Pease said:

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DTP02 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Fort Bend County was 80% Majority Black in 1870.

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It was 2/3 black, 1/3 white.

Your numbers are as flawed as your analysis.

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To be fair to his numbers, his analysis is way worse.

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It's not an analysis, it's just a statement of facts, ma'am

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Fort Bend county 1870 Census
77% black
23% white
https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/1870/population/1870a-10.pdf

and Ross is still a Jim Crow racist

CanyonAg77 said:

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A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

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You mean like the current statue does?

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Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should NOT be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

CanyonAg77 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

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You mean like the current statue does?

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Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should not be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

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Why not the center. No one did more for A&M

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A good question and I have a solid reason - In short what is termed a "cult of personality."

From Merriam Webster:

"Cult of personality definition is - a situation in which a public figure (such as a political leader) is deliberately presented to the people of a country as a great person who should be admired and loved."

For me, this really should be about US - Aggies. Past, current, and future.

HTH

+pablo

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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For me, this really should be about US - Aggies. Past, current, and future.

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There would have been no Aggies past about 1892, if there were no Sul Ross.

But you know this, you're just looking to be offended.

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Textbook example - it is impossible to know. However, you are willing to defend a hunk of metal and stone to the end - is that a correct understanding?

I gave you my answer for relocating - is your reason because no one did more for TAMU than he? Yet here we are a public institution using public money. Your money and mine correct? Do I have any say in how my taxes are spent?

You don't know me - best to keep it between the lines. For the record, I'm not easily offended.

+Pablo

Sully is not the center of a cult of personality.

He is an exemplar.

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An exemplar is a person, a place, an object, or some other entity that serves as a predominant example of a given concept

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Soldier, Statesman, Knightly Gentleman.

Sort of like

First in War. First in Peace. First in the hearts of his countrymen.

Or

IN THIS TEMPLE
AS IN THE HEARTS OF THE PEOPLE
FOR WHOM HE SAVED THE UNION
THE MEMORY OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN
IS ENSHRINED FOREVER

Just the same: you are willing to protest to relocate same.

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Textbook example - it is impossible to know.

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https://archive.is/20071016123823/http://theeagle.com/aandmnews/anniversary/1rossbio.htm

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After his term as governor ended in 1890, Ross turned down a chance to become a senator in Washington in order to accept the job of president at the state's struggling 14-year-old land-grant institution.

He arrived in College Station to find that "everything looked cheerless." The campus had no running water, a housing shortage, a disgruntled faculty, and a wild, unruly student body. It had acquired the reputation as a "reform school" for its incorrigible boys.

An editorial in the Galveston Daily News, the state's oldest and largest newspaper at the time of Ross' presidency, went so far as to suggest that the school's agricultural and mechanical departments be transferred to Austin and the remaining infrastructure be used as a "Central Texas lunatic asylum." The feeling was that there was no need for two colleges in the state of Texas.

But Ross' reputation as both a soldier and governor soon earned him the respect of those on campus and persuaded those who felt best to close the school to reconsider.

Parents began sending their sons to Sul Ross the Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas just happened to be where Ross could be found. Ross encouraged students to have pride in their school.
During his tenure, the Aggie ring was created, the Aggie Band formed, the Olio A&M's first yearbook was printed and the first intercollegiate football game was played against the University of Texas at Austin.

It was also during his term that the Corps of Cadets made its first trips, traveling to San Antonio, Houston and the San Jacinto Battlefield.

Ross was so well-respected that one of the Corps' elite groups, the Scott Volunteers, changed its name to the Ross Volunteers. More than 110 years later, the name remains the same and the group's outstanding reputation is known throughout the nation.

By the time of Ross' death on Jan. 3, 1898, he had transformed the college. A Houston Press article written more than 50 years after Ross' death stated that A&M's once insubordinate students and the school's reputation for the first time resembled Ross the man and the words of his own epitaph: "Soldier, Statesman, Knightly Gentleman."

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Sully is not the center of a cult of personality.

He is an exemplar.

Quote:

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An exemplar is a person, a place, an object, or some other entity that serves as a predominant example of a given concept

---

Soldier, Statesman, Knightly Gentleman.

Sort of like

First in War. First in Peace. First in the hearts of his countrymen.

Or

IN THIS TEMPLE
AS IN THE HEARTS OF THE PEOPLE
FOR WHOM HE SAVED THE UNION
THE MEMORY OF ABRAHAM LINCOLN
IS ENSHRINED FOREVER

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After reading about his exaggeration of the Pease River Massacre - I would say he was an opportunist, vain, and conflicted. I am not as impressed with his documented history as you are. We disagree on the level of adulation he should merit - that's all.

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I had never even been inside the Academic Building until my senior year when I took a random Russian language class.

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Do football players even come to that part of campus these days?

Using the mores of today, to judge so many from the past is ignorance personified.

If you want to have a discussion, like this thread, great. If you want to take action on those "modern" thoughts to ACT on past "sins and crimes", the you really do fall into the Orwell category.

