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*** Official MAN OF STEEL Reviews / Reactions / Discussion Thread ***

31,782 Views | 507 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by agracer
Keegan99
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Generic DARPA scientist is sort of emblematic. He's in the arctic. He's in the jail. He's on the Air Force jet for some reason.

He's inexplicably "just there" in a handful of scenes, not doing much of anything, (To the point where his repeated presence pulled me out of the film and I thought "WTF is that guy doing? Why is he appearing so often in this film? He has no purpose.") and it turns out his purpose was to give the Kryptonian ship a twist in the climactic sequence.

Really? His character existed for that? It's bad when you have to ask "Was that silly task tacked on to give that ridiculous character something? Or was that ridiculous character tacked on for that silly task?"
techno-ag
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^^ He offered a couple scientific explanations to things.
techno-ag
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quote:
Xenophobia/racism - We get this hammered into us time and again, to the point where Clark allows Pa to die rather than alert the world to his presence. We see it in Zod's dismissal of the human race. As many on here have noted, nothing really comes of this. The world doesn't freak out as much as it rightfully should, and resolution is lacking.


Maybe they didn't want to rehash the old X-men theme.
Keegan99
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Dropping a line or two of dialog isn't a purpose.

The only thing he DID in the film was the ship twist.
Keegan99
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Again, take some time and read the AICN review:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/62877
TCTTS
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You mean offering the definition of "terraforming" to the female soldier who's only purpose was to ask that question on behalf of all the children in the audience isn't doing something?

Seriously though, despite my previous comment, I try my best not to be condescending. And I appreciate you guys having my back. That's not to say I don't love arguing about movies, though, because I do. I love the back and forth, and I know I can maybe be a little too passionate from time to time, but I still respect other people's opinions. I saw the movie a second time solely out of respect for all the counter-arguments, trying my best to see the movie in a different light, but I just couldn't.

My dislike of the movie has nothing to do with false expectations or anything like. As clinical as this sounds, for me, it's just simple math. When it comes down to it, all movies are equations of build-ups and pay-offs both plot-wise and emotionally. Plot wise, for the most part, the equation worked. But the more important aspect - the emotional one - I just didn't think the equation added up. Two plus two equaled three. Now, some of you may really like three, and had a ton of fun watching three. And that's great. I don't fault you for that. But it ain't four. That's all I'm saying.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 6/18/2013 12:02p).]
3 William 56
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quote:
Read the AICN review again. Along with TCTTS, it lays out a very sound case for why this was a mediocre film.


quote:
Again, take some time and read the AICN review


What does an AICN review have to do with whether texags posters liked the film or not? That review is an opinion and they're entitled to it, just like we're entitled to ours...
AgMarauder04
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I don't understand why those who didn't like te movie are trying so hard to convince us who liked it that it'a a bad movie?

Is being "right" that important?
Gradin
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I respect everyone's opinions about the movie or any movie. For me, I enjoyed MoS. I recognize the issues with the movie, and I agree it is not the greatest film.

What I enjoyed the most is that we FINALLY got a decent Superman live action movie, in the sense where we actually get to see Superman go all out against another opponent. I am also of the opinion that some of the questions or issues raised will be addressed next movie, but of course that is not the best way to approach a movie the first time around.

[This message has been edited by Gradin (edited 6/18/2013 12:45p).]
ArchAg01
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For those who enjoyed the movie, the 50 best moments in Man of Steel:

http://www.totalfilm.com/features/man-of-steel-50-best-moments#!/features/man-of-steel-50-best-moments/sorry-sir-i-just-think-he-s-really-hot
Bruce Almighty
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AgMarauder04,

I don't think anyone is trying to change anybody's opinion of the movie. It's just a thread about discussing why we either liked or disliked the movie. This is one of the most dividing movies to come out in a long time.
Dr. Teeth
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quote:
I don't understand why those who didn't like te movie are trying so hard to convince us who liked it that it'a a bad movie?


