didn't answer the question though. Who are the "they" you speak ? Links?

---

Everybody who owns bitcoin and who do not use it to buy food, houses, etc. They own it in hopes to sell it it at a higher price later. Not because they are paying their mortgage in bitcoin.

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

aTmAg said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Who is this "they" you speak of?

Money is bitcoin, bitcoin isn't money.

Bitcoin is a Swiss army knife of different things, money. Asset, investment is only a portion of the tools within.

---

What the hell does "money is bitcoin" supposed to mean?

That's like saying "mammal is cat". Or more accurately, "mammal is goldfish".

Something being money means that it has certain qualities such as being a good long term store, being divisible, etc. Things are either good at being money or they are suck at it. Bitcoin sucks at it. Which is why nobody uses it as money. Which is what bitcoin was created to be in the first place. The Swiss army of things things do not matter unless it has all the qualities that make it good as money. Bitcoin doesn't.

---

Okay buddy.

You didn't answer the question though. Who are the "they" you speak ? Links?

---

Everybody who owns bitcoin and who do not use it to buy food, houses, etc. They own it in hopes to sell it it at a higher price later. Not because they are paying their mortgage in bitcoin.

---

Exactly. You know it's a scam because there is an incentive to "get in early" so that you can profit off its appreciation as it becomes more scarce. It's a speculative digital asset. Not currency.

Kvetch said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Ah, so credit cards aren't real money either, by your logic.

We can be done with the discussion.

---

Credit cards are not thin air. TF are you talking about.

---

Explain how a credit card works, in depth.

---

https://www.investopedia.com/how-do-credit-cards-work-5025119

Knock yourself out, bud. Your 1s and 0s attack on credit cards is the epitome of irony.

---

Here's a picture for you, maybe it'll make more sense.


[Checks with bank] "Please sir, might I use my money?

With bitcoin, nobody can deny the transaction.

Burdizzo said:

---

Please accept thin air as tender for your goods and services. It has the same amount of trust at Bitcoin.

---

Excepting thin air is exactly what you are doing with the US dollar (aka the Federal Reserve Note).

It's backed by nothing than a "promise" and the US military.

bmks270 said:

---

Yes.

Bitcoin value is based on group psychology.

Fear.

1. FOMO
2. Fear that government backed currency will be devalued.

On point 2, we have record inflation and yet Bitcoin is at 2 year lows. Bitcoin as an inflation hedge has been proven wrong.

That leaves point number 1 being the main driver of the price.

And Bitcoin has run out of new adopters. When crypto has Super Bowl adds running then crypto and Bitcoin has achieved its maximum reach. Demand generated by finding new adopters has reached its end.

---

bitcoin is a hedge against monetary debasement (what inflation actually is), not consumer price increases.

there are something like 100 million people who own bitcoin. the idea that adoption has peaked with a global TAM is laughable.

I look forward to the threads by the same people in this thread in 2035 complaining about how it's not fair that most of the bitcoin in the world is being hoarded away by early adopters. Was already starting to see that before the last crash, and it will continue to grow worse after the next Halfing.

AND BITCOIN DOESN'T SOLVE ANY OF THOSE PROBLEMS.

Signel said:

---

wbt5845 said:

---

Bitcoin's highest best use is still for large, illegal transactions.

---

Same as cash?

Guess what they will get rid of next?

I am always amused by all the conservatives in here that don't see the value in having another asset class that that you can make money on that isn't controled by the government. You know, the one that we all complain about creating inflation at an inflating rate?

The real underlying value is the fact that it isn't managed by Biden and the Fed, or eventually whomever you dislike. So what if crack heads use it to buy their drugs.

---

Its useless as a currency because it's way to volatile, until it has a somewhat steady value it's useless as a currency. There is also no transparency on what it actually is, how it's "mined", who regulates it, etc.

I'm all for less government but government does have a purpose and one of those is to regulate currency. Bitcoin is some mystery fad that has no fundamentals and nothing more than a casino game of chicken to unsophisticated investors.

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Ah, so credit cards aren't real money either, by your logic.

We can be done with the discussion.

---

Credit cards are not thin air. TF are you talking about.

---

Explain how a credit card works, in depth.

---

https://www.investopedia.com/how-do-credit-cards-work-5025119

Knock yourself out, bud. Your 1s and 0s attack on credit cards is the epitome of irony.

---

Here's a picture for you, maybe it'll make more sense.

---

You forgot the part where 0.3 BTC is 0.6 BTC tomorrow and the price of the lunch is $40 to account for the risk. Also, the fees for processing credit card transactions are the price of the risk, which is minuscule compared to the alternative. Access to credit has made this nation richer and the standard of living greater than any human civilization in history.

