I'm just not going to wear something on my head like that for longer than about 5 minutes.

The end game is VR contact lenses or holo decks. Preferably the latter because I don't want something touching my eyeballs.

Apparently there's a wired battery pack. Probably not a deal breaker for a lot, but they do get annoying.

https://www.wired.com/story/one-part-of-apple-vision-pro-apple-doesnt-want-you-to-see/

Video trailer of JigSpace for Vision Pro pic.twitter.com/OHjWT1IWKq

— Apple Vision Report (@spatialreport) January 21, 2024

One step closer to the holodeck!

Introducing: Holotile

AR/VR walking is now possible! pic.twitter.com/s2hFyOaeS0

— Dogan Ural (@doganuraldesign) January 21, 2024

None of this is really new. The concept has been around for a long time. The hangup is content for platforms like this and who builds all of the pretty models and animations. The content is kind of expensive to produce, and there are hardly any consumers for it because there's so little content. It's a lot easier, cheaper, and more deployable to print paper instructions or make a video for people to watch.

This is actually cool and potentially a big step forward. The issue of virtual movement within a small physical space is a big one within VR.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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This is actually cool and potentially a big step forward. The issue of virtual movement within a small physical space is a big one within VR.

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Literally.

Seriously, though, this seems both super innovative but also so simple that I'm kind of shocked it didn't exist in this form until now.

TCTTS said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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None of this is really new. The concept has been around for a long time. The hangup is content for platforms like this and who builds all of the pretty models and animations. The content is kind of expensive to produce, and there are hardly any consumers for it because there's so little content. It's a lot easier, cheaper, and more deployable to print paper instructions or make a video for people to watch.

---

Please don't take this wrong way, but most of us are aware that a lot of this tech has been around for a while. People keep reminding us on every page, and since I'm not a big VR guy I genuinely do appreciate the context at times, but I'm posting mostly because it's cool just to see Apple's version of it all and how good it looks.

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Quote:

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Seriously, though, this seems both super innovative but also so simple that I'm kind of shocked it didn't exist in this form until now.

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I think people keep reminding on every page that the tech has existed in a less refined form every page because there will be comments saying the idea is "super innovative" when it's not really innovative it's just refined (with a large budget behind it).

Omni-directional VR treadmills have been around for 10 years or so, but they need a ton of work -- i'm guessing Apple's still does too but in a short marketing clip it can be made to look super functional.

Most of us are super excited about what Apple can do with their $$$ and "refinement" to push the industry forward into more mainstream acceptance, because it's desperately needed. But at the same time it's a very "Apple" thing to hear people think every functionality that has existed for years is "super innovative".

The Holotile isn't an Apple product. And I said it SEEMS super innovative, not that it IS super innovative, hence me following up with "in this form," indicating that I realize other forms of that idea already exist.

Again, we get it.

My apologies. I am glad you are finally joining the rest of us techies now that Apple has slapped a sheen and logo on it made it more palatable for the masses.

I kid, I kid.

I can definitely feel Hollywood starting to come around on this thing, as evident by industry insider Matt Belloni's latest newsletter...

Quote:

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Apple's Quest to Revolutionize the Home Theater

Tim Cook's fancy new $3,500 V.R. headset, which I recently (reluctantly) sampled, may seem like a gimmickuntil you imagine the future of at-home theatrical. Take Steven Soderbergh's latest movie as an example.

Last week I did something I never do: a hardware demonstration. I'm usually not too interested in the latest tech, and, as a relatively late adopter, nobody cares what I think about it anyways. But many of the initial reactions to the new Apple Vision Pro have focused on how cool it is for watching movies, so my attention automatically perked up.

The fancy VR/AR headset, which is available Feb. 2 at an initial $3,500 price, is being marketed as a next-generation platform for video and other entertainment. It's launching with apps for Disney+, Max, ESPN, Amazon Prime Video, and Peacock (though not Netflix or YouTube, which is a bit of a surprise; they're telling people to just use the web). And the Apple publicist was both nice and persistent. So on Tuesday afternoon, I found myself sitting on a designer couch in the old Beats offices in Culver City, ready to have my mind blown.

