*** TRUE DETECTIVE (SEASON 3) ***

126,745 Views | 791 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by mhayden
Thunder18
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Both Dorff and Ali have been oustanding so far. I feel like Stephen Dorff was born to play this role
Max Power
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Episode 5 is up and it was great. That final sequence with Ali and Dorff as old men was so good. I was already impressed with Ali but Dorff so, so good.

The big thing that jumped out to me was the homeless kid said she called herself the princess of the pink rooms. I'm guessing that's a big clue. I don't remember seeing anything that jumps out so I think that's something to keep an eye out for.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Max Power said:

Episode 5 is up and it was great. That final sequence with Ali and Dorff as old men was so good. I was already impressed with Ali but Dorff so, so good.

The big thing that jumped out to me was the homeless kid said she called herself the princess of the pink rooms. I'm guessing that's a big clue. I don't remember seeing anything that jumps out so I think that's something to keep an eye out for.

The drawings in the girls room included some pink walled castles it looked like. I don't know if it is a clue though - except a clue that it is really her for the viewers i mean.

This was a superb episode - among the top 3 in the entire series (all 3 seasons).

I've got some theories now...but I gotta simmer on them a bit.....some huge revelations though:

PS - man Woodard really ****ed some **** up.

1. Lucy wrote the letter - suspected that before but pretty much confirmed now. And she was definitely involved - seemed to imply with the cop Harris
2. Harris himself - seems to be the one that planted the evidence against Woodard.
3. And he disappeared in 1990 so shortly after the events we just saw - revealed to Hays in the 2015 documentary filming. something he maybe blocked out or that's what he "knows" and isn't saying.
4. Hays and Roland talking about what they did - implication is they figured out about Harris, killed him and disposed of his body and now Hays either does not remember some of it blocked it out or knows but is keeping that buried still.
5. the girl on the tape - so this is where i'm not sure but could be faked, could be an imposter set up to do it, could be the real Julie and she is brainwashed ala Patty Hearst (this has occurred to me before).

But my theory is related to all of that and how it might fit together in a big picture....to be continued...

Shelton98
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Meh. This episode started great, but petered out pretty quickly. I just can't make myself give a damn about two 70 year old retired cops trying to solve a cold case about a kidnapped girl from 1980 who I don't care about either.

Season 1 just set the bar so high that they probably should have just stopped there.
Hickory High
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Shelton98 said:

Meh. This episode started great, but petered out pretty quickly. I just can't make myself give a damn about two 70 year old retired cops trying to solve a cold case about a kidnapped girl from 1980 who I don't care about either.

Season 1 just set the bar so high that they probably should have just stopped there.
To each their own, but....you're out of your damn mind. The twist in this episode was huge. And this season has been great television.
Greeze06
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Think it is pretty obvious what the girl was saying. Someone tell me how to post the spoiler black out.
PooDoo
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sp in brackets for spoilers

Just quote someone with spoilers if you need an example.

Greeze06
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I think Julie saw the person in the TV press conference that maybe abducted her and in this twisted world where she is a Princess of Pink Rooms or whatever, this person called himself her father. Probably the Attorney General, because he is in a position to make things go away. Remember she said she was excited to see her Aunt......well she has no Aunt. Dont think when she said father she meant Tom.

Also, she said she was looking for Will and that "WE left him resting".....who is WE? Agree with below too.


When they play the tape of Julie, she seems to be accusing her father. She talks about "seeing him on the television...the man who pretends to be my father." It can't be as obvious as it seems. It has to be some sort of misdirection. Wasn't it suggested that Purcell is not her real father? Maybe someone now with the police or DA (she saw him on TV) has somehow suggested to her that he is her biological father and used that as a way of ingratiating himself with the two kids.

Noblemen06
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I'm getting the impression they killed the mother's cousin that stayed with the family and supposedly was peeping on the little girl through the boy's closet.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Noblemen06 said:

I'm getting the impression they killed the mother's cousin that stayed with the family and supposedly was peeping on the little girl through the boy's closet.

could be but.... Harris disappearing in 1990 is a little too coincidental for me.

but Hays seemed surprised about finding the cousins body in the quarry in missouri and he also claimed ignorance about Harris disappearing. I can't imagine he would not have known about Harris - so is it his memory issues or is it trying to distance from it by feigning ignorance.

