Lathspell said:

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And you can just 'Reply' instead of quoting the entire post.

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Irony is ironic....

TCTTS said:

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As bat**** super nerd as that post may be, it's more demented that TWO people decided to quote reply it in-full. I was completely aware of how crazy long it was, but I literally thought, "At least it'll only be on the first page." But no, you psychopaths made sure people had to scroll through it TWICE now on the second page now as well. That's Batman-villain-level lack of sympathy for your fellow posters.

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We can only watch, and wonder how you do it...Quoting your ENTIRE post was the only way to get close.

The Porkchop Express said:

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The Batman had a great Batman, a really hot Cat Woman, a really scary Riddler and some of my favorite actors in supporting roles. Loved the music. Laughed out loud in the theater at the concept of going down into their version of Madison Square Garden to get away from a flood and really disliked the idea of there being multiple heavily armed online followers ready to mount up and start slaughtering innocent people because some crazy murderer told them, too. Feels like something that could inspire some really bad ***** Thought 80% of it was fantastic stuff but the last 30 minutes or so just felt pretty ridiculous and really veered from the logic and slickness and tightness of the rest of the film.

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To me, this is one of the issues with trying to make comic book characters, particularly one who dress up in costumes to fight crime, in a grounded world. This storyline would work fine in a batman graphic novel where everything else was fantastical, but not in a "Gotham in our world" setting.

That said, I really liked The Batman, moreso than the Nolan trilogy, but I wish they'd move away from grounded worlds. You can still make a good, artful comic book movie

Sorry... don't understand. I Replied, I didn't quote. I will quote small posts, but don't usually quote large posts because it's a chore for others to scroll through.

'THE PENGUIN' will have an official companion Podcast hosted by film critic Amy Nicholson.

Showrunner Lauren LeFranc, Matt Reeves, Colin Farrell & Cristin Milioti are among the guest appearing on the podcast giving in-depth insights about the show. pic.twitter.com/tB9mkvUn9x

— DC Film News (@DCFilmNews) September 16, 2024

Lathspell said:

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Sorry... don't understand. I Replied, I didn't quote. I will quote small posts, but don't usually quote large posts because it's a chore for others to scroll through.

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and that's the irony of complaining about the length of his post, and then quoting it...surely you understand this and you're just trolling us,....right.

TCTTS said:

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'THE PENGUIN' will have an official companion Podcast hosted by film critic Amy Nicholson.

Showrunner Lauren LeFranc, Matt Reeves, Colin Farrell & Cristin Milioti are among the guest appearing on the podcast giving in-depth insights about the show. pic.twitter.com/tB9mkvUn9x

— DC Film News (@DCFilmNews) September 16, 2024

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Chris Hardwick was busy?

G.I.Bro said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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The Batman had a great Batman, a really hot Cat Woman, a really scary Riddler and some of my favorite actors in supporting roles. Loved the music. Laughed out loud in the theater at the concept of going down into their version of Madison Square Garden to get away from a flood and really disliked the idea of there being multiple heavily armed online followers ready to mount up and start slaughtering innocent people because some crazy murderer told them, too. Feels like something that could inspire some really bad ***** Thought 80% of it was fantastic stuff but the last 30 minutes or so just felt pretty ridiculous and really veered from the logic and slickness and tightness of the rest of the film.

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To me, this is one of the issues with trying to make comic book characters, particularly one who dress up in costumes to fight crime, in a grounded world. This storyline would work fine in a batman graphic novel where everything else was fantastical, but not in a "Gotham in our world" setting.

That said, I really liked The Batman, moreso than the Nolan trilogy, but I wish they'd move away from grounded worlds. You can still make a good, artful comic book movie

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On the flip side, when the world is "fantastical" it's really easy to slip into campy... See the Joel Shumocker Batmans.

I would say, something like 300 did this very well. It kept the caricatures and various over the top visuals, and made it fit very well.

