Aggie12B said:

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irish pete ag06 said:

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Only going to read replies to my post to avoid spoilers. Is this season any good? I thought season 1 was phenomenal. Season 2 was hot meh.

I'm about to finish Narcos, Is this worth watching next?

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Hell's yes it is worth watching.

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Awesome! Thanks!

irish pete ag06 said:

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Only going to read replies to my post to avoid spoilers. Is this season any good? I thought season 1 was phenomenal. Season 2 was hot meh.

I'm about to finish Narcos, Is this worth watching next?

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It's much better than S2. Some even think it's as good or better than S1. At worst it is nearly as good as S1.

The performances are incredible. 3 of them at least are nomination worthy to me (and I hear that a lot from others). It takes a few episodes for the depth of those performances to weigh in. But besides the obvious lead Ali, both McNairy and Dorff are killing it.

you might know the three from:

Mahershala Ali - Moonlight, Free State of Jones, or Tv series House of cards (Remy), and Luke Cage (Cornell Cottonmouth Stokes)

Scoot McNairy - Narcos (narrator/Walt), Halt and Catch Fire (Gordon), Fargo( Maurice LeFlay)

Stephen Dorff - mostly a sporadic "other guy" in many movies - Blade, World Trade Center, Immortals, Deuces Wild, Somewhere, Jackals, etc. but he damn near steals this series (imho). This is gonna re-launch the guy to some great roles I feel.

Quote:

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Stephen Dorff - mostly a sporadic "other guy" in many movies - Blade, World Trade Center, Immortals, Deuces Wild, Somewhere, Jackals, etc. but he damn near steals this series (imho). This is gonna re-launch the guy to some great roles I feel.

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How dare you belittle Deacon Frost like that.

Bunk Moreland said:

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Quote:

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Stephen Dorff - mostly a sporadic "other guy" in many movies - Blade, World Trade Center, Immortals, Deuces Wild, Somewhere, Jackals, etc. but he damn near steals this series (imho). This is gonna re-launch the guy to some great roles I feel.

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How dare you belittle Deacon Frost like that.

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ok sure my bad..... errrrr the movie is called "Blade" tho...not Deacon.

Hay's daughter is either taken by the same group that took Julie because he's getting too close.

Amelia gets killed by the one-eyed-black guy.

Hays loses his ***** They come to kill him too but find out he's already lost his mind and just leave him.

Maybe.

Oh yeah and Dorffs character is in on it

gomerschlep said:

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Oh yeah and Dorffs character is in on it

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WTF?

Very true, I do know a couple of older gay dudes that live in a similar setup.

Interesting theory but that seems like a LOT to unwind (along with everything else still floating around) in only two remaining episodes.

yeah i know.... that's another reason i left it out.

So much really in the case itself but.... SOMETHING happened to Roland and Hays too and it appears to be unrelated to the case. Because Roland is living alone and kinda bitter toward Hays.... but it's not about the case as he is more or less willing to help him out about that. Whatever it was, since Hays does not remember, Roland just kinda let's it go and helps him.

I could be wrong of course but my radar went up at that dinner scene watching their interaction (or lack of). and I started thinking back to them meeting, how roland was to women (crude talk but no action really until the church lady), then never married living isolated and all that, and then back to some of him and Tom's closeness. That was all before the Tom reveal - that pretty much nailed it for me.

It does seem like a lot for the story though - almost shoehorning that in there. Maybe not much time is spent on it from a storytelling point of view but it becomes obvious or just stated for a fact (like the stuff with Hays son and Elisa the clues were there but the reveal was just a brief conversation).

We'll see.

Stive said:

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Put me down as thinking they won't address Hays' daughter again either. I don't think she's kidnapped, I don't think she's dead. I think she's in California and doesn't want to come back around anymore....just like her brother said.

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Like mother like daughter finding her way in cali

Nice investigative thoughts on Roland being gay, but just as conspiracy theories go, we can always build excuses and innuendos into facts. I'm personall not buying it, however, if you're correct, you will get the unspoken of, "Texags Super Sherlock Detective Award"

And, how cool is it that everyone into TD3 is kinda working together without belittling anybody for their outlandish theories? I'd imagine this is how real mysteries are solved- every theory gets respect.

If it's not true I'm fine with it too - I'm not defending it like that. And I'll admit I was wrong if so. I'd only give it a 60-70% chance of being true anyway. It's just something that struck me and I have not been able to ignore it since. Part of why I didn't mention it - it becomes distracting watching for stuff like that while still looking at the important part the crime and mystery.