And I don't understand why people take an opinion that is different from theirs so personally. I didn't like the movie. I think they ****ed up the basic story of Superman. IMHO, they needed to establish the Superman character as a hero, so that when Zod shows up, the entire world thinks "Thank God for Superman, he's the only one that can save us!" You know, a similar story to the one that's been told throughout the 75 YEARS worth of Superman source material.

You apparently liked it. Whatever. It'd be awesome if we could discuss it without you getting all pissy.

Some of you are acting like we called out your mom's performance in the sack or something.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Teeth (edited 6/18/2013 1:13p).]
TCTTS
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Upon a second viewing, I noticed some shots from the initial teaser trailer, along with at least one Smallville section, were cut from the movie itself...


My favorite shot from the teaser trailer. Would have loved this as establishing shot of the Kent Farm:




Looks like this is right after Clark stole the clothes from the house, and just before he sees the bus:






Clark in Smallville. Really curious as to what this scene might be. Flashback or part of Clark’s return to Smallville?





[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 6/18/2013 1:37p).]
TCTTS
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Also, when pulling those other screen shots, I was reminded of an issue I had with this quick sequence below. Who, exactly, is a young Clark pretending to be here? At this point in his life, he doesn’t even know he’s an alien yet. So what other potential comic book character could he be emulating, save for Superman, who wore a red cape and put his hands on his hips in exactly the same manner Superman did? It’s as if Clark’s pretending to be Superman before Superman even exists, which makes no sense.

The only explanation I could come up with is that this sequence is an impressionistic glimpse of Jonathan in his own, personal heaven/afterlife. In the movie, toward the very end, Clark tells Martha, in so many words, he wishes dad were alive to see what he’d become. Then Martha tells Clark that he can see, is watching, etc. right as we cut to this sequence, implying that Jonathan is watching his son - as he wants to remember him - being a hero. Kind of more abstract than literal. Point being, I don’t think this sequence actually ever happened in "real life." It’s Jonathan’s consciousness or spirit or whatever you want to call it envisioning it...





[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 6/18/2013 1:44p).]
LeFraud
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After reading this thread, I feel much better about not caring too much for TDK. I've stated it several times, for whatever reason, just didn't think it was some great masterpiece like most people believe it to be. I love BB, I like TDKR, just didn't like TDK.

I absolutely loved MOS, thought it was probably better than Batman Begins. To me all the flashbacks to his childhood made for a very emotional story, especially for a comic. That would be my argument for those saying he didn't earn the suit. I thought all the lessons from Pa, all the instances growing up and learning to deal with these powers, and most importantly watching his father die (even if you didn't like the scene) was Clark's way of "earning" the suit. Remember, he had all ready earned the suit as far as Jur-El was concerned, but Pa Kent helped groom him into superman. Bruce Wayne had to become the dark knight, Clark/Kal-El was born as the Man of Steel. Was it strange to just see the suit in the ship after all these years? Definitely...but what would you have rather seen, Ma Kent sewing together the suit out of old hand me downs?

Again, I can appreciate why people don't have the same excitement for MOS as me, because I feel the same way about some films (TDK). Maybe I just like superman more than batman, at any rate, its all personal preference.

I will take a shot and say had Crowe, Costner, etc died before the release of MOS, it would have helped...flame away.
Aggie_Journalist
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^ I just chalked that up to someone at some point creating some other caped comic hero in this world for Clark to emulate, but it's not good when you're having to rationalize things to yourself in the middle of a movie.
NFLFAN
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Regarding young Clark posing as a superhero:

Kryptonian culture is a cape culture. Snyder stated as much in an NPR interview. Just about everybody on Krypton wears a cape. It may be a real stretch, but this scene could be the result of Clark's natural predilection for capes (evident as a child and not as an adult when he would have known better than to wear a cape in a modern human society). The hand-on-the-hips stance is merely his posture for "taking a stand" against imaginary bad guys.
TCTTS
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Also just realized that the first screen shot of the sun over the farm was likely the first shot of the young-Clark-in-a-cape sequence, further lending credence to the Jonathan-afterlife theory. That shot just screams heaven.
TCTTS
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Sorry NFLFAN, was typing as you posted. Could be, but I really do think it's more of impressionistic afterlife thing. Will be interesting to see once the script is finally made available.
MW03
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quote:
Also, when pulling those other screen shots, I was reminded of an issue I had with this quick sequence below. Who, exactly, is a young Clark pretending to be here? At this point in his life, he doesn’t even know he’s an alien yet. So what other potential comic book character could he be emulating, save for Superman, who wore a red cape and put his hands on his hips in exactly the same manner Superman did? It’s as if Clark’s pretending to be Superman before Superman even exists, which makes no sense.

The only explanation I could come up with is that this sequence is an impressionistic glimpse of Jonathan in his own, personal heaven/afterlife. In the movie, toward the very end, Clark tells Martha, in so many words, he wishes dad were alive to see what he’d become. Then Martha tells Clark that he can see, is watching, etc. right as we cut to this sequence, implying that Jonathan is watching his son - as he wants to remember him - being a hero. Kind of more abstract than literal. Point being, I don’t think this sequence actually ever happened in "real life." It’s Jonathan’s consciousness or spirit or whatever you want to call it envisioning it...


That's so funny to me, because this sequence was one of my absolute favorites of the movie. Rather than Clark emulating the Superman pose, I took it as that is where Superman's pose came from, it's how Clark used to pretend to be a superhero as a boy before he realized that he was a superhero.

----

Regarding the AICN review, I read it over lunch again. On the same site, I also ran into this review that says:

quote:
Father Geek says MAN OF STEEL is pretty much the best Superhero Movie ever made and I'm not gonna argue!


Including these quotes:

quote:
One of the great things about this film is the way we’re given glimpses of things. Everytime Clark sees something that triggers a memory, we get that story – when Jor-El tells a story, we’ll get it. I hope this continues through the series. Superman is the sum of his whole life – his Kryptonian backstory and tech, his upbringing in Kansas and his current affairs.


quote:
Goyer, Nolan and Snyder have conspired to completely redefine SUPERMAN. This is not DONNER-verse… here they change fundamental aspects of the story. Like at what point Lois and Clark meet – and the changes they’ve made strengthen Lois and make her less of a ditz… but a vital part of the Superman story from the outset.



I ****ing love this. Getting rid of the seemingly blind aspects of Lois’ character only make her a stronger character. If she’s a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter, she better be able to follow leads. I love how they come together. Clark has been fairly lonely in his life – having someone discover & respect you – it’s a powerful intoxicant. For Lois, I absolutely see the appeal too. Not only is this the biggest story ever, but it changes everything. Essentially the first date becomes an Earth-rattling catastrophe that only Superman could cease. This is the sort of SUPERMAN scale that we love. BUT – it has a weight – a tremendous weight that is not brought to bare upon our hero yet. But I’m sure will make some industrialist to pull out his hair waiting on the insurance from the disaster relief.


quote:
Sure, the entire reason that the Earth is being threatened is because he is here! The death and destruction caused by this encounter is truly staggering. But then… this isn’t the Superman at the masterful level of his powers. He hasn’t really had that all powerful Daddy talk that imparted all knowledge of everything everywhere. I’m pretty sure he hasn’t had the space-time powers that he has manifested in other adaptations of the character, and that's fine. Actions have consequences. This is a BRAWL with astonishing collateral damage. And ZOD isn’t insane.



Have I gotten into that yet? Yeah. Superman essentially has committed Kryptonian Genocide. He’s the last Kryptonian as far as he knows – and that’s what he has to do to earn the trust of a modern America. Jesus. Is that what we expect of our Allies these days? Probably so.