Well, I shouldn't say blown. Like most people in Hollywood and elsewhere, I'm pretty cynical about V.R. and mixed reality. I just don't think regular people want to wear a clunky headset, at least not yet, no matter how cool the experience. And most devices, up until now, have been not that cool. Meta sent me the latest Quest a year or two ago - I tried it once and never again. Like most headsets, I don't think Quest has answered the Why? question for non-gamers. But Meta is not Apple, of course, and for me, a longtime Apple person, Tim Cook gets the benefit of the doubt on everything except The Morning Show. So there I was, sitting for the full Vision Pro experience.

I've gotta say, it was pretty damned impressive. I'll leave the tech reviews to the experts, who seem to like the visual display and Apple-style intuitiveness, while noting some drawbacks like the weight of the headset and a clunky battery pack. (That's probably why Apple insisted on taking the photos of me and others; you won't see the battery in any of those shots.) The ability to use your eyes to accurately direct the "cursor" and pinch your fingers to select stuff is pretty seamless. There's even a virtual keyboard you type in the air, and scrolling feels similar to an iPhone. Maybe the most amazing element is the immersive experience of spatial photos and videos. You can relive a European vacation inside your pics or "sit" at a dinner table with a relative who may no longer be alive. Crazy stuff.

But it's the professional content that interests me most, of course. And I must say, the Vision Pro could represent an evolution in the experience of watching movies, TV shows, and sports on an individual headset (or a "personal theater" if you want to call it that). I watched the trailer for Star Wars: A New Hope via the optimized Disney+ app while it felt like I was sitting in a drive-in theater on Tatooine. The Super Mario Bros. Movie took on the feel of the old video game, albeit massive, in crisp 3D, and with Seth Rogen trouncing across my entire plane of vision as Donkey Kong. The Ted Lasso scenes played like I was attending an AFC Richmond game, as did the quick glimpses they showed of real sports action. Imagine watching an MLB game - from the perspective of front-row seats behind the dugout. What they showed was brief, but very cool.

Who knows whether my small demonstration will translate into somewhere I'd want to spend hours a day. There's a micro-OLED display with audio speakers embedded in the headset, but by the time my 45-minute demo ended, my head felt a little tired, like I was on the verge of a headache. Still, the Apple slickness and the ease and integration into the App Store felt like a familiar and easy place to watch movies.

Will regular people pay $3,500 for a personal home theater to consume content they can already watch on their big screens? Maybe not, or at least I'm not sure they will right now. But that's not the question Hollywood should be asking. Watching movie clips in that Apple office suite, I wanted to see more. The experience felt fresh and elevated. And most importantly, when I asked myself, Will people watch movies in this format? I think the answer is, eventually, yes.


Our Bodies, Our Screens

Three days later, I got major Vision Pro vibes from Steven Soderbergh's new film, Presence, which premiered at the Library theater here in Park City on Friday night. Soderbergh, the rare experimental filmmaker who's also a studio franchise creator (Ocean's 11, Magic Mike), made a haunted house movie told from the ghost's perspective. For 85 minutes, we see only what the "presence" does, and the story unfolds in part based on how the characters interact with that unseen eye.

It sounds gimmicky, but the conceit totally works, and critics are noting how much the first-person perspective - something Soderbergh never thought would be possible - actually adds to the storytelling (while also diverting from some clunky dialogue). "I've been very vocal about the fact that [visual reality], one-person point-of-view V.R., doesn't work, is never going to work as a narrative. Nobody wants this thing on their head," Soderbergh told us during the post-screening panel with festival director Eugene Hernandez. "Then I'm like, 'The only way to do it is you never turn around.' I've been saying for years, 'You have to turn around or it doesn't work.' And now I'm like, or…"

Or… it does work, with a talented filmmaker who figured out how to make the first-person perspective a compelling narrative device. It's funny that Soderbergh, a big critic of virtual reality in storytelling, is now among the first to actually pull it off, and at a time when everyone here at Sundance seems to be terrified for the future of the film business. The rise of global streamers and the decline of the international territory model has thrown the entire business into disarray. Now streamers are going more commercial. But do modern audiences, trained on social media and video games, even want two-hour narrative features? I mean, even Marvel moviesdon't automatically work anymore.