When the mantle of our egalitarian and intellectual purists are being used, then it's perfectly fine to wait for them to age, and pour over every single decision and action they have made. We can judge their family, children, and relatives, using the mores of tomorrow, whatever they may be. Knowing their current thinking, which means they have an infallible life during the time they're alive, I'm certain they'll cast aside this thought, but now they've chosen to open the door, it means the floodgates should be open to every decision of their professional and personal life to be acted on by others.

TxAg82 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

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You mean like the current statue does?

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Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should NOT be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

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What a weird stipulation. "I believe he should be honored, just not the place he has been honored for a century." Ok.

Also, he isn't really in the center of campus life by any definition. He is in a plaza in front of a building that hosts almost no classes. I had never even been inside the Academic Building until my senior year when I took a random Russian language class.

Places with a better claim to be the "center of campus life".

MSC
Dorms
Northgate
any of the bus stops.

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Agreed - would not use geometry to figure out the center of campus.

In my opinion - that part of campus where his is now, has a history to it and is located in front of one of the oldest buildings on campus. To me, these things matter.

PabloSerna said:

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TxAg82 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

---

You mean like the current statue does?

---

Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should NOT be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

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What a weird stipulation. "I believe he should be honored, just not the place he has been honored for a century." Ok.

Also, he isn't really in the center of campus life by any definition. He is in a plaza in front of a building that hosts almost no classes. I had never even been inside the Academic Building until my senior year when I took a random Russian language class.

Places with a better claim to be the "center of campus life".

MSC
Dorms
Northgate
any of the bus stops.

---

Agreed - would not use geometry to figure out the center of campus.

In my opinion - that part of campus where his is now, has a history to it and is located in front of one of the oldest buildings on campus. To me, these things matter.

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what is the end game? how does a move make it better or worse to those who feel offended. Do we move the RV's as well?

Well... he is one of the oldest Presidents. Makes a lot of sense to me that he would be in front of one of the oldest buildings.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Move those goalposts, Pablo. First you're saying he's not that great when it comes to A&M, then you switch to what a 22-year-old said about a fight he was in.

That's the modus operandi of the anti-Sully forces. Throw up crap, when it gets debunked, throw up different crap.

You are not clever or insightful You're merely tiresome and regurgitating your mentor Alvard's talking points.

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I don't know who Alvard is - but fine, I respect your decision to stop this discussion. I am merely making my point. For me, I did read about Sul Ross and it wasn't pretty. He did some good things, he did some bad things. What is troubling to me is the extent that good people will go to honor his legacy - even against the current and future students of our great school.

+pablo

I have a scheduled call with a former board member who remains very influential later today. I cannot and will not provide further details, but please know multiple people are trying to address issues with the administration.

TxAg82 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

---

You mean like the current statue does?

---

Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should NOT be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

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What a weird stipulation. "I believe he should be honored, just not the place he has been honored for a century." Ok.

Also, he isn't really in the center of campus life by any definition. He is in a plaza in front of a building that hosts almost no classes. I had never even been inside the Academic Building until my senior year when I took a random Russian language class.

Places with a better claim to be the "center of campus life".

MSC
Dorms
Northgate
any of the bus stops.

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Centralside!

PabloSerna said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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For me, this really should be about US - Aggies. Past, current, and future.

---

There would have been no Aggies past about 1892, if there were no Sul Ross.

But you know this, you're just looking to be offended.

---

Textbook example - it is impossible to know. However, you are willing to defend a hunk of metal and stone to the end - is that a correct understanding?

I gave you my answer for relocating - is your reason because no one did more for TAMU than he? Yet here we are a public institution using public money. Your money and mine correct? Do I have any say in how my taxes are spent?

You don't know me - best to keep it between the lines. For the record, I'm not easily offended.

+Pablo

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Not easily offended maybe

But easily confused

agAngeldad said:

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PabloSerna said:

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TxAg82 said:

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PabloSerna said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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A statue that honors his contributions to the State of Texas while serving as the President of AMC of Texas.

---

You mean like the current statue does?

---

Yes I do believe he SHOULD be honored. I am of the opinion that it should NOT be at the center of campus life.

+pablo

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What a weird stipulation. "I believe he should be honored, just not the place he has been honored for a century." Ok.

Also, he isn't really in the center of campus life by any definition. He is in a plaza in front of a building that hosts almost no classes. I had never even been inside the Academic Building until my senior year when I took a random Russian language class.

Places with a better claim to be the "center of campus life".

MSC
Dorms
Northgate
any of the bus stops.

---

Agreed - would not use geometry to figure out the center of campus.

In my opinion - that part of campus where his is now, has a history to it and is located in front of one of the oldest buildings on campus. To me, these things matter.

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what is the end game? how does a move make it better or worse to those who feel offended. Do we move the RV's as well?

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I am an architect by training. One of the axioms we hold is "place."

Good architecture seeks to create "places." A good place should strive to bring a community together. If you have ever traveled to Europe - you may have visited their squares/plazas. Small Texas towns were developed in this model.

I believe the space in front of the Academic Building is such a place.

I would hope that we can all agree to make that place more inviting and a place we can all (past, present, and future Aggies) get to know each other.

+pablo