Some folks expect SUPERMAN to instantly be the character he is in the comics today. But folks – this is the first outing of SUPERMAN and it isn’t to pick up a jewelry thief or rescue a cat out of a tree. This is Zod, and it isn’t Terrence Stamp – it’s Michael Shannon – and this Zod was genetically created to be the military leader and protector of the people of Krypton. He doesn’t show up with two thugs, he shows up with PLANET BUILDING MACHINES OF AWESOME DESTRUCTIVE LIFE ENDING AND BEGINNING TECH! Pure Horror show, but to ZOD – he’s going to erase the end of his people – on a new Utopia where they would all be Gods. Imagine the society he was going to create. And this ****ing brat with his interspecies crushes… **** SUPERMAN!!!!
NFLFAN
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Maybe they didn't want to rehash the old X-men theme.


Then don't make it an integral part of the film with no true cathartic moment, no payoff. It's quickly dismissed in exchange for some buildings exploding.
redline248
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quote:
I don't think anyone is trying to change anybody's opinion of the movie


Here is a quote from Keegan:

quote:
Read the AICN review again. Along with TCTTS, it lays out a very sound case for why this was a mediocre film.


That is someone trying to convince everyone on this thread that the movie was mediocre.

Also, there is this:

quote:
Just mild surprise that rather than recognize and think on the very legitimate criticism, many will knee-jerk and conjure up excuses for poor storytelling


How dare anyone not care about your supposed "legitimate criticisms." It truly is shocking that everyone doesn't agree with opinions on the internet. Some of us legitimately don't care what others' criticisms are.
65532ag
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I thought it was great and exactly what I expected. I couldn't have enjoyed it more

The kind of people who couldn't sit back and enjoy MOS are like women who look for things to beetch about instead enjoying something perfectly fine right infront of their face.

Anybody who didnt enjoy this movie doesnt deserve to watch movies amd needs to find a different hobby.
MW03
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it's been fun to discuss, for sure.
FL_Ag1998
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TCTTS, I know that movies are your "field", but do you ever wonder if you're simply over-analyzing a movie? Honest question, not a jab. For example the cape issue you brought up - I thought about it for all of 3 seconds while watching that scene and then dismissed it as he was just being the average young boy and pretending to be a superhero, then I went on enjoying that scene immensely (unless this MoS world is not supposed to have any notion comic book heroes in it, but I didn't get that notion).
FL_Ag1998
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quote:
it's been fun to discuss, for sure.


Agree, and that's why I come here.
Dr. Teeth
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quote:
The kind of people who couldn't sit back and enjoy MOS are like women who look for things to beetch about instead enjoying something perfectly fine right infront of their face.


Class.

So you'd be cool with a new Batman movie where Bruce Wayne becomes Batman after he gets bitten by a radioactive bat? Because to me, that's essentially what this movie was like.
techno-ag
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How bout a really dark Superman where he has to become worse than the villains he fights. He says in a gravelly voice, "I'm Superman."

Call it TDKR, The Dark Kryptonian Returns.
MW03
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Teeth, what do you mean? Did you not care for the flashbacks where young clark was learning to control his anger and not fight back and balancing that against his inner desire to help and save people?

PS, love you with the electric mayhem.
big-ag
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quote:
The kind of people who couldn't sit back and enjoy MOS are like women who look for things to beetch about instead enjoying something perfectly fine right infront of their face.

Anybody who didnt enjoy this movie doesnt deserve to watch movies amd needs to find a different hobby.


Dang, guess I can't go to the movies any more. Care to suggest a new hobby for me?
TCTTS
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quote:
TCTTS, I know that movies are your "field", but do you ever wonder if you're simply over-analyzing a movie? Honest question, not a jab. For example the cape issue you brought up - I thought about it for all of 3 seconds while watching that scene and then dismissed it as he was just being the average young boy and pretending to be a superhero, then I went on enjoying that scene immensely (unless this MoS world is not supposed to have any notion comic book heroes in it, but I didn't get that notion).