I think the hole was not a peeping hole - i think it was for Will to pass the little notes to his sister. Remember the little notes Hays found in her things in the later visit, he put them in his pocket. they could have easily been passed through that hole.


PooDoo
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You can't pass a note through a wall like that.

I think she's been brainwashed
Zombie Jon Snow
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PooDoo said:

You can't pass a note through a wall like that.

I think she's been brainwashed



what? roll up a little piece of paper and it slides right through a hole like that.

In fact they look like they've been rolled up. Although they were stored flat.

they say comforting things

I'm always here
Don't listen
I'll always keep you safe
It's okay
It's alright
Have a good night


Sazerac
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I'm not sure we are going to get closure on what really happened to the girl. Bad guys won't go down.

This is about Hayes and Roland and how it affected their lives.
Anagrammatic Nudist
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Definitely agree with the girl seeing someone else on the TV feed, and the misdirection of it being the dad.
Noblemen06
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Harris = guy who planted the backpack and thus why he disappeared, perhaps. What did the cop look like that found it?
Shelton98
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Hickory High said:

Shelton98 said:

Meh. This episode started great, but petered out pretty quickly. I just can't make myself give a damn about two 70 year old retired cops trying to solve a cold case about a kidnapped girl from 1980 who I don't care about either.

Season 1 just set the bar so high that they probably should have just stopped there.
To each their own, but....you're out of your damn mind. The twist in this episode was huge. And this season has been great television.
I apologize. I didn't realize ep 5 was already up until almost midnight last night..... I should have waited and watched it today. I did rewatch it today with the CC on.... and it is great story telling. Even though I'm not crazy about the overall story (i.e. what's done is done, thery're not going to save anybody... just bring some old evil dudes to justice in the end)...It is a great show and I still watch it religiously... even season 2.
Shelton98
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From what I gathered from that porch conversation.... Hays killed somebody related to the case and Roland was there when it happened.... and together they made the body disappear. Had to be either the cousin of the mom, or the Harris guy in the '90 investigation. The cousin's body was found in a quarry in Missouri... not sure when..... but there were records of him in Vegas in '86-'87.... and I don't think Hays and Roland were together then. The Harris guy was never found. From the porch conversation... whoever it was the mother "had ties to" and not family ties, but secret ties... and was somehow affiliated with Hoyt. Which leads me to believe it was Harris. From the same porch conversation, 1991 was the last time Hays and Raymond spoke.... so there must have been some big time fracture in their relationship then.
Stive
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Who is Hoyt? The AG?
Shelton98
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Stive said:

Who is Hoyt? The AG?
Hoyt is the company that owns and operates the poultry processing plant in town.
JD Shellnut
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Is Harris the white ghost from the previous episode? Kinda looks like him.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Shelton98 said:

Stive said:

Who is Hoyt? The AG?
Hoyt is the company that owns and operates the poultry processing plant in town.

Kindt is the AG in 1990. He was a local prosecutor in 1980.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Drifter. said:

Is Harris the white ghost from the previous episode? Kinda looks like him.
appears to be - with a bullet hole in the chest. Definitely an older version - grayed hair. these pics are him in 1980.....likely killed in/after 1990.



Shelton98
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When I re-watched ep 5 today.... I picked up on a very subtle little thing that happened that was obviously done for a reason.... but I can't really wrap my brain around it what it means....

when 2015 Hays was upstairs in his house and had a momentary lapse of memory of what year it was... he was looking/calling out his kids' names and heard their voices from the parents bedroom. So he slowly opens the door to see 1990 Amelia with Hays reading "The Jungle Book" book to the kids. No big deal.

But, 1990 Hays.... who is laying in the bed with wife and kids looks up briefly and sees the bedroom door opening slowly for no apparent reason... and there's nobody there.

I found that strange. I chalked it up to "time is a flat circle".... but still can't wrap my brain around it.


And I think "The Jungle Book" wasn't just a random bedtime story.
sburg2007
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sburg2007
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I give up on spoiler tags on my phone.
JD Shellnut
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While on the bed with kids and wife, he also see the reflection of 80's Hays in the window.
Rustys-Beef-o-Reeno
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Uggh was kinda disappointed we didn't get to see Amelia's god givens...

At any rate whoever planted the evidence is the killer / abductor, Have they found the kids backpack yet? I couldn't remember if it's in police custody already or if it was still missing
PooDoo
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

PooDoo said:

You can't pass a note through a wall like that.

