Sanderson's Cosmere

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Micah97
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In reply to Absolute • 4:57a, 11/23/20
AG
Absolute said:
W.C. Griffin '09 said:
Exsurge Domine said:
Quad Dog said:
I remember Tor put this out before Oathbringer to summarize the two previous books. They could do something like this again before the fourth.

https://www.tor.com/2017/08/15/stormlight-archive-refresher/


I'm a sick man, I reread the entire series every time a new book comes out.


I do, too


Me too. Getting to be kind of a big commitment. Think I started in September this year.


The same and also did it for each wheel of time book.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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In reply to Micah97 • 8:15a, 11/23/20
AG
Micah97 said:
Absolute said:
W.C. Griffin '09 said:
Exsurge Domine said:
Quad Dog said:
I remember Tor put this out before Oathbringer to summarize the two previous books. They could do something like this again before the fourth.

https://www.tor.com/2017/08/15/stormlight-archive-refresher/


I'm a sick man, I reread the entire series every time a new book comes out.


I do, too


Me too. Getting to be kind of a big commitment. Think I started in September this year.


The same and also did it for each wheel of time book.
Currently in my first reading of WoT, and while i am enjoying it, i dont think i could have done that.

that said, with Stormlight, ive re-read the entire series, including the novella, prior to the release of the new books. this last time i started in september, thinking it would take me until close to the release of RoW....aaaaaaand i was done by mid october. there is something about his writing, the characters, that pulls me in each time and i just burn thru chapters. that said, i still have to mentally and emotionally prepare myself for the gut punches: Amaram's betrayal, Elhokar's death, Dalinar's burning of the rift. those hit hard, even on my 3rd or 4th+ time thru.
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Lathspell
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In reply to HummingbirdSaltalamacchia • 11:57a, 11/23/20
AG
I'm still confused on what we should be considering as "spoilers".

Should we start a separate thread for those who are caught up to be able to discuss?

"Stormlight Archive Discussion: Rhythm of War", or something like that? I'd hate to ruin something for someone looking to get into this series, but also think it ridiculous to spoiler tag entire discussions.
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heddleston
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1:01p, 11/23/20
AG
It's tricky because there's probably not enough traffic to warrant separate threads for each book, plus search sucks, and also even with separate threads there's folks all over the place in regards to what all in the Cosmere they've read. stuff can get cross referenced and inadvertently spoiled easily. I'd be fine if we just try and keep spoiler tags going with a note to what books are referenced inside the spoiler tags? It's by no means an elegant solution but it would work.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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In reply to Lathspell • 1:20p, 11/23/20
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
I'm still confused on what we should be considering as "spoilers".

Should we start a separate thread for those who are caught up to be able to discuss?

"Stormlight Archive Discussion: Rhythm of War", or something like that? I'd hate to ruin something for someone looking to get into this series, but also think it ridiculous to spoiler tag entire discussions.
fair enough. i almost included the tags but assumed most on this thread were probably thru Oathbringer. but i made an edit and added spoiler tags just in case.
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BigBrother
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1:52p, 11/23/20
AG
Done. Trying to collect my thoughts. I definitely got frustrated during this one. Also lost sleep trying to finish.
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Lathspell
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2:49a, 11/24/20
AG
Finished. Definitely my least favorite of the series, so far. Felt a lot like Elantris too me. I feel like I was pushing through so much mundane story just to get to the end where I knew there would be something cool.

Will wait for others to finish before posting all my thoughts. Really hoping the next one is better.
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W.C. Griffin '09
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4:27a, 11/24/20
AG
Started my reread way too late. Still on Words of Radiance
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Definitely Not A Cop
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9:48a, 11/24/20
AG
Finished it last night. Right now it's above WOR for me, but below WOK and Oathbringer.
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Ornithopter
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11:36a, 11/24/20
AG
I've stalled out about 2/3 of the way through.
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Lathspell
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 6:04p, 11/24/20
AG
I don't see that at all. WoR is by far my favorite of the seris

1. WoR
2. Oathbringer
3. WoK
4. RoW

My thoughts (RoW Spoilers):

I didn't really like how many of the things teased in Oathbringer, which I then hypothesized on, were just given to us without any fanfare. For example, Jasnah being able to summon Shardplate. What was the point in being cryptic about that in Oathbringer when you were just going to throw it in randomly in RoW? I know there were others, but I can't remember them right now.