But watching Presence, I kept thinking how cool it would be to experience it on an Apple Vision Pro, like a first-person shooter game but a movie, with real characters and suspense. The first-person movie seems tailor-made for the new era of personal theater, the merging of video games with narrative storytelling, all in the service of making the audience feel something. It's something exciting in the sea of same-old at Sundance. (Note to Apple: Presence is still for sale here, though I've heard there are a few buyers in the mix.)

Bigger picture, while everyone in Hollywood seems to see Big Tech as the enemy, the truth is that tech and content have kinda always evolved together. Like the Imax boom or what's going on in live music with the Sphere, there will likely be a future in personal theaters, powered by sophisticated V.R./A.R. headsets, with content like Presence tailor-made to exploit the format. That's why those traditional entertainment companies were smart to launch on the Vision Pro. Sure, they might end up like all those print magazine publishers who created iPad versions that nobody read. But if Apple doesn't figure out personalized V.R. theaters, someone else will, and it's at least comforting to know that Hollywood films and shows will almost certainly be along for the ride.

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YouTuber @MrBeast just sold a massive Amazon TV show. Plus: Why #Sundance and the Apple Vision Pro are made for each other. Tonight’s @PuckNews What I’m Hearing is live now: https://t.co/6lpZ2jmr2I

— Matthew Belloni (@MattBelloni) January 22, 2024

And for those saying this is only for people watching movies/shows alone, sure... for now. Give it a few software updates, though - or - at most, until the next physical iteration in a couple of years, and I guarantee you there will be an option to stay immersed in whatever environment you're watching a movie/show, on a 100-foot screen, and passthrough will either allow you to see your partner physically sitting right there beside you on the couch, but also in the same virtual environment, or there will be a hyper-realistic avatar of them "sitting" next you even if they're hundreds of miles away.

Or take it a step further and you'll be able to "attend" virtual theaters with multiple hyper-realistic avatars of your friends/family all sitting next to you, no matter where they are in the real world. Yes, in this scenario everyone else would need a Vision Pro as well, and you'd all have to decide to watch the movie/show at the same time, but once the hardware becomes thinner/lighter/cheaper, it could be as ubiquitous as iPads are now.

Point is, this decade, it feels like we're gradually moving toward a third way to watch movies/shows. Physically being in, say, an IMAX theater with a packed audience on opening weekend will remain the pinnacle of movie watching. And watching content at home, on 75" TVs, laptops, and phones obviously won't go away either. But with Vision Pro there seems to a best-of-both-words option emerging, where, in the next five years or so, you'll be able to stay home - but ALSO be able to watch a movie/show on a screen that's even "bigger" than IMAX, in whatever environment you want, with whoever you want, whenever you want.

Will we do this all the time? Probably not. But as someone who lives halfway across the country from my family, there are always two or three non-holiday movies each year I wish I could see with them, opening weekend, for the first time. And eventually, here in the next few years, I'll get to do that. Sure, they'll be digital avatars, but getting to talk to them, in real time, in the same "space" - and hear their laughs, pause the movie to answer their questions, etc - would be so incredibly cool.

This is where I would mention that watching movies in the same virtual room together in BigScreen and other VR movie apps has been a thing for 5+ years...

I'm mostly giving you a hard time, and I love having new people jumping into the VR space -- but this is like a case study on how Apple can throw their brand and marketing $$$ behind something and the masses will believe it's their innovation and not just an already established tech refined, put in a pretty box and marked up 500%.

Maybe they should call it the Apple Glass.

