Wait, they are actually saying that Lucius is his son? Seems kinda spoilery, I think. But nope, I don't like it. I can see how that could be a thing, Maximus' proximity to the sister and all, but nope, I don't like it at all. Feels too convenient, like something the writers came up with to give it a direct tie back to the original movie. If they have a story worthy of being told as a sequel to Gladiator, well this damn sure isn't a selling point.
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It absolutely is. Sorry to spoil that for you. But it was in the trailer so I figured most people would have seen it.Quote:
Seems kinda spoilery
I wish it wasn't.
Maybe the image of real son was as remembered. He had not seen him for quite some time. Also, did it ever specify how long he was in captivity before getting to Rome?The Porkchop Express said:You were closer, the actors are 5 years apart. Not sure why I was too dumb to look them up in IMDB before posting.Brian Earl Spilner said:
They look at least 6 years apart to me.
Real son looks 5-6, Lucius looks 11-12.
I'm not against the retcon, because there were enough hints in the first movie that he could've been the father.
What I do dislike is that they revealed it in a freaking trailer. That should've been a huge moment in the movie.
Real son was 8 in 2000, so probably 7 when they filmed. He's also the kid in Life is Beautiful
Lucius was 12 when they filmed, 13 in 2000.
It's a pretty good point. They're fighting in Germany at the beginning. Maximus lives in Spain. Proximo buys him in like the Double A Gladiator league in Algeria and then he winds up in Rome. Just the travel among those places would be months.CCAg95 said:Maybe the image of real son was as remembered. He had not seen him for quite some time. Also, did it ever specify how long he was in captivity before getting to Rome?The Porkchop Express said:You were closer, the actors are 5 years apart. Not sure why I was too dumb to look them up in IMDB before posting.Brian Earl Spilner said:
They look at least 6 years apart to me.
Real son looks 5-6, Lucius looks 11-12.
I'm not against the retcon, because there were enough hints in the first movie that he could've been the father.
What I do dislike is that they revealed it in a freaking trailer. That should've been a huge moment in the movie.
Real son was 8 in 2000, so probably 7 when they filmed. He's also the kid in Life is Beautiful
Lucius was 12 when they filmed, 13 in 2000.
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Haven't seen the movie yet, but a couple points.
It's not necessarily a retcon. The original largely insinuated a previous relationship b/t Maximus and Lucilla prior to the story told on film. It wasn't really addressed and there was only a comment or two about Lucius' "father". Yes, Maximus was from "Spain", and had a wife and son that were killed. But the original definitely established there was something between them prior when they were younger. Remember when she appeared at the battle front and was almost trying to seduce him there and I seem to recall her making comments about when they were younger. Something like that.
Also, the original script had a love scene between Maximus and Lucilla. As told by Crowe, he basically had it removed from the film, bc it would take away from the love of his family/revenge arc. But Ridley Scott clearly had something in mind there
Hell, even the name Lucius is a mix of Lucilla and Maximus. It was definitely hinted at in the first film.
It's not necessarily a retcon. The original largely insinuated a previous relationship b/t Maximus and Lucilla prior to the story told on film. It wasn't really addressed and there was only a comment or two about Lucius' "father". Yes, Maximus was from "Spain", and had a wife and son that were killed. But the original definitely established there was something between them prior when they were younger. Remember when she appeared at the battle front and was almost trying to seduce him there and I seem to recall her making comments about when they were younger. Something like that.
Also, the original script had a love scene between Maximus and Lucilla. As told by Crowe, he basically had it removed from the film, bc it would take away from the love of his family/revenge arc. But Ridley Scott clearly had something in mind there
Hell, even the name Lucius is a mix of Lucilla and Maximus. It was definitely hinted at in the first film.
Quote:
Hell, even the name Lucius is a mix of Lucilla and Maximus.
I rewatched the trailer this afternoon but still didn't pick up on that.Brian Earl Spilner said:It absolutely is. Sorry to spoil that for you. But it was in the trailer so I figured most people would have seen it.Quote:
Seems kinda spoilery
I wish it wasn't.
Don't they discuss their sons being the same age or near the same age during their conversation when they first talk to each other?