Really, I'm just getting tired of being in the head of these characters CONTINUALLY struggling with the same thing, every book. It is getting tedious and I hope I don't have to trudge through another 1,200 pages of Kalidan being sad he can't save people and Shallan being afraid to face her past then doing stupid things. I get the point and understand Sanderson likes to play with his mental illness stuff, but I personally don't like being in the head of a depressed person for hundreds of pages across multiple books.

I spent all that time, bored out of my mind with Kaladin, knowing he was finally going to swear the 4th ideal and convert windspren to armor. That was fairly obvious with all of the hints from the series, this far. I just feel the occupation of Urithiru dragged on, and on, and on. From the early chapter when Raboniel gave her plan, I knew they would take the tower, Kaladin would not have his powers for a while, then he would swear the 4th ideal and fight them off. Why did I have to wait the entire book for that?

Then he killed Teft. I really was pissed at Sanderson at that point. I get a subpar, tedious story ending in the death of one of his good characters. IDK... I guess I felt betrayed by him as a reader. If you are going to kill a character like that, at least give me a good story first.

I did like the reveal of Shallan breaking her oaths before. That really explained so much that I saw as a gaping hole in the story. Always wondered how she had a shardblade but then started from scratch with pattern. I thought she had done that, but with Pattern.

Secret History and RoW sp
I guess it's pretty obvious that Thaidakar is Kelsier. Will be interesting to see what happens there.
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PatAg
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9:53a, 11/25/20
AG
I get not enjoying certain characters pov or story, thats natural. I don't agree with equating that with the book not being good
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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In reply to Lathspell • 10:25a, 11/25/20
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
I don't see that at all. WoR is by far my favorite of the seris

1. WoR
2. Oathbringer
3. WoK
4. RoW

My thoughts (RoW Spoilers):

I didn't really like how many of the things teased in Oathbringer, which I then hypothesized on, were just given to us without any fanfare. For example, Jasnah being able to summon Shardplate. What was the point in being cryptic about that in Oathbringer when you were just going to throw it in randomly in RoW? I know there were others, but I can't remember them right now.

Really, I'm just getting tired of being in the head of these characters CONTINUALLY struggling with the same thing, every book. It is getting tedious and I hope I don't have to trudge through another 1,200 pages of Kalidan being sad he can't save people and Shallan being afraid to face her past then doing stupid things. I get the point and understand Sanderson likes to play with his mental illness stuff, but I personally don't like being in the head of a depressed person for hundreds of pages across multiple books.

I spent all that time, bored out of my mind with Kaladin, knowing he was finally going to swear the 4th ideal and convert windspren to armor. That was fairly obvious with all of the hints from the series, this far. I just feel the occupation of Urithiru dragged on, and on, and on. From the early chapter when Raboniel gave her plan, I knew they would take the tower, Kaladin would not have his powers for a while, then he would swear the 4th ideal and fight them off. Why did I have to wait the entire book for that?

Then he killed Teft. I really was pissed at Sanderson at that point. I get a subpar, tedious story ending in the death of one of his good characters. IDK... I guess I felt betrayed by him as a reader. If you are going to kill a character like that, at least give me a good story first.

I did like the reveal of Shallan breaking her oaths before. That really explained so much that I saw as a gaping hole in the story. Always wondered how she had a shardblade but then started from scratch with pattern. I thought she had done that, but with Pattern.

Secret History and RoW sp
I guess it's pretty obvious that Thaidakar is Kelsier. Will be interesting to see what happens there.
Man I dunno about some of the responses on this thread, but i thoroughly enjoyed it. WoK is easily #1 for me, mainly bc its the first, but Kal's story is what hooked me. Then followed closely by Oathbringer, RoW then WoR. Probably in that order, but RoW could supplant Oathbringer on re-reads.I thought it was more emotional than WoR and about on par with Oathbringer.

RoW Spoiler reaction:
I was fine with Jasnah's reveal as having said the 4th ideal, and is the only instance that i remember thinking "oh, we're getting that info just like that then". Not everything needs to be this "oh ****, big reveal". I dont know if Brandon intended for that nugget to be closely guarded in Oathbringer. It was almost as if he expected us to read what we did there and go "oh ****, shes 4th ideal"....and when most people, including myself, didnt pick up on it, he had to lay it out plainly in RoW. But her and Wit?? damn, was NOT expecting that.

