Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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YouBet said:

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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

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You have to pit him against a villain who can actually defeat him. But for whatever reason, the many filmmakers who have made Superman movies have stuck with Luthor and a couple of instances of General Zod (tbf, Zod is at least an equal to Superman). What you need is Darkseid.

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Well, that was next from Snyder before they fired him. Not that his leadup to it was much better aside from Man of Steel which is still the much better Superman movie compared to Gunn's.

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The original theatrical version of Justice League was hot garbage; Zach Snyder's Justice League is the only true version of the film and was very well done. It gave just enough of Darkseid to really tick me off that WB elected to scrap that vision before its completion.

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Ironically, I saw the final Darkseid scene from this Saturday night just scrolling around on TV. Had forgotten about it, actually. He was going to launch an armada at Earth - "using the old ways".

'‘The Batman Part II’ Production Paused As Matt Reeves Steps Away For Personal Reasons' https://t.co/4O9qsZQN8S pic.twitter.com/PfFc1KX2Rj

— Wario64 (@Wario64) October 5, 2026

the smile is for DC Studios being cursed.

not whatever is going on with reeves.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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They need to make Red Son live action where Superman crash lands in Russia and Luthor is an American hero

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A suggestion i've heard online, which i'm really starting to like, is that DC should forget trying to form one coherent universe with their superheroes and instead just make stand-alone live action versions of their top tier storylines like Knightfall, Red Son, or Kingdom Come.

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I'd love to see a 50s era Superman, give Metropolis a killer art deco vibe and have Supes fighting giant robots. It makes the Daily Planet far more relevant too.

fig96 said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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They need to make Red Son live action where Superman crash lands in Russia and Luthor is an American hero

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A suggestion i've heard online, which i'm really starting to like, is that DC should forget trying to form one coherent universe with their superheroes and instead just make stand-alone live action versions of their top tier storylines like Knightfall, Red Son, or Kingdom Come.

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I'd love to see a 50s era Superman, give Metropolis a killer art deco vibe and have Supes fighting giant robots. It makes the Daily Planet far more relevant too.

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the common everyday fans do not want multiple versions of the same characters running around doing things concurrently across multiple time zones, multiverses/etc. (yes, that is a slight dig at DD/SW but there is at least a specific reason for this - to shut the others down)

Even Sony in all of their idiocy, realized having two active mainstream live-action spider-men was bad.

and if they can figure that out, others got their long before sony did.

CascadiaAg said:

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fig96 said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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They need to make Red Son live action where Superman crash lands in Russia and Luthor is an American hero

---

A suggestion i've heard online, which i'm really starting to like, is that DC should forget trying to form one coherent universe with their superheroes and instead just make stand-alone live action versions of their top tier storylines like Knightfall, Red Son, or Kingdom Come.

---

I'd love to see a 50s era Superman, give Metropolis a killer art deco vibe and have Supes fighting giant robots. It makes the Daily Planet far more relevant too.

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the common everyday fans do not want multiple versions of the same characters running around doing things concurrently across multiple time zones, multiverses/etc. (yes, that is a slight dig at DD/SW but there is at least a specific reason for this - to shut the others down)

Even Sony in all of their idiocy, realized having two active mainstream live-action spider-men was bad.

and if they can figure that out, others got their long before sony did.

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I think its up for debate what the general fan wants from the superhero genre right now.

Probably pretty safe to assume they don't want multiverses. And it's also probably safe to assume they don't want a large convoluted universe where every movie and tv show ties into each other and it just feels like homework trying to keep up with it all. They're clearly willing to go see good movies centered around the big names....Spiderman, Batman. But I think even if it was good the Supergirl movie would still have only done "meh" at the box office.

Doomsday and Secret Wars will make bank because of the draw of all the original Avengers being back plus Downey as Doom. But post that? Thats a huge question mark. I think interest in the MCU will deflate again. Meanwhile, DC has yet to figure it out, so they might as well try something different. Trimmed down budgets, well-loved established stories, appeal to your comic book fan base instead of trying to pull in the whole world.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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CascadiaAg said:

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fig96 said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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They need to make Red Son live action where Superman crash lands in Russia and Luthor is an American hero

---

A suggestion i've heard online, which i'm really starting to like, is that DC should forget trying to form one coherent universe with their superheroes and instead just make stand-alone live action versions of their top tier storylines like Knightfall, Red Son, or Kingdom Come.

---

I'd love to see a 50s era Superman, give Metropolis a killer art deco vibe and have Supes fighting giant robots. It makes the Daily Planet far more relevant too.

---

the common everyday fans do not want multiple versions of the same characters running around doing things concurrently across multiple time zones, multiverses/etc. (yes, that is a slight dig at DD/SW but there is at least a specific reason for this - to shut the others down)

Even Sony in all of their idiocy, realized having two active mainstream live-action spider-men was bad.

and if they can figure that out, others got their long before sony did.

---

I think its up for debate what the general fan wants from the superhero genre right now.