It bears repeating that the real-life Emperor Commodus was about 3 million times crazier than the character in the movie.
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FTA03 said:
Don't they discuss their sons being the same age or near the same age during their conversation when they first talk to each other?
You're right, I believe they do. Again, having not seen the movie , I don't know how or if they even address it. I would think they have to if the trailer spoiler is correct. I do remember she also says something to the affect of "my father favors you" and he replies with "it wasn't always that way", could be implied they had something, he got sent away, she got married off while preggers with his kid, and while away, he knocks someone up and marries her bc of his honor, blah blah blah. Wouldn't be a massive gap in age between the kids. Total conjecture on my part.
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:I rewatched the trailer this afternoon but still didn't pick up on that.Brian Earl Spilner said:It absolutely is. Sorry to spoil that for you. But it was in the trailer so I figured most people would have seen it.Quote:
Seems kinda spoilery
I wish it wasn't.
You probably watched the first one.
Second trailer literally states "Take your father's strength. His name was Maximus."
The Porkchop Express said:
It bears repeating that the real-life Emperor Commodus was about 3 million times crazier than the character in the movie.
And Crowe is right. Maximus is supposed to be this highly honorable man and isn't the type that cheats on his wife.HummingbirdSaltalamacchia said:
Haven't seen the movie yet, but a couple points.
It's not necessarily a retcon. The original largely insinuated a previous relationship b/t Maximus and Lucilla prior to the story told on film. It wasn't really addressed and there was only a comment or two about Lucius' "father". Yes, Maximus was from "Spain", and had a wife and son that were killed. But the original definitely established there was something between them prior when they were younger. Remember when she appeared at the battle front and was almost trying to seduce him there and I seem to recall her making comments about when they were younger. Something like that.
Also, the original script had a love scene between Maximus and Lucilla. As told by Crowe, he basically had it removed from the film, bc it would take away from the love of his family/revenge arc. But Ridley Scott clearly had something in mind there
Hell, even the name Lucius is a mix of Lucilla and Maximus. It was definitely hinted at in the first film.
The only thing you can convince me of is that Lucius (being several years older than Maximus's son) was conceived during a tryst before Maximus met and married his wife. Even then the timelines are iffy.
Some excerpts for a historical fiction project I started last year that got moth balled when the client vanished on me. All of this stuff about the real Commodus is legit.Gigem314 said:The Porkchop Express said:
It bears repeating that the real-life Emperor Commodus was about 3 million times crazier than the character in the movie.
The empire was at the time under the rule of Emperor Commodus, a name well-known in popular culture due to the landmark 2000 motion picture "Gladiator" in which Commodus was played with exquisite dark malice by Academy-Award winner Joaquin Phoenix. Like that Commodus, ours had a very troubled reign, was preceded by his father, Marcus Aurelius, and indeed participated as gladiator at one point in history. Most of the similarities end there, so while it may be difficult to dispel the mental picture of the brooding young Phoenix from your mind in the early going of this tale, you will find that our Commodus - the one who reigned over the Empire for some 15 years - was markedly different than his on-screen doppelganger, but isn't that always the case?
The first thing that Commodus did as Emperor quickly raised eyebrows. Aurelius and Commodus had been along the Danube to repulse invading German tribes, who had been emboldened by news of Cassius's rebellion and were trying to take back some of their own territory. Aurelius had come to smash their hopes and push them back, but after he died Commodus swiftly agreed to terms with them - perhaps devastated by his father's death or perhaps as an early portent of erratic behavior to come.
According to one of his biographers, Commodus made the choice in order "to enjoy the pleasure of the capital with the servile and profligate youths whom Marcus had banished, but who soon regained their station and influence about the emperor." Rather like a bad 1980s movie, Commodious got the keys to the company once his old man kicked the bucket, and immediately invited all of his idiot friends to come party. It was said that Commodus amassed a harem of 300 young women, and a second one of 300 young men to tend to his lusts. He spent far more time with these new friends than he did in any sort of administration position. Perhaps one of the problems with taking a boy of such a young age on trips to military fronts, not to mention promoting him to positions of authority when he hadn't even mastered himself, was that he had no idea what to do and no interest in learning once he became Emperor.