There are definitely red herrings too... I mean the entire hole in the wall was a red herring. I believe the Amelia and Becca stuff are red herrings too. Even the "pumpkin lady" I've seen discussed other places (the woman in the opening that waved to the kids from her porch, then was in the background with Lucy several times at their house, at the town hall meeting, running out after her this last episode she was probably her ride). Doubtful she is involved but she is shoehorned into several scenes.

Not important really - but I just think he is.

Regarding sudden reveal kidnappings and main characters coming out of the closet -- that's not how this show has been shown to operate, and with 2 episodes left I doubt they try and cram something like that in.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think some people mis-remember how deep Season 1 was as far as plot. Sure there were talks over-arching grand conspiracies with cults, Carcosa and the Yellow King but in what I'm guessing is very "True" to real life "Detective" work, in the end it was just some guy related to some powerful people who had just gone off the deep end and the season wrapped up without any big reveal.

So far you have much of the same type plot points... Whispers of a grand conspiracy by men of power, hints that maybe one of the detectives families/children will wind up involved, police investigation steered/derailed by influence from above, yellow kings, princesses in pink rooms, etc, etc...

S1 and thus far S3 both are fairly paint-by-numbers detective stories so I wouldn't expect anything too shocking out of the last 2 episodes. It's the acting, dialogue and setting that take the show to another level, not the story.

BowSowy said:

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I'm guessing you read the post episode reddit threads, too?

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No. Never have. I don't do reddit. I mean not actively like I don't post or follow anything there. Although I sometimes run across stuff going down rabbit holes.

I did google on this theory on Roland after the fact and saw a few hits there. Certainly I'm not alone in that theory.

The pumpkin lady stuff is on reddit though - seems really unlikely. That is where I saw that.

When Amelia was at the battered women's shelter interviewing that woman in this past episode, I thought it was an interesting nod back to Season 1 when the woman/girl looked outside and the camera focused in on the man getting out of the blue lawn care truck.

Haven't read anything. Without spoilers --

Is this actually worthy of the name? Is it as good as season 1 and should I jump in? (Gave up on S2 after a few eps.)

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Haven't read anything. Without spoilers --

Is this actually worthy of the name? Is it as good as season 1 and should I jump in? (Gave up on S2 after a few eps.)

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Scroll to the top of this page - NO SPOILERS - someone asked the same yesterday and the top 2 posts on this page address that without spoilers.

Short answer: YES.

Cool, thanks. Currently doing my GoT rewatch, but I'll start to throw in some True Detective here and there.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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gomerschlep said:

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Oh yeah and Dorffs character is in on it

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No way.....but I do have a possible theory about Roland West.

I think he might be gay too.

I wish I had mentioned it the week before but enough theories about the case were being thrown out there (including mine) and I just sat on it as I don't believe it is pertinent to the case, but it is pertinent to the story of the Detectives. We just had the reveal that Tom was a closet gay. Consider the following:

• Roland was never married
• that chick was almost too hot for him - a beard if I ever saw one
• And she was a religious woman so sex would perhaps not be the basis of the relationship
• they showed ZERO affection ever, never even touch each other at dinner and don't look at each other really
• they had a breakup and got back together - but I think it ended because they were not intimate really
• after that discovery about Tom, Roland is super defensive about anything gay oriented that Hays mentions that's basically what they fight about in the car
• early on Roland was almost too over the top with sexual things he would say about women - a cover story
• remember the scene we saw where Roland offered Tom either the drunk tank or staying the night on his couch
• they had a very very close relationship as we know he helped him get sober somewhere between 1980-1990
• the way Roland lives in isolation now - a homosexual would be an outcast in a small arkansas town in 1990 if he was outed then
• remember how Wayne doesn't get why he is living out there alone he was so social
• now his friends are dogs instead of people

I think Roland got outed at some point and then ostracized in smalltown backwoods Arkansas circa 1990 - maybe by Hays - which could be the thing that Roland says about "does he even remember why I'm mad at him" - which he doesn't.

While Roland was always very accepting of Hays and came to his defense as a black man in that small town in that time when anything racial was directed toward him - what if Hays did not defend Roland as a gay man and even helped out him or ostracize him?

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It's a plausible theory for sure. But, IIRC... the way we found out that Tom was/maybe gay was when Roland discovered the "Homosexual Healing" flyer in Tom's nightstand in '90. Now, I don't think it was any secret that Roland was helping Tom get back on his feet between 1980 and 1990.... and if Roland was gay/bi.. I think he'd have probably stuck that flyer in his pocket instead of offering it up as evidence.

Shelton98 said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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gomerschlep said:

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Oh yeah and Dorffs character is in on it

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No way.....but I do have a possible theory about Roland West.

I think he might be gay too.

