aggiehawg said:

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Keegan99 said:

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So let's see the video of multiple drops in the same day by the same individual.

There is no reason to hold it back at this point.


Their methods may be sound, but their messaging sucks. They either don't have the goods or are terrible at making a public case.

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So your position is that the unique devices that went to multiple drop boxes multiple times in one day in Milwaukee were people passing their cell phones around to other people?

See my post above at the time indicated on the presentation in Wisconsin. And yes, the movie really messed up in their presentation.

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No, my position is they suck at messaging and making a public case.

Would you agree that what was presented deserves an actual inquiry and investigation?

Ellis Wyatt said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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nortex97 said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Plot twist. The ballot box fraud was all Trumpanzees. He lost by more!

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Oh look, our resident fake conservative taking a swipe yet again at Trump voters. Shocked, shocked I am.

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It's too easy. Oh come one, it's a joke.

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Seriously, I don't think there is anything remotely funny about fraudulent elections. I want us to do everything possible to eliminate voter fraud. We are becoming a banana republic and one political party is driving it.

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yeah, but eliminating voter fraud is racist voter suppression somehow. Therefore, the left will continue to fight tooth and nail to prevent audits, stop election integrity bills, and make sure anti-fraud controls like showing an ID can't be put in place.

Did you actually read your links or my question?

Yes, I understand there was an actual, real, little girl named Secoriea Turner who was murdered. I also understand that in reality there were two arrests made.

I want to know if there is any third-party validation of the True The Vote claim that they had anything to do with pointing law enforcement in the right direction with the use of their data tracking tools--THAT SPECIFICALLY was what I asked about.

Your linked stories (that I actually read, btw...probably makes one of us) mention nothing about that.

TheHulkster said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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TheHulkster said:

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True The Vote also seems to assert that it was their organization that cracked the case on the murder of Secoriea Turner using these same cell phone data mining techniques.

Has anyone seen any confirmation on that? I'm finding nothing.

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They never said they "cracked the case". They supplied the information they had to detectives handling the case, and two arrests were made. True The Vote is wise in leaving it at that as it prevents legal blow back. I took from that situation that our police may not have the technology to do that sort of geo-fencing.

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Yes, "cracked the case" were my words, not theirs.

What they specifically say about the case starts at 33:45 of the film.

"We choose to look at two murders that were ebbing on cold case status...we bought the data and the team got to work. ..We turned the bulk of this information over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation."

I think it's clear that True The Vote credits themselves with cracking the case, no? A case that was "ebbing on cold case status" before they got involved now has two suspects in custody.

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Ok?

How is that a bad thing?

TheHulkster said:

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Did you actually read your links or my question?

Yes, I understand there was an actual, real, little girl named Secoriea Turner who was murdered. I also understand that in reality there were two arrests made.

I want to know if there is any third-party validation of the True The Vote claim that they had anything to do with pointing law enforcement in the right direction with the use of their data tracking tools--THAT SPECIFICALLY was what I asked about.

Your linked stories (that I actually read, btw...probably makes one of us) mention nothing about that.

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HAHAHA, Wow. How disrespectful to the best poster on this site.

Search it yourself if you care that much.

Again, watch the hearing in Wisconsin HERE. Wisconsin did not have surveillance cameras on drop boxes.

AgBQ-00 said:

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Would you agree that what was presented deserves an actual inquiry and investigation?

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I'm inclined to agree with their argument. I do think what they're alleging happened.

But they have absolutely sucked at making a case and convincing anyone skeptical.

A good presentation should be ironclad. Not having reasonable viewers going "WHY DIDN'T YOU SHOW THE DAMNING VIDEO YOU SAY YOU HAVE?!"

aggiehawg said:

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Again, watch the hearing in Wisconsin HERE. Wisconsin did not have surveillance cameras on drop boxes.

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Ok.

But they say they have video of it happening. Maybe not in Wisconsin.

Why haven't we seen it?

Because they suck at making a public case and messaging. Stop making excuses for it. No one is going to watch arcane testimony in front of a legislative group. That's not how you message effectively.

Keegan99 said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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Would you agree that what was presented deserves an actual inquiry and investigation?