The only world in which your graphic makes sense is a world of ubiquitous Bitcoin adoption, which will never happen for a myriad of reasons. Let me know when you have a real world argument and not a theoretical one. There plenty of theoretical innovations that would improve markets that will just never happen.

Quote:

---

There is also no transparency on what it actually is, how it's "mined", who regulates it, etc.

---

there is complete transparency on what bitcoin is, how it is mined, etc. it is literally open source code.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

I look forward to the threads by the same people in this thread in 2035 complaining about how it's not fair that most of the bitcoin in the world is being hoarded away by early adopters. Was already starting to see that before the last crash, and it will continue to grow worse after the next Halfing.

---

I might start advertising rickety chairs and rope on texags at that point.

Kvetch said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Ah, so credit cards aren't real money either, by your logic.

We can be done with the discussion.

---

Credit cards are not thin air. TF are you talking about.

---

Explain how a credit card works, in depth.

---

https://www.investopedia.com/how-do-credit-cards-work-5025119

Knock yourself out, bud. Your 1s and 0s attack on credit cards is the epitome of irony.

---

Here's a picture for you, maybe it'll make more sense.

---

You forgot the part where 0.3 BTC is 0.6 BTC tomorrow and the price of the lunch is $40 to account for the risk. Also, the fees for processing credit card transactions are the price of the risk, which is minuscule compared to the alternative. Access to credit has made this nation richer and the standard of living greater than any human civilization in history.

The only world in which your graphic makes sense is a world of ubiquitous Bitcoin adoption, which will never happen for a myriad of reasons. Let me know when you have a real world argument and not a theoretical one. There plenty of theoretical innovations that would improve markets that will just never happen.

---

I think this picture is 7 or more years old. Multiple nations have adopted bitcoin as a national currency, and many more have laws accepting it for taxes and legal tender. Brazil being the latest.

Adverse Event said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

I look forward to the threads by the same people in this thread in 2035 complaining about how it's not fair that most of the bitcoin in the world is being hoarded away by early adopters. Was already starting to see that before the last crash, and it will continue to grow worse after the next Halfing.

---

I might start advertising rickety chairs and rope on texags at that point.

---

You are advertising one of the largest issues of finite currency as if it's a reason to invest early. Let them eat cake, right?

Have fun thriving in your third world Bitcoin countries. Notice that it's only taking hold in places where their national currency is complete garbage and where corruption as common as breathing.

Also, it's not doing well in those places last I heard.

looks like if someone wants to pay with bitcoin, the seller should tack on a 50% of purchase transaction fee, then
convert to standard currency as soon as possible

I remember there was a guy that posted here on one of the crypto threads who dumped his whole retirement and savings into crypto. I hope he is doing well

Kvetch said:

---

If that's the route they go, then we have bigger issues than cash. Also, paper money too bulky, heavy, and can be markedand gold too heavy, bulky, when converted to cash you lose up to 20% of valuewill still be better black market alternatives than Bitcoin. If the government is going full gestapo, the last thing I need is a fully transparent blockchain of transactions.

There's no disconnect. I just don't buy into the Bitcoin fanboy talking points. It's like doomsday preppers but without accumulating any meaningful assets that will aid in survival. If we go full banana republic, your alternative currency ain't going to save you.

---

There are several other digital assets that will be an improvement on BTC. Assets that either move faster or are a better store of information.

Crypto assets are useful because they can store immense amounts of information and will be the core of the next iteration of the web which will focus on interconnectivity of devices directly rather than utilizing servers as the primary mediators and go between.

I have not invested in BTC, but have started to accumulate crypto with real world function and utility.

It is a speculative market. But my IRA's are pretty stocked at the moment and all crypto have come down enough that accumulating is cheap.

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Adverse Event said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

Definitely Not A Cop said:

---

Ah, so credit cards aren't real money either, by your logic.

We can be done with the discussion.

---

Credit cards are not thin air. TF are you talking about.

---

Explain how a credit card works, in depth.

---

https://www.investopedia.com/how-do-credit-cards-work-5025119

Knock yourself out, bud. Your 1s and 0s attack on credit cards is the epitome of irony.

---

Here's a picture for you, maybe it'll make more sense.


[Checks with bank] "Please sir, might I use my money?

With bitcoin, nobody can deny the transaction.

---

I can refuse to take a currency I don't trust

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

If that's the route they go, then we have bigger issues than cash. Also, paper money too bulky, heavy, and can be markedand gold too heavy, bulky, when converted to cash you lose up to 20% of valuewill still be better black market alternatives than Bitcoin. If the government is going full gestapo, the last thing I need is a fully transparent blockchain of transactions.

There's no disconnect. I just don't buy into the Bitcoin fanboy talking points. It's like doomsday preppers but without accumulating any meaningful assets that will aid in survival. If we go full banana republic, your alternative currency ain't going to save you.

