astros4545 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

For me, this really should be about US - Aggies. Past, current, and future.

---

There would have been no Aggies past about 1892, if there were no Sul Ross.

But you know this, you're just looking to be offended.

---

Textbook example - it is impossible to know. However, you are willing to defend a hunk of metal and stone to the end - is that a correct understanding?

I gave you my answer for relocating - is your reason because no one did more for TAMU than he? Yet here we are a public institution using public money. Your money and mine correct? Do I have any say in how my taxes are spent?

You don't know me - best to keep it between the lines. For the record, I'm not easily offended.

+Pablo

---

Not easily offended maybe

But easily confused

---

Please clarify - lest I presume your intention.

For me - it is crystal clear. We can debate all day.

CanyonAg77 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

For me - it is crystal clear. We can debate all day.

---

---

that quote always bothered me, b/c the statement itself is an absolute.

Pinche Abogado said:

---

What makes it not inviting?

---

I will take your question as sincere - here then is my sincere response:

1. As I mentioned earlier - it would seem that Sul Ross is a lighting rod of sorts. If you didn't have any idea about his history, then you may have passed by his statue and never felt such indignation. When one learns about his past this informs their opinion - then it is very possible that one could feel a variety of emotions towards his "legacy."

2. I have argued that "place" is an important concept to human interaction, which can build up or tear down communities. I feel like we have an opportunity to build up our community. I still have not understood from others why they are against relocating the stature other than because it has always been there.

3. My last point is about a "cult of personality" that I believe this is more the case than others would admit. Instead, I want to make this about us - Aggies. Past, present, and future. We all should dialogue openly and respectfully. I believe we can arrive at a compromise. If not now - one day, who knows.

+pablo

PabloSerna said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

---

You mean like the current statue does?

---

Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should NOT be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

---

I would like to see us remove the reference to his CSA service and cover it with a plaque which provides more detail on his service to A&M.

And I would like to see an additional feature (plaque or other) off to the side that recognizes the unfortunate racial history of our country, state, and A&M.

I would also like to see additional statues which honor and recognize representative minority "firsts" at A&M.

Let's honor Sully for his service to A&M and the state. Let's not erase history and the great contributions of flawed men.

But let's also not whitewash history, and recognize that our country, state, and university wre not inclusive of minorities.

And let's present the image of what the modern A&M is, a welcoming and inclusive environment, complaints by perpetual victims and isolated incidents notwithstanding.

That's the way to handle this. That would actually make for productive, meaningful discussions and symbolism.

CanyonAg77 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

For me - it is crystal clear. We can debate all day.

---

---

Not going down that rabbit hole with you - maybe another day, another forum.

+pablo

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

---

Don't think for a second that Alvard doesn't post here. A guy who violates simple civility instructions from the police so that he can be a "martyr" can't help but tell everyone how wrong they are on a message board.

---

I hope he does, the he knows that he's a beta ****** canoe that couldn't succeed in the private sector and he's still bitter about being shoved into lockers in jr. high.

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

Pinche Abogado said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Pinche Abogado said:

---

What makes it not inviting?

---

I will take your question as sincere - here then is my sincere response:

1. As I mentioned earlier - it would seem that Sul Ross is a lighting rod of sorts. If you didn't have any idea about his history, then you may have passed by his statue and never felt such indignation. When one learns about his past this informs their opinion - then it is very possible that one could feel a variety of emotions towards his "legacy."

2. I have argued that "place" is an important concept to human interaction, which can build up or tear down communities. I feel like we have an opportunity to build up our community. I still have not understood from others why they are against relocating the stature other than because it has always been there.

3. My last point is about a "cult of personality" that I believe this is more the case than others would admit. Instead, I want to make this about us - Aggies. Past, present, and future. We all should dialogue openly and respectfully. I believe we can arrive at a compromise. If not now - one day, who knows.

+pablo

---

But, "place" is also informed by context, is it not? Context of environmental factors, context of geographical locations, etc.

Why is it not appropriate to appreciate Sullivan's dedication in context of the time and place that he lived?

The fact that we are even having this discussion is because of the perpetuated lie of systemic racism, which is the basis for the removal.

Context matters. In 175 years, a person reviewing the decisions made in your life may vehemently disagree with your current worldview, but does that warrant assination of your character? Nope.

---

A similar discussion is happening right now about the Hagia Sophia in Turkey. On a much larger scale. Without a doubt, places and their statues have an impact on their community. As you have noted, a community that continues to evolve. Would it not make sense then to allow for this growing to happen? I would hope that we can have a "both and" type discussion. It would seem that many on here are only for a "this or that" scenario.

Also - responding to Tanya93 - I don't hate TAMU. I am here, because I love TAMU.

+pablo

Tanya 93 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

---

Sensationalism. Why?

deddog said:

---

Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

---

Don't think for a second that Alvard doesn't post here. A guy who violates simple civility instructions from the police so that he can be a "martyr" can't help but tell everyone how wrong they are on a message board.

---

Oh i think he's posting on *this* page.
At his age, if you're still an Associate Professor, it probably means he has a lot of time on his hands.

---

He obviously has plenty of time to go do chalk art every day

Tanya 93 said:

---

DTP02 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

---

You mean like the current statue does?

---

Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should NOT be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

---

I would like to see the base remove the reference to his CSA service and a plaque be affixed over it which provides more detail on his service to A&M.

And I would like to see an additional feature (plaque or other) off to the side that recognizes the racial history of our country, state, and A&M.

And I would like to see additional statues which honor and recognize representative minority firsts at A&M.

Let's honor Sully for his service to A&M. Let's not erase history and the contributions of flawed men.

But let's also not whitewash history and recognize that our country, state, and university wre not inclusive of minorities.