I think she's been brainwashed



what? roll up a little piece of paper and it slides right through a hole like that.

In fact they look like they've been rolled up. Although they were stored flat.

they say comforting things

I'm always here
Don't listen
I'll always keep you safe
It's okay
It's alright
Have a good night





You think that wall was 1 piece of drywall?

There is usually a 3.75-4" gap in between the 2 pieces of drywall.

No way a kid is fishing those through the wall. And even if they could that theory makes no sense.
shhopkins
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The last scene with Hayes and Roland in 2015 was great tv.

I rarely see this anymore.
Max Power
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There's something I can't get past from the interaction between Lucy and Amelia. Quoting "children should laugh" from the ransom note was an easy catch but when Lucy said "I've got the soul of a *****" it's just off. That doesn't strike me as a statement anyone says about themselves. It just makes me feel like someone has been feeding that to her, putting her down, and she's bought in. Perhaps someone was grooming her for quite a while and she sold off her daughter.
Stive
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I definitely think Lucy was involved in some way. The comments, her suicide, employment at the chicken plant, etc.
Bunk Moreland
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So we can post without spoilers now right, since the episode aired? Edit - removing the sp tags.

Ok, here's my prediction that will be wrong but hopefully catch a few pieces of being right.

Kindt (local DA in timeline 1 and state AG in 2?) was involved with some sort of sex trafficking/pedo ring where they would lure young girls. Involved as in participated, or knew and helped protect powerful people who were involved like old man Hoyt.

Officer Harris is also involved or the small-time stooge who they get to do things to protect it like plant evidence at the Indian's home after the shoot-out to try and close the case up quickly(and one more coming up).

Case closed and nobody powerful goes down...until 1990 when it's re-opened. Remember Kindt basically told Roland & Hays not to investigate it too hard or go looking for new evidence...can't remember how he framed it but basically he put pressure and threatened their job status to not dig too deep.

Then Harris apparently goes missing during the 1990 investigation. Kindt had Harris go steal the evidence from the evidence locker and make sure no log book exists, then they tied up that loose end by making him disappear. Hays discovers the evidence is missing.

Lucy says she used to work at Hoyt before leaving because she could make more on tips as a bartender. My guess is she was seen as a mark because of her drug issues to be someone to target and sell her daughter into the sex ring. Hoyt likely used local scabs with issues to do his recruiting, like possibly Lucy's cousin & the black man with one good eye. I think that guy will have worked with Lucy and/or maybe frequented the bar she worked at after Hoyt with the cousin.

We find out the cousin was possibly grooming the kids in the home when he was staying there. The little notes were in fact the brother telling Julie it's going to be ok, etc. and Hays/Roland don't quite get the entire puzzle together but they get far enough to the cousin. Hays snaps when he admits to doing some ****ed up stuff and kills him. Roland helps him dispose of the body.

On the porch conversation as old men, Hays said Hoyt came by and visited him the day after they got 'back' presumably from ridding of the body. He mentioned Hoyt knew what they did. He also said he didn't tell Roland because he had a family to consider, etc. So he insinuates that Hoyt put more pressure on him to not go further. He's dead, but we dont' know if Kindt is still alive in the most recent old man timeline. I think the reveal will be first the man with the one eye leading to the ultimate killing / disposal of the cousin around the same time Harris is made to disappear by Hoyt/one-eye'd man/Kindt protection, and that discovery will be what exposes it all.

Or something close to that.
bobinator
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That's... hm... well that looks pretty good...

I'd be shocked if you aren't pretty close to the mark.
Zombie Jon Snow
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My own theory is somewhat similar although i do not really have cousin Dan as a suspect per se.... I think he gets involved sort of after the fact.

I can't really figure out 2015 timeline that much and don't trust almost anything from Hays perspective there - is he imagining it all, is he faking at times, is his memory solid, are we seeing what happened or what he thinks happened, is he sitting in a crazy home and staring into a snowglobe and imagining it all. who knows.


There are 5 main culprits and possibly a 6th here of the original crime of kidnapping Julie and the death (accidental I believe) of Will; and one complicit (knowingly or unknowingly) organization.


Lucy Purcell mother of Julie and Will
Unnamed Hoyt daughter (UHD) the woman briefly shown in photo that lost a child (Hoyt's granddaughter)
Unnamed Black man (UBM) likely worked for Hoyt, and later UHD or was involved with her in some way
Harris James cop who we now know covered up some stuff on 1980 investigation and planted the evidence that framed Woodard
Gerald Kindt prosecutor in 1980 and AG in 1990
Dan "cousin" might only be after the fact

The complicit organization is the foundation set up by the Hoyt's.