Proposition Joe said:

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This is where I would mention that watching movies in the same virtual room together in BigScreen and other VR movie apps has been a thing for 5+ years...

I'm mostly giving you a hard time, and I love having new people jumping into the VR space -- but this is like a case study on how Apple can throw their brand and marketing $$$ behind something and the masses will believe it's their innovation and not just an already established tech refined, put in a pretty box and marked up 500%.

---

It's not just because of the Apple brand and marketing, though. We're not just a bunch of sheep glomming on solely because it's new and shiny and Apple. Like someone said earlier in the thread, more importantly, it's because of their ecosystem and their innovation. It's because I already have a library of over 400 digital movies in my Apple TV account. It's because their content is better organized and presented than just about anyone else. It's because the Vision Pro and all of its apps sync seamlessly with my iPhone and my MacBook. And yes, it's because Apple has refined everything everyone else has already done, and made it all look cooler than anyone else did, as the brand is known to do. But that's the least of my considerations. Regardless, from top to bottom, it's all tangible, measurable things that are getting people excited when they weren't excited before. Tangible, measurable things that are finally/seemingly pushing the VR space over the hump that no one else has been able to get over until now.

TCTTS said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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This is where I would mention that watching movies in the same virtual room together in BigScreen and other VR movie apps has been a thing for 5+ years...

I'm mostly giving you a hard time, and I love having new people jumping into the VR space -- but this is like a case study on how Apple can throw their brand and marketing $$$ behind something and the masses will believe it's their innovation and not just an already established tech refined, put in a pretty box and marked up 500%.

---

It's not just because of the Apple brand and marketing, though. We're not just a bunch of sheep glomming on solely because it's new and shiny and Apple. Like someone said earlier in the thread, more importantly, it's because of their ecosystem and their innovation. It's because I already have a library of over 400 digital movies in my Apple TV account. It's because their content is better organized and presented than just about anyone else. It's because the Vision Pro and all of its apps sync seamlessly with my iPhone and my MacBook. And yes, it's because Apple has refined everything everyone else has already done, and made it all look cooler than anyone else did, as the brand is known to do. But that's the least of my considerations. Regardless, from top to bottom, it's all tangible, measurable things that are getting people excited when they weren't excited before. Tangible, measurable things that are finally/seemingly pushing the VR space over the hump that no one else has been able to get over until now.

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100% agree. Like I said, I welcome them into the space because thus far a lot of the hardware/applications have been clunky at best. Hell, as much as Meta is like the new Microsoft when it comes to "oh god, here they come to mess things up", them entering the space was enormous. Prior to that it was HTC, which was a fraction of the dev and funding.

But there's absolutely a fanboy aspect to a lot of Apple's stuff, so you get a lot of "omg look at what apple did! on tech that has existed for years and years.

I'm just curious, have you ever used a VR headset before? In theory watching a movie in VR sounds great, but after trying it on multiple headsets, I've decided that sitting in front of a TV is better. There's really nothing revolutionary about that use case. It hasn't taken off with any other headset, and what Apple is doing with movies looks exactly the same as others. That's probably the least innovative thing I've seen with the headset.

Now, if you want to tell me that Hollywood is going to start making VR movies, where I get to sit in the car with Marvin when his face gets blown off, that's more interesting to me. All these VR companies (not just Apple) need to quit trying to replicate what we do in the real world and focus on things we can't do. For example, the most interesting demo to me has been the one where they have an F1 car, and you can see how air moves through it, and then take it apart, move parts out the way, etc. that's something VR gives you that you can't really do without it.

The conversation I'm having is more about headsets five years from now/later this decade. Yes, right now, sitting in front of a TV is better, and will probably remain so for a while. But eventually, when the Vision Pro is thinner/lighter/cheaper, it could be a really cool/fun alternative to sitting in front of a TV, that offers an experience TV's can't touch. Does that mean you'll want to use it all the time? No. But for blockbusters/big episodes, and a unique change of pace? Absolutely.