Probably pretty safe to assume they don't want multiverses. And it's also probably safe to assume they don't want a large convoluted universe where every movie and tv show ties into each other and it just feels like homework trying to keep up with it all. They're clearly willing to go see good movies centered around the big names....Spiderman, Batman. But I think even if it was good the Supergirl movie would still have only done "meh" at the box office.

Doomsday and Secret Wars will make bank because of the draw of all the original Avengers being back plus Downey as Doom. But post that? Thats a huge question mark. I think interest in the MCU will deflate again. Meanwhile, DC has yet to figure it out, so they might as well try something different. Trimmed down budgets, well-loved established stories, appeal to your comic book fan base instead of trying to pull in the whole world.

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Agreed but the only caveat I would add is that their comic book fan base have lived with the multi-verse, soap opera storylines, and reboots for decades. It's the rest of the general fans that are tired of it. I actually tried to reengage with comic books several years ago and gave up pretty quickly because I was going to have to buy issues across multiple different comics to keep up with one story line. No thanks.

I do however like a self-contained, graphic novel mini-series or one-off like you are suggesting they move to though. I do think that would help the genre at this juncture. I wonder if even die-hard comic book fans are tired of it at this point.

YouBet said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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CascadiaAg said:

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fig96 said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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CharleyKerfeld said:

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They need to make Red Son live action where Superman crash lands in Russia and Luthor is an American hero

---

A suggestion i've heard online, which i'm really starting to like, is that DC should forget trying to form one coherent universe with their superheroes and instead just make stand-alone live action versions of their top tier storylines like Knightfall, Red Son, or Kingdom Come.

---

I'd love to see a 50s era Superman, give Metropolis a killer art deco vibe and have Supes fighting giant robots. It makes the Daily Planet far more relevant too.

---

the common everyday fans do not want multiple versions of the same characters running around doing things concurrently across multiple time zones, multiverses/etc. (yes, that is a slight dig at DD/SW but there is at least a specific reason for this - to shut the others down)

Even Sony in all of their idiocy, realized having two active mainstream live-action spider-men was bad.

and if they can figure that out, others got their long before sony did.

---

I think its up for debate what the general fan wants from the superhero genre right now.

Probably pretty safe to assume they don't want multiverses. And it's also probably safe to assume they don't want a large convoluted universe where every movie and tv show ties into each other and it just feels like homework trying to keep up with it all. They're clearly willing to go see good movies centered around the big names....Spiderman, Batman. But I think even if it was good the Supergirl movie would still have only done "meh" at the box office.

Doomsday and Secret Wars will make bank because of the draw of all the original Avengers being back plus Downey as Doom. But post that? Thats a huge question mark. I think interest in the MCU will deflate again. Meanwhile, DC has yet to figure it out, so they might as well try something different. Trimmed down budgets, well-loved established stories, appeal to your comic book fan base instead of trying to pull in the whole world.

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Agreed but the only caveat I would add is that their comic book fan base have lived with the multi-verse, soap opera storylines, and reboots for decades. It's the rest of the general fans that are tired of it. I actually tried to reengage with comic books several years ago and gave up pretty quickly because I was going to have to buy issues across multiple different comics to keep up with one story line. No thanks.

I do however like a self-contained, graphic novel mini-series or one-off like you are suggesting they move to though. I do think that would help the genre at this juncture. I wonder if even die-hard comic book fans are tired of it at this point.

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I'm totally in line with your post. To add to my original suggestion, while the comic book fans would appreciate seeing beloved insulated storylines being translated faithfully onscreen, I actually think the general public would appreciate these movies in a different way, i.e. going back to less complicated standalone well-told superhero movies.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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YouBet said:

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FL_Ag1998 said:

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CascadiaAg said:

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fig96 said:

---

FL_Ag1998 said:

---

CharleyKerfeld said:

---

They need to make Red Son live action where Superman crash lands in Russia and Luthor is an American hero

---

A suggestion i've heard online, which i'm really starting to like, is that DC should forget trying to form one coherent universe with their superheroes and instead just make stand-alone live action versions of their top tier storylines like Knightfall, Red Son, or Kingdom Come.

---

I'd love to see a 50s era Superman, give Metropolis a killer art deco vibe and have Supes fighting giant robots. It makes the Daily Planet far more relevant too.

---

the common everyday fans do not want multiple versions of the same characters running around doing things concurrently across multiple time zones, multiverses/etc. (yes, that is a slight dig at DD/SW but there is at least a specific reason for this - to shut the others down)

Even Sony in all of their idiocy, realized having two active mainstream live-action spider-men was bad.

and if they can figure that out, others got their long before sony did.

---

I think its up for debate what the general fan wants from the superhero genre right now.

Probably pretty safe to assume they don't want multiverses. And it's also probably safe to assume they don't want a large convoluted universe where every movie and tv show ties into each other and it just feels like homework trying to keep up with it all. They're clearly willing to go see good movies centered around the big names....Spiderman, Batman. But I think even if it was good the Supergirl movie would still have only done "meh" at the box office.

Doomsday and Secret Wars will make bank because of the draw of all the original Avengers being back plus Downey as Doom. But post that? Thats a huge question mark. I think interest in the MCU will deflate again. Meanwhile, DC has yet to figure it out, so they might as well try something different. Trimmed down budgets, well-loved established stories, appeal to your comic book fan base instead of trying to pull in the whole world.