Those friends would become the opinions he trusted most throughout his rule, another big problem. Despite the many negatives the first three years of his reign were mostly Commodus partying and letting the government run the government, resulting in peace after two decades of war.
Commodus's rule was one filled with making enemies, foiling plots, and attempting to make himself as one of gods to retain his power base against all those who would oppose him.
That was quite the list. In 182, his sister Luicilla conspired with several senators to attempt an assassination, but it failed. Rather than try to broker a peace with the Senate, Commodus went on the warpath, having several leading senators executed in public to exert his wrath. The assassins tried to stab him while he was entering a theater performance, but failed. They were killed as well and Lucilla was exiled to Capri. The exile didn't last long, however, because Commodus had her killed a year later.
In 186, Commodus was under pressure from the army, and gave them a blood price, executing his own chief minister. That man's replacement, Marcus Aurelius Cleander - like Commodus himself, one of our point-of-view characters in this book - wasn't much more popular. When he was threatened by a rioting crowd in 189, Commodus opted to let them have their 'fun' rather than save him. He replaced this chief of staff with two other advisers and the sage wisdom of his current wisdom.
Surviving the assassination attempt opened Commodus's eyes to the relative 'fun' of the world of intrigue and assassination. In other words, once had a taste for blood, he found it intoxicating, to the detriment of the people of Rome. He would execute anyone for any crime - real or imagined. Your wealth or power couldn't save you anymore than your anonymity in the vast city could.
In hindsight, it appears Commodus's problem wasn't that he didn't get enough of an education (it was extensive) or that his father died too soon, but rather that he was insane, and that process rapidly accelerated as he got more comfortable in his new role as undisputed ruler of everything. In terms of youth and bizarreness, a modern-day example might be US pop singer Michael Jackson. Both Jackson and Commodus were internationally famous within the first few years of their lives, traveled extensively around the world at an age that most children were being grounded in the traditional family unit, and upon reaching adulthood, suddenly had unlimited wealth and fame thrust upon them with nothing in the ways of checks and balances. Jackson earned $4 million in 1979 at age 20, his first year as a solo artist. In 1983, the year he released the seminal album "Thriller", he made $43 million at age 24 and soon after had bought his Neverland Ranch and tried to buy Disneyland itself. The following year, he added a clothing line and an endorsement campaign with Pepsi and made $91 million.
Commodus had his own cult-like following, despite a bunch of bizarre public decisions of his own. Among his greatest hits, he announced that he was renaming Rome as Colonia Commodiana (the Colony of Commodus). He did this after a fire tore apart some of the city, and he thought it was ripe time for a rebuild and a renaming. He also declared that the Roman people were now the Commodiani and the Senate itself was the Commodian Fortunate Senate. Amazingly, these names did not stick.
He believed he was the reincarnation of the Greek and Roman demigod Hercules, and he went into the Colosseum as a gladiator and armed as an archer to kill lions. He loved being seen as a great warrior and hunter. His biographer and critic Dio Cassius wrote that over a two-day stretch he killed a giraffe, a rhinoceros, two elephants, and five hippopotamuses.
Another day he threw spears until he killed a sum total of 100 bears, although he did this from the safety of the stands of the Colosseum successfully out of the reach of any angry paws. That was one of his better ideas, truth to be told. In another instance, he assembled a group of men who had all lost their feet somehow, dressed them up like servants, and they gave them sponges that he told everyone were rocks, to throw at him in a fight. Meanwhile he ran around clubbing them all to death, telling the crowd they were actually giants. When he fought actual gladiators, he had sense not to try and kill any of them - good gladiators were quite popular and very expensive to replace - although he would occasionally cut off an ear or a nose in his bloodlust. The gladiators to a man made sure to give a good show before 'losing' to their Emperor - sounding an awful lot like the birth of professional wrestling. Commodus told admirers that not only had he won 12,000 matches in the arena, but that he had won most of them left-handed.