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I'm inclined to agree with their argument. I do think what they're alleging happened.

But they have absolutely sucked at making a case and convincing anyone skeptical.

A good presentation should be ironclad. Not having reasonable viewers going "WHY DIDN'T YOU SHOW THE DAMNING VIDEO YOU SAY YOU HAVE?!"

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OK, cool.

Say it again a few more dozen times.

This movie should prompt major investigations, which was the intent. We will see whether or not we have true justice in this country anymore.

So do you think there should be investigations or not? You've already told us over and over your frustrations with what you'd like to see in the presentation. But, you still have not answered if you think there should be criminal investigations.

WHOOP!'91 said:

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TikkaShooter said:

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Agree. 100%. And that's an assumption we have to make until there is more evidence. But the film makes a lot of connect the dot jumps that don't add up with the evidence provided.

What you're describing is illegal. Yes. Even if done 1x.

But the entire film is built on the premise that thousands of people repeated that act ten fold. 20 fold. More. And the math of those actions swung the election.

And TTV has shown me nothing to prove that math.

I'd also like to know how cell data proves someone is stuff a box with democratic ballots. Do you have to register your party affiliation with your cell phone company?

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The stop at the leftist non-profit before heading to the drop box seems relevant here.

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But do we know that all these devices being tracked went in to these offices, or definitively walked up to the ballot collection boxes, or simply were in close proximity to these places? Part of the issue is identifying how tight the geofence boxes were that they used, particularly if these offices and collection boxes were in heavily trafficked areas like shopping centers or strip mall offices. An Uber/Lyft driver could easily have a device making such routes, dropping off riders in close proximity to the identified sites, yet not be indicative of what TTV is claiming the data reveals.

If they have actual video of people picking up stacks of ballots, and dropping them off at multiple locations, why are we not seeing that in the film?

Funky Winkerbean said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Plot twist. The ballot box fraud was all Trumpanzees. He lost by more!

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You are the last person to be trying to display some keen sense of political awareness.

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He also was the one last week citing utterly crap old analyses that if Roe is reversed crime will increase.

AgBQ-00 said:

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So do you think there should be investigations or not? You've already told us over and over your frustrations with what you'd like to see in the presentation. But, you still have not answered if you think there should be criminal investigations.

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Yes.

But they're not going to happen with the public case made to date.

No one skeptical is going to be convinced.

If you have the goods on a mule making multiple trips, put it out there in a five minute video. Make it bulletproof. Show the drops. On video. Overlay the cell phone tracking. Walk the viewer through "a day in the life of a ballot trafficker".

Yes the tracking used here includes time at location. And is more accurate than what you are thinking.

An example: With my phone, I can look at my location using the GPS. I can zoom in on my location and watch myself in real time walk around my house and it even shows which direction I am facing.
Anyone with my device ID and access to my GPS data can do the exact same thing. This is not tower ping/triangulation.

Keegan99 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Again, watch the hearing in Wisconsin HERE. Wisconsin did not have surveillance cameras on drop boxes.

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Ok.

But they say they have video of it happening. Maybe not in Wisconsin.

Why haven't we seen it?

Because they suck at making a public case and messaging. Stop making excuses for it. No one is going to watch arcane testimony in front of a legislative group. That's not how you message effectively.

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I 100% agree with you.

It was a standard setup for the guy. It's just not very effective story telling for something like this.

Welloiledmachine04 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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AgBQ-00 said:

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Would you agree that what was presented deserves an actual inquiry and investigation?

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I'm inclined to agree with their argument. I do think what they're alleging happened.

But they have absolutely sucked at making a case and convincing anyone skeptical.

A good presentation should be ironclad. Not having reasonable viewers going "WHY DIDN'T YOU SHOW THE DAMNING VIDEO YOU SAY YOU HAVE?!"

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OK, cool.

Say it again a few more dozen times.

This movie should prompt major investigations, which was the intent. We will see whether or not we have true justice in this country anymore.

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If the intent was to prompt investigations, a five minute video like the one I described would be far more effective than an hour-and-a-half preach-to-the-choir film that costs money to watch.