Quote:

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Now, if you want to tell me that Hollywood is going to start making VR movies, where I get to sit in the car with Marvin when his face gets blown off, that's more interesting to me.

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So many of the problems with this come down to what your brain and eyes can handle without wanting to puke.

I'm sure it's been improved, but I remember 4-5 years ago demoing the VR hack for Grand Theft Auto. Game has first person view so it basically already had the hooks to implement it. Cruising down Los Santos in my convertible, peering to the left and seeing what was to the left of me. Holy cow, this is awesome. Then I hit another car and was ejected through the windshield and the camera spun and... holy cow... not so awesome. Made my head hurt so bad I never tried it again.

There's just a whole lot of evolving the tech has to do to be "comfortable". Gaming is easy as it's an active engagement that you're willing to make comfort sacrifices for the experience.

But watching a movie? Doing work on multiple monitors? We still haven't come close to that being "comfortable" over the physical alternative.

Quote:

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The conversation I'm having is more about headsets five years from now/later this decade. Yes, right now, sitting in front of a TV is better, and will probably remain so for a while. But eventually, when the Vision Pro is thinner/lighter/cheaper, it could be a really cool/fun alternative to sitting in front of a TV, that offers an experience TV's can't touch.

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While I agree with you, I think the timetable is off. Advancement in this area moves at a snails pace -- which is why Apple getting into the arena is/was welcomed. Google already basically said "nah, not worth the time/investment".

HTC Vive and the Oculus Rift were the first two major consumer VR hardware. Where we are at right now with VR from a hardware perspective compared to 8 years ago is miniscule.

I'm not doubting this tech at all FTR. I think it will take off and primarily because the younger generations don't want to live in real life. They want to be virtual. VR and living your life in VR (ie like Meta) is going to happen; it's just a matter of when and who pulls it off.

If / when it gets to the point that I don't have to wear a giant headset then I'm interested at least for movies and games. Until such time, I'll wait.

Hmmm

Apple Vision Pro
+ Formula 1
= Killer App (?)

a story about:
-design & innovation
-racing royalty
-property theft
and more! pic.twitter.com/6MbLKEDqOB

— John LePore (@JohnnyMotion) January 22, 2024

Guys, VR is the next big thing! Has been for 35 years!

TCTTS said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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None of this is really new. The concept has been around for a long time. The hangup is content for platforms like this and who builds all of the pretty models and animations. The content is kind of expensive to produce, and there are hardly any consumers for it because there's so little content. It's a lot easier, cheaper, and more deployable to print paper instructions or make a video for people to watch.

---

Please don't take this wrong way, but most of us are aware that a lot of this tech has been around for a while. People keep reminding us on every page, and since I'm not a big VR guy I genuinely do appreciate the context at times, but I'm posting mostly because it's cool just to see Apple's version of it all and how good it looks.

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We're not just saying, "This isn't that cool because it's been around a long time," we're saying, "This has been around a long time and hasn't moved the needle for a bunch of reasons this doesn't seem to address." It's not like the iPod or iPhone that brought together existing technologies and features in a new way that addressed fundamental hurdles to wide adoption or facilitated new use cases.

I've used VR for fun and work, and looking at this, it just doesn't seem earth shattering at all. A lot of what people look at as really cool in minute long X posts is going to get very tiresome very quickly. There is a mental and physical strain that comes with wearing a headset for a long time, and I'll tell you this is not something anyone will be wearing for work everyday. I went through a point where I was using a headset almost every day for about 2-3 months and it got very tiresome. I don't miss it.

I'm sure there are a lot of people really excited because this is an Apple product, but those expectations should be highly tempered. A lot of VR is like sex on the beach. It sounds fun and cool, but when you do it it's not nearly as great as you thought it would be.

You underestimate what marketing dollars and exposure can do.

Apple is famous for taking existing concepts and refining them for a mass market, as an Apple user I'm very familar. But even in the short time the Vision Pro has been announced the buzz and activity around it blows the doors off any previous attempts.