I wish I had mentioned it the week before but enough theories about the case were being thrown out there (including mine) and I just sat on it as I don't believe it is pertinent to the case, but it is pertinent to the story of the Detectives. We just had the reveal that Tom was a closet gay. Consider the following:

• Roland was never married
• that chick was almost too hot for him - a beard if I ever saw one
• And she was a religious woman so sex would perhaps not be the basis of the relationship
• they showed ZERO affection ever, never even touch each other at dinner and don't look at each other really
• they had a breakup and got back together - but I think it ended because they were not intimate really
• after that discovery about Tom, Roland is super defensive about anything gay oriented that Hays mentions that's basically what they fight about in the car
• early on Roland was almost too over the top with sexual things he would say about women - a cover story
• remember the scene we saw where Roland offered Tom either the drunk tank or staying the night on his couch
• they had a very very close relationship as we know he helped him get sober somewhere between 1980-1990
• the way Roland lives in isolation now - a homosexual would be an outcast in a small arkansas town in 1990 if he was outed then
• remember how Wayne doesn't get why he is living out there alone he was so social
• now his friends are dogs instead of people

I think Roland got outed at some point and then ostracized in smalltown backwoods Arkansas circa 1990 - maybe by Hays - which could be the thing that Roland says about "does he even remember why I'm mad at him" - which he doesn't.

While Roland was always very accepting of Hays and came to his defense as a black man in that small town in that time when anything racial was directed toward him - what if Hays did not defend Roland as a gay man and even helped out him or ostracize him?

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It's a plausible theory for sure. But, IIRC... the way we found out that Tom was/maybe gay was when Roland discovered the "Homosexual Healing" flyer in Tom's nightstand in '90. Now, I don't think it was any secret that Roland was helping Tom get back on his feet between 1980 and 1990.... and if Roland was gay/bi.. I think he'd have probably stuck that flyer in his pocket instead of offering it up as evidence.

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Actually.....that was not what happened first. His reaction to that was interesting I suppose in context though.

Prior to that they were talking to his former boss - that's when they both were told about him being seen by guys going into a "queer club". Said he was harassed after that and was on his way out of there sooner or later anyway before the things happened with the kids.

Roland did find the pamphlet and his reaction was interesting - he sorta just grimaced and clenched his jaw.

Can't really tell much from that - their discussion that followed was about being gay in general and whether he could have done something like that to the kids, about Devil's Den being a gay hangout, etc.....

the cat was already out of the bag - hiding that pamphlet would not have meant anything.

It's a decent point though - he was just highly defensive of the gay aspects after that.

And I'll readily admit - it could be completely wrong about Roland - but I do believe he is defensive about that for some reason.

Southlake said:

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Nice investigative thoughts on Roland being gay, but just as conspiracy theories go, we can always build excuses and innuendos into facts. I'm personall not buying it, however, if you're correct, you will get the unspoken of, "Texags Super Rust Cohle Detective Award"

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FIFY

When old hays asked old Roland if he was married, didn't old hays say he had never been married, or you know I'm not married or something like that? I seem to remember him saying he never got married to that girl.

Not that that really means anything one way or another, but would be a reasonable response to the question if the zombie's theory is correct.

mavsfan4ever said:

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When old hays asked old Roland if he was married, didn't old hays say he had never been married, or you know I'm not married or something like that? I seem to remember him saying he never got married to that girl.

Not that that really means anything one way or another, but would be a reasonable response to the question if the zombie's theory is correct.

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old Roland said he had never been married - see the first bullet point in my list

How is Harris connected to Tom and the cousin? How will Roland/hays know to suspect Harris?

I think I may be missing something with Harris. I wasn't paying very close attention when they spoke with him.

I can see the evidence to suggest Roland is gay, but I just really don't understand the payoff at this point. There's speculation that Hays and Roland's falling out has something to do with Roland's sexual identity but I just don't understand why that would matter at this point. With two episodes left, I'm not sure where they could go with that plot point.

I think the cousin may have given up Harris to Tom as the payor. Maybe he was the bag man for the Hoyts payoffs and management of Lucy. Maybe Tom knew enough, perhaps from Lucy's past, that Harris' involvement really meant Hoyt which is why he went there.

Obviously, hayes/west will never get close enough to tie it to Hoyt, at least not in 90. Or at least not enough to prove it when the AG is motivated to protect Hoyt. The cousin is going to get disappeared before they reach him again.

That said, I'm guessing Harris is sloppy enough to where they at least figure out he did Tom (maybe both having the gay results in some sort of lead after Tom disappears) . Then maybe they do the pedophile barn torture act on Harris to get info, but it gets ****ed up and he dies. They dont get the info they needed and just end up covering up what they did.