However, I will say I think the gritty version of Gotham we are getting with this series is something I really enjoy. Absolutely love the atmosphere.

The Porkchop Express said:

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The Batman had a great Batman, a really hot Cat Woman, a really scary Riddler and some of my favorite actors in supporting roles. Loved the music. Laughed out loud in the theater at the concept of going down into their version of Madison Square Garden to get away from a flood and really disliked the idea of there being multiple heavily armed online followers ready to mount up and start slaughtering innocent people because some crazy murderer told them, too. Feels like something that could inspire some really bad ***** Thought 80% of it was fantastic stuff but the last 30 minutes or so just felt pretty ridiculous and really veered from the logic and slickness and tightness of the rest of the film.

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I will say that last part did feel tacked on after the fact. That may have been one of my original gripes - don't recall.

I agree on Watchmen, but even that one they changed to not make it seem so over the top.

Lathspell said:

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I agree on Watchmen, but even that one they changed to not make it seem so over the top.

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True, but I think the ending of the graphic novel would have been tough to do in a movie, and I think the movie kept the same tone/meaning. You're still left with the question of whether peace based on a lie is preferable to war with truth. Maybe this animated movie will end the same at the novel, but it has more time to explain it. I think the movie makers were more worried about conveying the novel ending than it being too out there.

I get all that, but I just can't shake the feeling I get that I'm watching the last 20% of the movie or so that just seems a bit 'lesser than' how it started. It's still great and I love the movie. I just don't know how else to emphasize how perfect of a movie I felt the first 1.5-2 hrs of that movie were.

But, as far as The Penguin is concerned, I can't wait to revisit this Gotham that Reeves has brought to screen. I would love to get many stories from him with more obscure villains from Batman's Rogue's gallery. No need to bring in the Joker at all, imo.

Incredibly well said.

That last act not only features some amazing visuals, but is absolutely essential for Batman's arc. Especially once that last goon uses his vengeance line back at him (who is the same goon from the church/funeral who briefly complains to Bruce Wayne, btw).

I also just love the idea of him fighting a bunch of goons in the rafters of a space like that (where bets are often trapped), then plunging down into the muck, becoming a beacon of hope, etc.

It's all so damn good.

Lathspell said:

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I get all that, but I just can't shake the feeling I get that I'm watching the last 20% of the movie or so that just seems a bit 'lesser than' how it started. It's still great and I love the movie. I just don't know how else to emphasize how perfect of a movie I felt the first 1.5-2 hrs of that movie were.

But, as far as The Penguin is concerned, I can't wait to revisit this Gotham that Reeves has brought to screen. I would love to get many stories from him with more obscure villains from Batman's Rogue's gallery. No need to bring in the Joker at all, imo.

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For me, it feels organic if only because they tease the election - along with election night at Gotham Square Center - time and again throughout the movie. Everything is leading up to that event. Not only that, but then Bella Real is able to be the change Thomas Wayne was striving to be before he was tragically murdered. So that whole sequence is so symbolic, in more ways than one, with Bruce getting to save/continue his father's legacy/mission, by leading Real & co out of the dark and into the light. An act which is also the very moment Batman transitions from vengeance to hope. (That, and I get legit choked up when the dead mayor's kid, who's the same age Bruce was when he lost his parents, is the first one to take Batman's hand.) Thematically, it's all so brilliant, and ties the entire movie together so perfectly.

Lathspell said:

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I get all that, but I just can't shake the feeling I get that I'm watching the last 20% of the movie or so that just seems a bit 'lesser than' how it started. It's still great and I love the movie. I just don't know how else to emphasize how perfect of a movie I felt the first 1.5-2 hrs of that movie were.

But, as far as The Penguin is concerned, I can't wait to revisit this Gotham that Reeves has brought to screen. I would love to get many stories from him with more obscure villains from Batman's Rogue's gallery. No need to bring in the Joker at all, imo.