Are there still shortcomings? Absolutely, and they won't be solved in this generation or probably the next. But if anyone can bring a product like this to the masses it's Apple. They very well may fail, but people thought the same thing about the iPhone.

I'm curious to see where this ends up in a few years.

So how long until there is an underground market for recordings of people's real life experience during a crime or other affairs that you can "jack into" with the Vision Pro.

fig96 said:

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They very well may fail, but people thought the same thing about the iPhone.

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No one thought the iPhone would fail except maybe BlackBerry.

Proposition Joe said:

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Quote:

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Now, if you want to tell me that Hollywood is going to start making VR movies, where I get to sit in the car with Marvin when his face gets blown off, that's more interesting to me.

---

So many of the problems with this come down to what your brain and eyes can handle without wanting to puke.

I'm sure it's been improved, but I remember 4-5 years ago demoing the VR hack for Grand Theft Auto. Game has first person view so it basically already had the hooks to implement it. Cruising down Los Santos in my convertible, peering to the left and seeing what was to the left of me. Holy cow, this is awesome. Then I hit another car and was ejected through the windshield and the camera spun and... holy cow... not so awesome. Made my head hurt so bad I never tried it again.

There's just a whole lot of evolving the tech has to do to be "comfortable". Gaming is easy as it's an active engagement that you're willing to make comfort sacrifices for the experience.

But watching a movie? Doing work on multiple monitors? We still haven't come close to that being "comfortable" over the physical alternative.

Quote:

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The conversation I'm having is more about headsets five years from now/later this decade. Yes, right now, sitting in front of a TV is better, and will probably remain so for a while. But eventually, when the Vision Pro is thinner/lighter/cheaper, it could be a really cool/fun alternative to sitting in front of a TV, that offers an experience TV's can't touch.

---

While I agree with you, I think the timetable is off. Advancement in this area moves at a snails pace -- which is why Apple getting into the arena is/was welcomed. Google already basically said "nah, not worth the time/investment".

HTC Vive and the Oculus Rift were the first two major consumer VR hardware. Where we are at right now with VR from a hardware perspective compared to 8 years ago is miniscule.

---

I hear you, but Apple has already been hard at work on the next iteration of the Vision Pro for years now, and by all accounts it's coming out at some point in 2025/2026, will be cheaper/more consumer friendly, and also of course lighter/less bulky. Will it be cheap/light enough that everyone is suddenly going to go out and buy one? No. But in five to six year's time (let's just say by of the decade), if Apple keeps at this pace, we're talking about their FOURTH iteration. And that's when things could really get interesting. Sure, it will likely take longer than that for any kind of mass consumption. But with Apple now entering the game, continued advancements in AI, better batteries, etc, the same slow development timeline that VR has seen no longer applies. Progress is going to move exponentially.

fig96 said:

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You underestimate what marketing dollars and exposure can do.

Apple is famous for taking existing concepts and refining them for a mass market, as an Apple user I'm very familar. But even in the short time the Vision Pro has been announced the buzz and activity around it blows the doors off any previous attempts.

Are there still shortcomings? Absolutely, and they won't be solved in this generation or probably the next. But if anyone can bring a product like this to the masses it's Apple. They very well may fail, but people thought the same thing about the iPhone.

I'm curious to see where this ends up in a few years.

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tk for tu juan said:

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So how long until there is an underground market for recordings of people's real life experience during a crime or other affairs that you can "jack into" with the Vision Pro.

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Memories are meant to fade… They're designed that way for a reason.

AustinAg2K said:

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fig96 said:

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They very well may fail, but people thought the same thing about the iPhone.

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No one thought the iPhone would fail except maybe BlackBerry.

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Do some googling.

Proposition Joe said:

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tk for tu juan said:

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So how long until there is an underground market for recordings of people's real life experience during a crime or other affairs that you can "jack into" with the Vision Pro.

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Memories are meant to fade… They're designed that way for a reason.

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Serious question: How much experience do you have using and working with/in VR?