Ok. So see this as a starting point. I suspect they were worried about that approach due to privacy concerns/litigation if they got that specific. But in a criminal investigation, those concerns are mitigated. So with the info that is available, we need to see more and actually push our officials to secure our elections and further to actually investigate this.

Pressure all you want. But it's not going to happen until a damning, bulletproof public case is made that persuades the open-minded but skeptical. So far this group has yet to make that case.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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An Uber/Lyft driver could easily have a device making such routes, dropping off riders in close proximity to the identified sites, yet not be indicative of what TTV is claiming the data reveals.

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Wrong. They did a reverse time going back several years to establish a life pattern. If that unique cell phone ping was routinely in the area before the period of the election, they were excluded.

These are unique cell phone pings that were active in those areas only during the election.

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It's creepy that cell phone companies sell this information to private companies like its no big deal.

BadMoonRisin said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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An Uber/Lyft driver could easily have a device making such routes, dropping off riders in close proximity to the identified sites, yet not be indicative of what TTV is claiming the data reveals.

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Wrong. They did a reverse time going back several years to establish a life pattern. If that unique cell phone ping was routinely in the area before the period of the election, they were excluded.

These are unique cell phone pings that were active in those areas only during the election.

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It's creepy that cell phone companies sell this information to private companies like its no big deal.

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Yes it is. Don't want that type of surveillance, don't download apps. Different apps have differing degrees of geolocation, from a few meters to a single foot or less. That's why the CDC wanted that information to track people during lockdowns. And originally, the app company didn't even charge them for it.

It has nothing to do with apps. This happens at the hardware and OS level.

WHOOP!'91 said:

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Dr. Teeth said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Second, the web site is nearly ready for release within a few weeks or maybe even sooner. That was announced b Phillips and Englebrecht at the Saturday night premiere in Las Vegas.

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So they are going to "release the Kraken" in a few weeks?

I certainly hope so, but I'm done holding my breath for any of this.

Again, if you've got footage of the same person dropping ballots in multiple locations on the same night like you claim in the movie, not including that footage in the movie is inexcusable.

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I will say again: 1 person dropping ballots in a box for anyone other than immediate family is a crime, right there. Even if they don't have "repeat offenders", crimes were committed, illegal ballots were cast. The geodata indicates lots of repeat offenders, though. Let's see what they have or, better yet, there should be a special prosecutor assigned to investigate.

I want to see Mark Zuckerberg in jail and GeorgiAg's vote recipient leaving the WH because he was never elected.

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Say it as many times as you want. Can you say with 100% certainty that gray hoodie guy wasn't dropping off his immediate family's ballots? Nope. You show him that video, and "oh, yeah, that was my mom's and grandma's ballots." You have no way to prove him to be a liar.

There is a difference between "This is what probably what they were doing." and "This is absolutely what they were doing." This film didn't make the latter case. You know what would have though? Video clips of gray hoodie guy, or some other person, showing up at four or five different drop boxes with a handful of ballots... which they claim to have, but didn't include for some reason.

Once again, we are told, we will release it... soon.

Keegan99 said:

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It has nothing to do with apps. This happens at the hardware and OS level.

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Fine, whatever. This investigation has been going on for fifteen months. I have been following it and posting about it in the Election Day thread.

Why are you getting so aggravated when someone is simply stating their position and it happens to be different than what you think it should be? All over this website you act as if what you know or think you know is unfalsifiable fact and if anyone says anything different then they might as well be blaspheming the name of God.

Well that's a little dramatic.

Rockdoc said:

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The left is never gonna accept this movie as anything. They have their orders from the DNC and will deflect as ordered.

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The left is on the side of bringing down America, so of course they won't accept this. The absolute key part though, is that law enforcement does their job and enforces the law whether anti-Americans support election theft or not. Otherwise they are complicit in the steal.

He's on permanent ignore. Works really well since so few people ever quote him.

GeorgiAg said:

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nortex97 said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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Plot twist. The ballot box fraud was all Trumpanzees. He lost by more!

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Oh look, our resident fake conservative taking a swipe yet again at Trump voters. Shocked, shocked I am.

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It's too easy. Oh come one, it's a joke. I still regret my vote in hindsight. Trump was not bad at all on policy issues, but he is still a fragile narcissist.