---

There are several other digital assets that will be an improvement on BTC. Assets that either move faster or are a better store of information.

Crypto assets are useful because they can store immense amounts of information and will be the core of the next iteration of the web which will focus on interconnectivity of devices directly rather than utilizing servers as the primary mediators and go between.

I have not invested in BTC, but have started to accumulate crypto with real world function and utility.

It is a speculative market. But my IRA's are pretty stocked at the moment and all crypto have come down enough that accumulating is cheap.

---

I think this is going down in flames before our eyes. Web3 hasn't provided a better mousetrap for pretty much any use case. Blockchain was all the rage 5 years ago and so many of those projects have been quietly abandoned.

MuchosPollos said:

---

Burdizzo said:

---

Please accept thin air as tender for your goods and services. It has the same amount of trust at Bitcoin.

---

Excepting thin air is exactly what you are doing with the US dollar (aka the Federal Reserve Note).

It's backed by nothing than a "promise" and the US military.

---

Bitcoin has neither a promise nor a military.

It also has no trust according to a poster here.

I'm driving my flying car that I was promised in the 1980s. And I think my tulip bulb investments may finally pay off.

I'm sure you can make money off it, and many people have, but don't mistake mania and speculation for underlying value. I'll invest in blockchain for non-currency uses like smart contracts. Crypto in its current form as currency is just ridiculous. It's a regression from fiat currency in almost every measurable category except for transaction fees.

Kvetch said:

---

If that's the route they go, then we have bigger issues than cash. Also, paper money and gold will still be better black market alternatives than Bitcoin. If the government is going full gestapo, the last thing I need is a fully transparent blockchain of transactions.

There's no disconnect. I just don't buy into the Bitcoin fanboy talking points. It's like doomsday preppers but without accumulating any meaningful assets that will aid in survival. If we go full banana republic, your alternative currency ain't going to save you.

---

This is where I'm at. If bitcoin is supposed to help personas non grata purchase things on some black market, what happens if the government says bitcoin can't be converted to CBDCs? To keep it simple, let's say a loaf of bread costs one bitcoin. I give you one bitcoin for that loaf of bread. What are you going to do with it? Buy more bread at half a coin? if you purchased that bread wholesale for half a coin, what is the supplier you bought from supposed to do with it if it has no ability to give you value in the marketplace like it does today. The government very easily could do that, and if the asset can't be liquidated to use on licit purchases, then it isn't an asset. I can stack coins for days, but I won't be able to pay my mortgage with it if the government makes it illegal to convert it to CBDCs.

Unless we're talking full parallel economies, i just don't see it as an emergency plan. Investment maybe, but that's it. In this nightmare scenario, only having some self sustaining farm in a state with no property taxes could possibly work. That or following the governments mandates.

Well then you get into whether Proof of Stake or Proof of work is the better system.

Proof of stake which is what most ETH crypto are based on is more easily hackable but transactions move faster.

Proof of work is more secure but slower. There are a few crypto that have come out that are POW based that have solved the problem of the blockchain bottleneck so they move quickly (in seconds) and provide the security of POW. Smart contracts and the ability to provide a secure and unhackable way to do them is a huge draw here.

Then you have ledger coins which can be used to circumvent the current lag time in resolving bank transactions.

The latter two are quietly being worked on and refined with financial institutions creating their own ledger coin (JP MORGAN has been testing their own) to speed up transactions.

At least based on my understanding:
The idea here is that the financial institutions ledger coin will be sent to a hub to be converted to a universal ledger coin which will then be sent to the other financial institution and if necessary converted to their ledger coin or in the case of international transactions the local currency be it digital or fiat.

This way all transactions are recorded and can be done in seconds versus the curren 2-3 day lag which is one of the big bottle necks of the current financial system- the 2-3 days it takes to resolve accounts.

I am not a fanboy. I simply see the financial system trying to solve a problem with tech and think the solution is there....especially with several financial institutions creating their own ledger coins.

It's simple,
Learn how to use freedom money,

or

live in the totalitarianism wet dream of CBDC money.

Carry on.

Adverse Event said:

---

Imagine yourself, or your parents or grandparents toiling night and day to save a significant amount of wealth for retirement or for the future of their children. Now imagine that a random doxxed post on texags or Twitter or a verbal quip to a neighbor results in being reported to the CBDC Office.

After review, they've decided that you or your parents/gpatents are persona non grata. They remove your ability to access any of that stored value, they remove your ability to buy anything. If it's uncovered that you found a friendly neighbor or family member to subvert their policy, now the entire family and close contacts get removal of ability to buy anything.

THINK OF THE COMPLIANCE.

---

lol, are you seriously fearful of this sort of thing happening here?

Proof of Work.

Ur right. Corrected.