Despite the fact that there was no proof that Hercules had even been a real person, he continued that obsession well into his reign, eventually having the head of a 100-foot statue of Nero taken off and replaced with a replica of his own head. He added a club and a lion to the ensemble in case anyone had forgotten about the Hercules comparison. He ordered that four other statues of himself as Hercules be made and distributed to the four corners of the Roman Empire.
Seeking to permeate seemingly every aspect of Roman culture he also renamed all of the months of the year with names for himself or, you guessed it, Hercules. August- named for Augustus - was renamed Commodus, and October became Hercules.
He survived a third assassination attempt in 187, but it looked like they finally got him in 192 when his mistress helped two high-ranking officials get him to ingest either poisoned wine or meat or possibly both. Unfortunately for them, he survived the incident, leading them to stop being so elaborate. They hired a wrestler named Narcissus who came into Commodus's chambers while he was taking a bath and strangled him to death in 192 at the young age of 31.
After the golden age of Marcus Aurelius, the Roman people were brought down to the basest of levels by Commodus's leadership, or lack thereof. The assassination was surely a sign of great relief that things would get better almost immediately with him out of the way. His replacement, Publius Helvius Pertinax, was a freed slave, an officer in the army, and had been a provincial governor, urban prefect, and Roman senator. He seemed an ideal replacement and immediately set to work on several short-term measures to bring some order and civility back to Rome. He tried to emulate the ways of Marcus Aurelius, and all that got him was dead in record time; his 'reign' was 87 days. After so much debauchery and anarchy, the Roman people weren't exactly to go back to the days of law and order it seemed. In late March 193, just three months into his reign, Pertinax was awakened to several hundred Praetorian Guards at his gates demanding back pay. He tried to reason with the soldiers and was killed by one of them. The Praetorians proceeded to auction off the title of Emperor to a wealthy senator named Diduus Julianus, who lasted even less time than Pertinax, murdered on June 1, 193 after two months as the Emperor. Septimius Severus was his assassin and took the title, holding it for 18 years, although those were thought of as declining times.
Of Marcus Auelius and Commodus's legacy, Cassius Dio wrote, "Just one thing prevented (Marcus Aurelius) from being completely happy, namely that after rearing and educating his son in the best possible way, he was vastly disappointed in him. This matter must be our next topic, for our history now descends from a kingdom of gold to one of iron and rust, as affairs did for the Romans of that day."
Of the relationship of Marcus Aurelius and Commodus, Michael Grant, in the "Climax of Rome", surmises that there was no way that the father could have known what the son would become, but that had he chosen someone else to become Emperor instead, a civil war would have likely followed.
Ain't no one reading all that
I did! Amazing l!
But I used voiceover to read it to me (triple click on iPhone)
But I used voiceover to read it to me (triple click on iPhone)
Thank you for that info! Sounds like Commie was truly the pits.
That is fascinating. Thanks for sharing!
How has Tarentino not tried to do a movie about this? Would be epic.
How has Tarentino not tried to do a movie about this? Would be epic.
Commodus was undoubtedly insane, but my favorite act of crazy from any Roman emperor was when Caligula marched his army to Northern France, intent on conquering Britain, only to think better of it when he got to the channel, order every man in his army to collect seashells, and then return to Rome to show off his seashells as proof of his victory over the sea.
Thanks and gig'em
I saw the movie again, it was great but noticed one thing on the rewatch that really made me scratch my head.
in the scene where Hanno is first brought before Denzel Washington, he's made to Spar with Denzel's drill sergeant Viggo. I didn't notice it the first time; but Viggo throws down some spiked gloves, which Hanno doesn't use. However, Viggo is using gloves with gigantic half inch pointy spikes coming out of them, and is slugging Hanno full on on the face multiple times. These punches would not only be fatal, but would also leave gigantic punctures and rips in his skin, instead of merely a black eye. Really odd
in the scene where Hanno is first brought before Denzel Washington, he's made to Spar with Denzel's drill sergeant Viggo. I didn't notice it the first time; but Viggo throws down some spiked gloves, which Hanno doesn't use. However, Viggo is using gloves with gigantic half inch pointy spikes coming out of them, and is slugging Hanno full on on the face multiple times. These punches would not only be fatal, but would also leave gigantic punctures and rips in his skin, instead of merely a black eye. Really odd
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