The being in everyone's head does get a little frustrating at times, but Brandon always brings it back around. It feels real, bc while by the end of the book, each of those characters seems to make progress, there are always going to be triggers in their life. Plus, their "progress" from previous books, on retrospect, was a quick fix and not a true solution to their problems, even though in the moment it felt like steps forward. despite the trudge of it all, it feels REAL and makes the characters that more so, so i can appreciate it more,

I loved the Occupation of Urithiru, mainly bc Raboniel was such a great/complex villain. The whole time i am thinking this is Fantasy DieHard , and Raboniel was my Hans Gruber, but Sanderson layered in some more nuance to her character with the daughter and hers and Navani's scholarly pursuits. If anything, parts of it felt rushed. I would have liked more for Kaladin to do. But all the stuff Raboniel and Navani discussed, all the Cosmere nuggets, the further depth of the Investiture, the relationship between the Rhythms and the Lights, made it worth it to me.

Teft....first off, RIP. Not going to lie, literally brought tears to my eyes. "TEFT. KNIGHT RADIANT" was one of the most exhilarating, fist pump moments i have ever had in any book or novel. Loved his character. I do agree that I wish we would have spent some more time with him, rather than him being in a Coma for 60% of the book. May have have made for a better send off. That said, his arc came full circle, and while i am bummed he is gone. i think it was handled well.

Everything in Shadesmar was great to me. I was almost cringing at the whole "Formless" thing, but Brandon nailed that, with the reveal of her first Spren and then Shallan finally absorbing one of her other personalities. I was really nervous for Adolin as i thought that the only way for him to succeed would be his ultimate "honorable" sacrifice. Im glad that it wasnt.

Finally, Taravangian is the new Odium?? Did NOT see that coming although i was thinking that his boon and curse from Cultivation wasnt what we thought it was. something about that just seemed off to me. Which this has me really wanting to know what Cultivations end game is, and further, wanting to know more about the relationships between the Shards. How they arent allowed to take direct action against one another, etc.

Cosmere related: The ****ing Seon though?! Holy ***** Thaidakar is Kelsier? What the hell is he doing? Why is is seemingly allied with Mraize and trying to pull strings on Roshar? Whats HIS endgame? (which further brings up, is The Set the same organization as the Ghostbloods or allied with them or neither? Is Iyatil Sequence or someone else?)

Poor Hoid/Cephandrius/Wit.....getting it on with Jasnah only to have his Breaths taken like that. i think is smart enough to have either expected that or has somethign in his backpocket

Also, was the Fused at the end, El i think, that had the rhythms taken from them, did they have a hemalurgic spike? did i catch that?
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Lathspell
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In reply to HummingbirdSaltalamacchia • 11:09a, 11/25/20
AG
I may have missed the hemalurgic spike thing, on El. I do know that Sanderson has confirmed Hemalurgy works across the Cosmere.

One thing this book did confirm is that the entire Cosmere will be a big deal in the books to come. Or at least, you will feel lost if you don't read them all. From the sound of it, Surgebinding seems to be viewed as one of the most powerful forms of Investiture and seems to be usable across the Cosmere. Granted, I'm assuming this from the tidbits we got from Odium. But how would a surgebinder have access to Stormlight when offworld? I guess he is viewing it as having access to Voidlight when he is able to escape his bonds to the Rosharon system.The Seon thing was interesting, though it has been a while since I read Elantris.

That last part, with Wit, seemed weird. He is a being that is more than human and has existing for thousands of years... and then he just blatantly opens himself to Odium's influence? Loses his breaths and doesn't realize it? IDK, that seemed awfully convenient, unless there is some plan from Wit that we will learn later. I am also interested to see him actually use Allomancy, on this planet.

Again, I felt about the book the same I did Elantris. Was it well written? Yes. Were the characters good? Yes. Was it slow and boring? YES.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand how someone can put WoR at the bottom of their list.

I am still a bit confused on Odium. He seems to be partially confined to Braize, but able to act on Roshar and provide investiture to Roshar. Taravangian taking up the Shard was definitely surprising. I remember Sanderson saying everyone in the Cosmere, including the Shards, should have a healthy fear of Nightblood
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Lathspell
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In reply to PatAg • 11:13a, 11/25/20
AG
I give it a 6 or 7 out of 10.