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Well this is maybe the 2nd time we have agreed on something, but I feel the same way about the movie. I find it very troubling that the bad guys aren't some army of goons and criminals, but individuals who have followed along the Riddler's online rants for months/years and then all unanimously decided to go downtown during a manmade flood to start killing people with automatic weapons. While I used to hate when idiots would say that a movie like the Matrix was inspiring kids to shoot up schools, I can't say the same thing about the faceless killers at the end of this movie. Perhaps it's just my own sensitivity to being a parent in the present as opposed to when the Matrix was out..

Movie has 3 of my favorite actors in brilliant supporting - Turturro, Serkis, and Jeffery Wright - and definitely captured the mood of what I would like the Batman to be about. I'll never be able to put it higher than The Dark Knight, but it's a worthwhile second.

The Porkchop Express said:

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Lathspell said:

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I get all that, but I just can't shake the feeling I get that I'm watching the last 20% of the movie or so that just seems a bit 'lesser than' how it started. It's still great and I love the movie. I just don't know how else to emphasize how perfect of a movie I felt the first 1.5-2 hrs of that movie were.

But, as far as The Penguin is concerned, I can't wait to revisit this Gotham that Reeves has brought to screen. I would love to get many stories from him with more obscure villains from Batman's Rogue's gallery. No need to bring in the Joker at all, imo.

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Well this is maybe the 2nd time we have agreed on something, but I feel the same way about the movie. I find it very troubling that the bad guys aren't some army of goons and criminals, but individuals who have followed along the Riddler's online rants for months/years and then all unanimously decided to go downtown during a manmade flood to start killing people with automatic weapons. While I used to hate when idiots would say that a movie like the Matrix was inspiring kids to shoot up schools, I can't say the same thing about the faceless killers at the end of this movie. Perhaps it's just my own sensitivity to being a parent in the present as opposed to when the Matrix was out..

Movie has 3 of my favorite actors in brilliant supporting - Turturro, Serkis, and Jeffery Wright - and definitely captured the mood of what I would like the Batman to be about. I'll never be able to put it higher than The Dark Knight, but it's a worthwhile second.

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To me, this is essential, and pretty much the entire point of the movie. Gotham has grown so corrupt, and its bureaucratic elites have failed their city to such an unforgivable degree (by teaming with Falcone to enrich only themselves through personal greed), that citizens like Edward Nashton and his cohorts, in their minds, have been left with no other choice. The guy at the mayor's funeral, who is eventually the last of The Riddler's followers to fight Batman in the rafters, tells Bruce, "What good's a safety net that doesn't catch anybody. Didn't help my daughter when she needed it, I can tell you that. [The mayor] was just another rich, scum-sucker who got what he deserved." So, in their minds, and their desperation, people like him believe they're doing exactly what Batman is doing - donning a mask to do what no one else will and fight the bureaucrats/rampant corruption. And even though Batman fancies himself above them, with his "no guns/kill" rule, it's only once he's actually face-to-face with them - specifically, the final guy from the funeral who throws his "vengeance" line back at him - does Batman realize the error of his ways; that fighting crime and corruption in the name of "vengeance" is no better. In other words, if The Riddler's cohorts were simply goons and criminals, as opposed to disenfranchised citizens who think they're doing what Batman is doing - the entire thematic premise of the movie falls apart. Then there's no mirror for Batman to see himself in, and ultimately become the symbol of hope he needs to be.

My problem isn't with how it affects Batman's arc or the movie plot as a whole, but with the inclusion of the characters at all. Having the main villain look like this.



is a pretty spot-on stereotype of what a lot of school shooters and other mass murderers who take an automatic weapon into a crowded place and open fire over the last 20-25 years have looked like.







Having that villain then be responsible for a dark web following of people who feel disenfranchised to the point of trying to murder as many people as possible in a massive coordinated attack just scares the **** out of me. We gratefully haven't seen anything like that (yet) beyond that mother****er in Norway 15ish years ago.