And let's present the image of what the modern A&M is, a welcoming and inclusive environment for all.

That's the way to handle this. That would actually make for productive discussions.

---

Do we have a statue for the first man enrolled at A&M?
The first member of the football team?

The first graduate in engineering?

It is pandering to put minority firsts on the campus.

Honor them, if they deserve it, not being first at something but being the best at something.

---

They would be honored as being representative of a major step forward in inclusiveness for A&M. It's both a recognition of the unfortunate truth that A&M used to be not be inclusive, as well as a testament that such inequality of opportunity is no longer the case.

And the people chosen as the representatives would be Aggies who made an important contribution to A&M by being a racial pioneer in less racially enlightened times, unlike Matthew Gaines who truly would be a mere token.

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

---

Sensationalism. Why?

---

Silver Taps was started to honor racist black people killer Sully.

These hateful racists and bigots will not stop.
They will go after it. Nothing will ever be enough until most of the University is black and Hispanic and all references to its past is eliminated because these "Aggies" claim they are too uncomfortable with campus history and culture

---

Well said ma'am.

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

---

Sensationalism. Why?

---

Silver Taps was started to honor racist black people killer Sully.

These hateful racists and bigots will not stop.
They will go after it. Nothing will ever be enough until most of the University is black and Hispanic and all references to its past is eliminated because these "Aggies" claim they are too uncomfortable with campus history and culture

---

There is a lot to unpack there Tanya93. I'm going to stay on point.

+pablo

I want it to be 1 foot taller than the Sam Houston statue in Huntsville.

Jbob04 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

Nothing will ever be good enough. You give in once, it just makes them keep on coming until they take it all. Never give in to their demands.

---

At least you're honest about it - you drew the line and cut off any discussion.

+pablo

Jbob04 said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

---

Sensationalism. Why?

---

Silver Taps was started to honor racist black people killer Sully.

These hateful racists and bigots will not stop.
They will go after it. Nothing will ever be enough until most of the University is black and Hispanic and all references to its past is eliminated because these "Aggies" claim they are too uncomfortable with campus history and culture

---

Well said ma'am.

---

Really? You truly believe people like me are "hateful racists and bigots"?

+pablo

PabloSerna said:

---

Jbob04 said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

---

Sensationalism. Why?

---

Silver Taps was started to honor racist black people killer Sully.

These hateful racists and bigots will not stop.
They will go after it. Nothing will ever be enough until most of the University is black and Hispanic and all references to its past is eliminated because these "Aggies" claim they are too uncomfortable with campus history and culture

---

Well said ma'am.

---

Really? You truly believe people like me are "hateful racists and bigots"?

+pablo

---

Have I said you are?

No.

Hmmmm....but you assume I am referring to you when I have been very clear on the "ladies" I am discussing.

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

---

Sensationalism. Why?

---

Silver Taps was started to honor racist black people killer Sully.

These hateful racists and bigots will not stop.
They will go after it. Nothing will ever be enough until most of the University is black and Hispanic and all references to its past is eliminated because these "Aggies" claim they are too uncomfortable with campus history and culture

---

There is a lot to unpack there Tanya93. I'm going to stay on point.

+pablo

---

I understand

It is uncomfortable faced with the truth that it will not stop with moving Sully.
Several of them demand it is gone from campus.
Do you really think they will ignore Silver Taps?

No.

If they still have Elephant Walk, they will go after that as well.
Somehow it will be offensive because Elephants aren't native to Texas.

They will never stop. They will graduate and pass this on to those younger and dumber than they are.

---

You asked, allow me to answer:

1. "Do you really think they will ignore Silver Taps?"
Yes. Because while it may have started as a way to honor SLR - it now honors all Aggies. On that point alone - a tradition that will go on.

2. "Somehow it will be offensive because Elephants aren't native to Texas."
Another sensationalist comment. As I am not aware that seniors have used or harmed any actual elephants in the past. When you post stuff like this - hard to take you seriously.

3. "They will graduate and pass this on to those younger and dumber than they are."
By 'they' I can only assume you are referring to Blacks and Hispanics from your previous post. If I were an umpire, I would call this "way outside." It sounds almost like fear in the context of your postings. I read somewhere (TEA?) that Hispanic children account for 52% of the students in Texas elementary public schools. In your lifetime and mine - it will happen and soon. Maybe its because I'm half White, half Hispanic - I am not as concerned. I am more concerned that they do well in school and keep making this state a great place to live. I want them to pay taxes and prosper. I could go on - but I said I would stay on point.

Fear not Tanya93 ! We won't wreck the place :-)

+pablo

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Jbob04 said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

Tanya 93 said:

---

safety guy said:

---

Here's my question. If it is relocated, will that be good enough. Or will there be protests in a year or two to totally remove the statue. There are professional agitators that will never be satisfied and will always look to stir things up.

---

They will be going after Silver Taps next if they get Sully removed from campus

---

Sensationalism. Why?

---

Silver Taps was started to honor racist black people killer Sully.

These hateful racists and bigots will not stop.
They will go after it. Nothing will ever be enough until most of the University is black and Hispanic and all references to its past is eliminated because these "Aggies" claim they are too uncomfortable with campus history and culture

---

Well said ma'am.

---

Really? You truly believe people like me are "hateful racists and bigots"?

+pablo

---

Have I said you are?

No.

Hmmmm....but you assume I am referring to you when I have been very clear on the "ladies" I am discussing.

---

It was posed as a question. Did you miss that in your rush to type?

EDIT to add - I don't believe there are many racist -here or anywhere. At least my definition of them.

Burdizzo said:

---

I just want to say how fortunate I feel to have a front row seat to see the Tanya Evolution.

---

Tanya has had my respect for a very long time.