If I find the PoV's boring and the entire book too long with little to no ups and downs in the story causing me to feel very "meh" on the entire book... why wouldn't I consider the book to not be that great? It's called an opinion. How each person bases their opinion is totally up to their point of view.

I don't think it is a bad book. I just did not enjoy it very much and didn't feel like it even came close to the other books.

In the same vein, I can't see how anyone wouldn't rank WoR at the top of the series.
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Chipotlemonger
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11:18a, 11/25/20
AG
I need to take this off my watch list! Will be back later once I am caught up.
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Chase McGuire
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In reply to Lathspell • 12:48p, 11/25/20
I haven't really gotten much of a start on RoW, but WoR is easily my least favorite of the first three. To each their own.
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heddleston
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3:27p, 11/25/20
AG
I give it at least an 8/10 if for no other reason than it made me actually give a crap about Venli. Seriously, i hated her in WoR, Oathbringer, and the early parts of RoW and then Sanderson went and redeemed the crap out of her. I cried when she found the Listeners and her mom. Can't wait to see Listener Willshapers riding frickin Chasmfiends across the Shattered Plains and wrecking fools.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to Lathspell • 6:49p, 11/25/20
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
I give it a 6 or 7 out of 10.

If I find the PoV's boring and the entire book too long with little to no ups and downs in the story causing me to feel very "meh" on the entire book... why wouldn't I consider the book to not be that great? It's called an opinion. How each person bases their opinion is totally up to their point of view.

I don't think it is a bad book. I just did not enjoy it very much and didn't feel like it even came close to the other books.

In the same vein, I can't see how anyone wouldn't rank WoR at the top of the series.


Shallan is my least favorite character, and she is the main POV in that book.

ROW spoiler
With all of the crazy twists at the end, I think my favorite part of the book is when Jasnah finally releases Wit on the high prince. That was brutally awesome.
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Lathspell
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 8:39p, 11/25/20
AG
That was a good scene.

I mean, the book did have some good scenes and there were some surprises. I admit I was up in the air the whole book on whether they would be able to save Urithiru. I believed the 4th ideal for Kalidan was about accepting he couldn't save everyone and he would do that as he chose to retreat from the city while protecting the last refugees.

A 6 would be too harsh, but I would leave it at a 7/10

I'm pretty certain the chasm fiend we saw was actually Eshonai, based on that one chapter.
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heddleston
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In reply to Lathspell • 9:22p, 11/25/20
AG
I thought that might be the case while i was reading it, but the last line says, "Bursting with songs, Eshonai let herself pass into the eternities, excited to discover what lay on the other side." While i would love to have people possessing Chasmfiends, The chapter was just that the Stormfather let Eshonai explore Roshar as one last gift and then she moved on to the spiritual realm.
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PatAg
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 3:26a, 11/26/20
AG
Champ Bailey said:
DallasTeleAg said:
I give it a 6 or 7 out of 10.

If I find the PoV's boring and the entire book too long with little to no ups and downs in the story causing me to feel very "meh" on the entire book... why wouldn't I consider the book to not be that great? It's called an opinion. How each person bases their opinion is totally up to their point of view.

I don't think it is a bad book. I just did not enjoy it very much and didn't feel like it even came close to the other books.

In the same vein, I can't see how anyone wouldn't rank WoR at the top of the series.


Shallan is my least favorite character, and she is the main POV in that book.

ROW spoiler
With all of the crazy twists at the end, I think my favorite part of the book is when Jasnah finally releases Wit on the high prince. That was brutally awesome.
She's my least favorite 'main' character as well.
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KALALL
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5:11p, 11/26/20
AG
The flashbacks got better as the book went on and I ended up liking them.

Edit: I apparently don't know how to do spoiler tags.
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PatAg
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8:21p, 11/26/20
AG
welp
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shaynew1
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9:19p, 11/26/20
AG
In his defense it's hard for me to imagine a less surprising spoiler
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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In reply to KALALL • 9:52p, 11/26/20
AG
kaleb_allison said:
The flashbacks got better as the book went on and I ended up liking them.
.