I realize movies in general and superhero films in particular are not beholden to some moral standard of creativity or to contribute to what my narrow view of things "for the good of society", but I've got 2 kids in school, a niece in college, and my brother in his 30th year of teaching. There have been 2 horrific school shootings within 100 miles of our city in the last 5 years, and we all know damn well ain't no Batman coming to stop them.

I don't want to clog the thread anymore with what is feeling more and more like a derail. I respect your opinion TC, and everyone else's. But there's definitely a reason I turn this film off right after that great Dano/Patterson scene at Arkham.

Seems we're getting flashbacks, with Strong is playing a younger Turturro...

Official first look at Mark Strong as Carmine Falcone in ‘THE PENGUIN.’

The role was previously played by John Turturro in ‘THE BATMAN.’ pic.twitter.com/BAszLntPmm

— DC Film News (@DCFilmNews) September 17, 2024

I hear you, and understand why it might hit close to home in your mind. At the same time, though, it's really no different than a movie featuring a mass serial killer, gang bangers, or terrorists, who all have just as much of a likelihood as killing us or our loved ones as the disenfranchised school shooter types do.

For those squabbling about the change of his name, Oswald Cobb has all of the qualities inherent you would expect from The Penguin. The series expands on his nefarious aspirations, making him a much more formidable figure. To me, that matters more than what he’s called.

— Dan Marcus (@Danimalish) September 17, 2024

DC fans should feel extremely lucky we’re getting a show as great as THE PENGUIN. This is mature, disciplined storytelling with nuanced performances and characters that feel like real people. It approaches ANDOR levels of gripping storytelling. It’s that good.

— Dan Marcus (@Danimalish) September 17, 2024

Without delving into spoilers, THE PENGUIN pretty succinctly sets up THE BATMAN: PART II in such a way that anyone familiar with a certain Batman comic storyline will most certainly see where Matt Reeves is taking this story. It should make a lot of fans very happy.

— Dan Marcus (@Danimalish) September 17, 2024

Tonight.

So… I have steered clear of DC for the most part and most of what I've seen has been relegated to Marvel.

I watched episode 1 tonight because I like mob movies/shows… and I was impressed. I barely know the back story but it was very entertaining. I enjoyed it and will definitely keep going with it.

amg405 said:

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So… I have steered clear of DC for the most part and most of what I've seen has been relegated to Marvel.

I watched episode 1 tonight because I like mob movies/shows… and I was impressed. I barely know the back story but it was very entertaining. I enjoyed it and will definitely keep going with it.

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So you haven't even seen The Batman?

First off, if so, I'd remedy that immediately. Secondly, if the pilot can even draw in someone such as yourself, who hasn't seen anything in this world prior, that's pretty amazing. And thirdly, props for giving it a chance, sight unseen, but yeah, again... watch The Batman. It's amazing.

I was legit shocked by this, considering A) Michael Zegen is a pretty notable actor in a number of things I love, and B) is shown in the trailers in at least a couple other scenes, which are now presumably flashbacks. Regardless, I was expecting him to be around for another few episodes. Such a brilliant way to kick things off, though, and (re)establish Oz's character.

#ThePenguin is Certified Fresh at 89% on the Tomatometer, with 79 reviews: https://t.co/wEptv4EUHf pic.twitter.com/56CdVDBJ9s

— Rotten Tomatoes (@RottenTomatoes) September 20, 2024

The cinematography obviously isn't nearly on the same level as the movie (not much else is), but I appreciate the effort and attention to detail...

Director Craig Zobel says they used the same camera gear and lenses of ‘THE BATMAN’ for ‘THE PENGUIN’ series:

“We talked with Matt Reeves and Greig Fraser a good bit before starting the show, and we asked them questions just on a very technical level.” pic.twitter.com/Id2y1nYYRY

— The Batman Film News 🦇 (@TheBatmanFilm_) September 20, 2024