Theory:

UHD lost her child and is distraught for years. UBM worked at the plant for years, was injured sometime and ends up (maybe as a settlement) in the employ of UHD and the family/company take good care of him. She instructs UBM who she trusts implicitly for some reason to find her a replacement child rather than go through adoptions. UBM knows Lucy from the plant, knows she is in an unhappy home, knows she might want better for her kids and could be bought off possibly if she believed her daughter (who bears some resemblance to the missing child) would go to a much better home. Lucy knowing the child is not Tom's accepts this idea and arranges for the kids to meet the "aunt" in the field several times to get to know her and bribing will especially with new toys, games, etc.. UBM buys those dolls for example. Lucy figures Will stays with his dad and Julie gets a better life and she gets out of motherhood and all that she hates with some cash to live the life she wants. They are instructed not to tell their dad. In fact Lucy may convince Julie that UHD is really her mom and not herself and Tom. UHD and UBM are the two seen by the farmer in the area a few times in the "new" brown sedan. They go out there to meet the kids UBM stands watch and plans the abduction eventually. The peephole was where Will passed little notes rolled up to Julie he was very protective of her. Eventually they decide to take Julie once trust has been established but they want a plausible story for Will and while he is distracted playing the game she disappears. Will is distraught and looking for his sister although somewhat casually (asking Freddy if he has seen her) so it does not appear she was snatched violently. In his search though Will falls or is chased by Freddy and hits his head and dies. Lucy and UBM go back looking for Will and find him. Lucy is upset but they can't undo what they've done already so she and UBM place him in the peaceful repose in the cave. And I think Julie was shown he was ok and "resting" before she leaves for good. Later Lucy writes the note as a way (she thinks) of giving Tom some peace of mind about Julie.

Meanwhile the investigation begins and the Hoyt family being powerful in the area owns certain cops (Harris) and the prosecutor Kindt. And they use that to make the case fail in certain ways. Harris interviews the farmer and some neighbors but leaves key things out of reports. He also plants the evidence of the sweater and backpack after the fact at Woodard's house. Kindt may be a lover of UHD or they own him some way and he does his part to derail the investigation as well and close the book on Woodard quickly without argument. And the foundation (directed by Hoyt directly or through his daughter UHD) acts like it helps but their actions only lead to hundreds of false leads that distract from the truth. Perhaps the organization is in on it they may act to place at risk girls/women with wealthy families at the direction of the crazed UHD who thinks they are doing good for people.

Prior to 1990 Lucy hightailed it out of town to Vegas and cousin Dan showed up there too eventually they were probably lovers before or he just knew she had money. He may also know certain things but I doubt he was in on it except to stay quiet and they could be together. Or he is simply opportunistic. Lucy blows the money mostly in Vegas gambling and on drugs and she finally ODs. And he either knows or was told about it by Lucy before she dies. Dan tries to extort UHD for more money so he is killed by UBM cleaning up the mess again and dumped in a quarry in Missouri.

In 1990 Julie shows up in the pharmacy and with the fingerprints and this reopens everything of course. Somehow she escaped the family and has been living as a drifter for a while. She does not know her brother is dead or her mother Julie and fears returning to her "real" family that she thinks sold her out to this fake family. Her call and recording was talking about AG Kindt (might be lover of UHD) and him pretending to be her father. She wasn't talking about Tom actually. Kindt was standing right next to Tom in that video. And her mention of her "aunt" is referring to UHD or Lucy not sure which way they convinced her or brainwashed her. In looking into it again Hays and West discover the cover up by Harris. They track him down and kill him in an act of vigilante justice - this is the part they refer to when they say what "they did" in 1990. They may in fact kill UBM also. Hoyt knows what happened but not the details his concern was his daughter and he keeps her out of it they got some justice and it goes dormant again.





Bunk Moreland
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bobinator said:

That's... hm... well that looks pretty good...

I'd be shocked if you aren't pretty close to the mark.

I re-watched the porch scene with cc on like 4 times yesterday then went back to try and reference some of the stuff. Completely missed he said it was Hoyt who visited him until I turned captions on.

That and Kindt has looked shady from the start.
 
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