Same. For some reason I never picked up on Venli having already been working with Ulim for years prior to the events of WoR. So to see the build up and Venli's "runaway ambition" leading to the events "behind the scenes" of the treaty/assassination was really illuminating and incredibly well written. I especially was interested in how Szeth just happened to be there and Nales interjection when Venli was apprehended.
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia
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In reply to Lathspell • 10:00p, 11/26/20
AG
DallasTeleAg said:
I may have missed the hemalurgic spike thing, on El. I do know that Sanderson has confirmed Hemalurgy works across the Cosmere.


Rereading that last bit: When the Pursuer awoke and noticed El, he remarks: " The figure had twisting horns on his head and carapace that reflected the light wrong. He always ripped off his natural carapace formations at each rebirth, then replaced them with metal inclusions. They were incorporated into his body by Voidlight healing and his own special talents." I mean, that screams hemalurgic spikes right?
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Lathspell
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In reply to HummingbirdSaltalamacchia • 10:28p, 11/26/20
AG
I don't read it that way, but who knows.
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maverick2076
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1:47p, 11/27/20
Just finished. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I'm glad to see the Cosmere connections becoming more explicit. That needed to happen, and with Roshar being the centerpiece of at least this arc of the Cosmere, it seems like the right place and time for it.

I can see how some of you didn't enjoy a lot of Kaladin's arc in this book, and I get it. For me, his struggles with PTSD rang true. I could identify with him, and with his struggle to find meaning through helping others like him. Speaking from personal experience, that shared bond of brothers in arms is real, and it helps.

I hate Moash so much for what he has become, because it feels so real. I've watched soldiers and friends go down that path, and I know how easy it is to start down that dark road. I'm holding out hope that, in the end, he redeems himself. In the end, Sanderson is big on redemption, so I hope it is still out there for Moash (and Taravangian)
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to HummingbirdSaltalamacchia • 4:14p, 11/27/20
AG
HummingbirdSaltalamacchia said:
kaleb_allison said:
The flashbacks got better as the book went on and I ended up liking them.
.


Same. For some reason I never picked up on Venli having already been working with Ulim for years prior to the events of WoR. So to see the build up and Venli's "runaway ambition" leading to the events "behind the scenes" of the treaty/assassination was really illuminating and incredibly well written. I especially was interested in how Szeth just happened to be there and Nales interjection when Venli was apprehended.


does anyone have any guesses as to who the human was who gave her Ulim originally?
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heddleston
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 4:42p, 11/27/20
AG
I don't think we know her, but it seems like there's a pretty good chance she's a Feruchemist
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AgLiving06
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4:44p, 11/29/20
Just finished RoW.

I think what was missing from this book was the normal "sanderlanche" that we've come to expect. Even Kal saying the 4th ideal was telegraphed the whole book. There were a couple surprises, but nothing that really left me blown away like we got in some of the other books. This one seemed more about world (or really cosmere) building than anything else. Nothing wrong with that, but I hope he doesn't find himself stuck in that like the WoT did.

What am I missing on the Thaidakar is Kelsier? Would that ruin Kelsier for anyone if they saw how cruel he was becoming in his pursuit of returning to his body? I get we saw different motives in Secret History, but if he's running these "gangs," that's a whole new level and probably actually evil vs what we saw in Mistborn era 1.

I think I probably rate this the lowest of the 4 books so far. It felt like for the first time that Sanderson was aiming to write a 1200 page book vs writing a book that ended up 1200 pages long. So many "scenes" could have been reduced down or even skipped to get us to the same point with the same understanding.
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Lathspell
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 6:29p, 11/29/20
AG
RoW and Secret History Spoiler
If you're asking why we are saying that is Kelsier, it is because they called him Lord of Scars and Wit sent the message via Shallan that he would have to whip his ass like he did before, if he doesn't stay out of this world. We also know Kelsier is out there doing things. To be honest, it's been so long since i read Secret History, I don't remember how it ended. But we do know, from Bands of Mourning, that Kelsier is "alive" and active in the Cosmere.
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heddleston
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 10:56p, 12/1/20
AG
Kelsier being Thaidakar is a long to take in, but Sanderson is also on record calling Kelsier a psychopath and that in most circumstances he'd be a villain and not the good guy. It never occured to me that he was foreshadowing him being a bad dude on a full blown cosmere level, but im not shocked by it either.
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Saxsoon
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11:20p, 12/1/20
AG
I am reading Elantris for the first time. I really love the concept he created for this.
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