This election fraud nonsense is dumb.

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This by itself is enough to overturn the election. But this is only one of the ways the election was stolen. What about the thousands of mail-in-ballots that were not folded and would have never been able to fit in the envelope. How does that happen?

100% certainty is not a standard for fraud.

What is the reasonable belief standard that these 2,000 people were taking family member's ballots to multiple drop boxes between 12am and 6am? Hint; it's absurd. That's your standard.

Keegan99 said:

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Pressure all you want. But it's not going to happen until a damning, bulletproof public case is made that persuades the open-minded but skeptical. So far this group has yet to make that case.

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Can we agree that with the information put forth, that public officials should pick up the ball and dig deeper? Have detectives lean on a few people and get them talking? Does it bother you at all that the cities where this took place are doing NOTHING to root out the truth?

From the Wisconsin report.

Quote:

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According to its own report, "TTV is currently investigating ballot harvesting patterns in three of the five Wisconsin cities that received CTCL funding. Specifically, TTV is conducting research and analysis to determine whether, during the two-week period prior to the 2020 election (10/20/20 11/3/20), there was systematic delivery of absentee ballots to drop boxes by intermediaries other than by the absentee voters themselves." The data in the report presented to the State Legislature was TTV's "initial analysis of dropbox traffic data in Milwaukee County." Notably, Wisconsin election statutes do not authorize the use of drop boxes in elections, according to the TTV report. (added by aggiehawg: statute says absentee ballots may only be returned in person to an manned election office or placed into the US mail, period.)


Mail-in ballots, which are "notoriously insecure" as well as the "newly introduced and highly unregulated absentee ballot drop boxes," compromised the integrity of the 2020 election, said Engelbrecht.

Additionally, Engelbrecht explained that the Wisconsin Election Commission (WEC) failed to follow its commitment to securing drop boxes with video surveillance cameras per guidelines prescribed by the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA). (So again, drop boxes were illegal and very unsecure.)

Through open records requests from every municipality, TTV confirmed that the small village of Brown Deer was the only municipality that made video surveillance available from one of its "two drop boxes with a camera that was reasonably close" to the drop boxes. Therefore, TTV decided to make use of "commercially available cell phone data to measure whether or not we could prove that absentee ballot drop boxes were being abused in Wisconsin." Unlike Georgia, TTV reported, Wisconsin law does not require 24/7 video surveillance of drop boxes. (And notably in Georgia, Fulton County responded to a FOIA for that surveillance footage by saying there was no footage available.)

The over $350 million in grants from Zuckerberg's Center for Technology and Civic Life ("CTCL") funded dropboxes for absentee ballots in 2020. In Wisconsin, CTCL distributed over $10.3 million in grants. (Again, these grants were very specific in demanding illegal drop boxes or the money would have to be repaid. Additionally, CTCL took the extra step of embedding their own partisan operators directly into the employ or association of the local election authorities.)

According to TTV, "[a]bout 86% of the funding went to five cities, Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay, Kenosha, and Racine, which they used to provide drop boxes for receiving absentee ballots and other voter assistance."

Prompted by whistleblowers who came forward to report their experiences, TTV decided to purchase "publicly available dropbox surveillance video and commercially available geospatial (mobile device) data generated at CTCL grant-funded drop box locations."

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Quote:

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In summary, Phillips' team targeted a timeline that extended slightly out of the early voting period to develop a more authentic pattern of behavior. The study period was then narrowed to the days between October 20 and November 3. His team found that the studied devices visited an average of "5 NGOs and 26 drop boxes in the study period. 138 devices in total were accurately identified and a total of 3568 unique dropbox visits" were identified.

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Quote:

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In total, "TTV bought 10 trillion cell signals to conduct their investigation," said Phillips. Compiling what is called "a pattern of life," Phillips stated that he can track a unique device ID from one particular phone, adding the "element of time" to track where a phone has been and where they go"what they do," "where they work," and "where they sleep." He said he and his team of 12 have the ability to track the phone, "depending on the app, down as close to a few inches." He added that his team has "primarily focused on Arizona, Georgia, some in Texas, Wisconsin, Milwaukee in particular, Detroit in Michigan, and Philadelphia."

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More at the Link