---

Agreed but the only caveat I would add is that their comic book fan base have lived with the multi-verse, soap opera storylines, and reboots for decades. It's the rest of the general fans that are tired of it. I actually tried to reengage with comic books several years ago and gave up pretty quickly because I was going to have to buy issues across multiple different comics to keep up with one story line. No thanks.

I do however like a self-contained, graphic novel mini-series or one-off like you are suggesting they move to though. I do think that would help the genre at this juncture. I wonder if even die-hard comic book fans are tired of it at this point.

---

I'm totally in line with your post. To add to my original suggestion, while the comic book fans would appreciate seeing beloved insulated storylines being translated faithfully onscreen, I actually think the general public would appreciate these movies in a different way, i.e. going back to less complicated standalone well-told superhero movies.

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Or at least make them linear, well-constructed stories with a known, planned final outcome that build well upon one another. Like the MCU up to Endgame. However, I personally think that was lightening in a bottle and will never be recreated. It's frankly incredible to think about 23(?) movies being made that stuck to that formula, cast that well, and finished out so strongly.

fig96 said:

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This is what I was referring to with the retro Superman idea.

Marvel did the unified universe and made it work, that doesn't mean DC has to. But now they're apparently kind of doing both which is just confusing.

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Trying to play both sides and cover their bases and it's not going well for them. Ironically, the mostly self-contained Reevesverse (which is what some of us want) is way better than the attempted unified Gunnverse.

You two are both right, IMO. Reeves' movies provide a blueprint for DC if Gunn would wake up.

I have beat this drum over and over through the years, but the essential feeling an audience needs to have leaving a Superman movie is, "I really wish that guy was real."

And for my money, you only get that feeling from putting him in real-world situations with real people. Fighting a clone of himself while also trying to keep Metropolis from falling into a pocket universe sounds like a plot from the Superfriends cartoon I watched in the 70s/80s. The first movie needed way more Clark and way more humanizing.

Gunn had some nice moments of playing up humanity- turning himself in, his closing speech to Luthor, the talk with his dad, but too much of the rest of it was just crazy all over the place. They should have shown him stopping the war in Whateveria that is mentioned early in the movie. The scene where GL, Hawkgirl, and Metamorpho show up to stop the invasion is one of my favorite parts of the movie because they're clearly helping people.

Every superhero movie these days can be sky lasers and CGI hordes to fight and boy they really run together.

Superman is supposed to represent the very best of all us, but most of his time is spent fighting giant monsters, trapped in a Hell-esque prison, and fighting CGi-enhanced bad guys.

To really sell Superman, I postulate you need the emotional connection from these 3 scenes: One from Man of Steel, one from Wonder Woman, and one from Spiderman 2, where normal people see who they truly are and love / respect them for it.

Funny, I watched Wonder Woman last night, randomly. Really good movie except for the final fight.

Meloni's character in Man of Steel was a total badass. I love that movie even more every time I watch it.

YouBet said:

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Funny, I watched Wonder Woman last night, randomly. Really good movie except for the final fight.

Meloni's character in Man of Steel was a total badass. I love that movie even more every time I watch it.

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Yeah Wonder Woman botches the landing, but up until then it's a solid movie. Meloni is great throughout Man of Steel. Giving the "everyday" characters important things to do and their own characters arcs is vital to a movie about an unstoppable meta human being good. When he sees the Zod's female lieutenant crush his 2 soldiers and he takes out the knife to fight her hand to hand, that's as good as it gets.

Steven Soderbergh is set to direct the remainder of ‘THE BATMAN: PART 2’.

Him and Reeves will work together and remain in communication until filming has ended, with Reeves taking over post-production duties when ready.

(Source: Deadline) pic.twitter.com/NfyM2wc9U8

— DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) October 15, 2026

Shades of the original Justice League?

Still here for the DCU chaos.

PatAg said:

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Steven Soderbergh is set to direct the remainder of ‘THE BATMAN: PART 2’.

Him and Reeves will work together and remain in communication until filming has ended, with Reeves taking over post-production duties when ready.

(Source: Deadline) pic.twitter.com/NfyM2wc9U8

— DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) October 15, 2026

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New release date: 2034

WTH. The DCU is a disaster.

So, same universe as Superman, Supergirl, Lanterns, Clayface, etc...

Quote:

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Additionally, the TV series, which would go to HBO if it gets picked up, would not be part of Matt Reeves' Batman Universe, which is led by Robert Pattinson playing the caped crusader from Gotham City, sources say.

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Sources have revealed to Deadline that ‘The Penguin’ showrunner and executive producer Lauren LeFranc is in talks to join the new Poison Ivy-focused TV series from Warner Bros. and DC Comics as a producer.

Read more details here: https://t.co/3Kd76QIUxD pic.twitter.com/jd4zzH5SCo

— Deadline (@DEADLINE) October 21, 2026

This just tells us that the Reevesverse is not going to have meta humans. Unless I'm missing something from the forthcoming Batman II.

You're probably right.