There's a reason I never brought up the kid-with-the-cape issue in my initial takes. It was completely inconsequential, enough so that I didn't even remember it until I opened up the trailer to get those screen grabs. I just pointed it out now because it's a small example of the bigger problems in the movie. It's supposed to be an emotional beat at the end of the film, and it is emotional, but the implausibility of it took me right out of the moment. I couldn't help that. I wasn't looking for issues while watching that flashback (or whatever it was). I literally thought, after about three seconds of watching that scene - what were the chances of that kid, who has no idea he's an alien superhero, pretending to be a superhero with a red cape, ACTUALLY ending up being a superhero who wears a red cape? It's just kind of ridiculous and lazy. You can argue destiny or that his Kryptonian, cape-wearing heritage is in his DNA, etc. And those are legitimate, plausible explanations. But my whole point is that things like that shouldn't require explanations. Like Aggie_Journalist said, "it's not good when you're having to rationalize things to yourself in the middle of a movie." And I found myself having to do that constantly in this movie.

I don't sit down in the theater and immediately start looking for problems. I'm not actively wanting there to be issues. But what I do all day, every day, is analyze story structure, one way or another. I'm constantly watching movies, reading scripts and reading screenwriting books/articles as "homework" - as practice - for my own writing. That stuff is engrained in me, and so when I see something in a movie that I consider "wrong," or doesn't resonate, I can't help it. It's like a switch goes off without me even thinking about it. And when those issues do register, I don't complain about them just to b*tch. As maybe overly-noble as this sounds, I'm trying to make movies better. I'm trying to figure out why something doesn't resonate so I can then learn from it and, someday, not make the same mistakes. And it bugs me when people gripe that I'm just supposed to "enjoy it" and not overanalyze. To me, complaining about this stuff is no different than complaining about an NBA player not making his free throws. These guys are getting paid millions of dollars and they're not even getting the fundamentals right. When a player misses a free throw, I'm not griping about the game itself. I'm griping about his individual performance, his lack of preparation. Same goes for these filmmakers. Not getting some of this stuff right is like not hitting free throws. And I'm going to gripe when they miss. What if, while watching a game with friends, every time you griped about a dropped pass or fumbled ball, someone yelled "Just enjoy the game!" For me, that's what it feels like when someone says that about a movie. I can't just enjoy the movie when "my team" is fumbling plot points. I'm rooting for a win, and when that doesn't happen, I'm going to try and figure out what they could have done better. And without trying to sound arrogant or "right," sometimes that involves analyzing some formation or scheme that maybe I know a little bit more about than others.

Ultimately, it's sh*t like this that drives me insane...

quote:
The kind of people who couldn't sit back and enjoy MOS are like women who look for things to beetch about instead enjoying something perfectly fine right infront of their face.

Anybody who didnt enjoy this movie doesnt deserve to watch movies amd needs to find a different hobby.


Next time A&M loses, and you b*tch about that loss, I hope someone compares you to a woman looking for things to b*tch about because you just couldn't "enjoy" a perfectly entertaining game. It's no different for me and movies.

[This message has been edited by TCTTS (edited 6/18/2013 4:22p).]
Bruce Almighty
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quote:
I thought it was great and exactly what I expected. I couldn't have enjoyed it more

The kind of people who couldn't sit back and enjoy MOS are like women who look for things to beetch about instead enjoying something perfectly fine right infront of their face.

Anybody who didnt enjoy this movie doesnt deserve to watch movies amd needs to find a different hobby.


People who get their panties all twisted when others don't like the same movies they like are truly pathetic.
Madmarttigan
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This seems to be a very polarizing film for people. A lot of people love it and hate it lol. Very strange to see all of the opinions on this movie.
Dr. Teeth
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quote:
Did you not care for the flashbacks where young clark was learning to control his anger and not fight back and balancing that against his inner desire to help and save people?


No, I did.

This is my understanding of the Superman story that has been around since 1938:

Alien baby sent to Earth because Krypton was imploding. They got this right. Like I said, Krypton looked nothing like how I've ever imagined it or seen it pictured, but I liked it.

Kal-El raised by good-natured Kansan farmers. They missed big time on this. The "I don't know... maybe..." scene damn near made me walk out. Pa Kent was a dick.

As a kid, Kal-El discovers his powers and learns to control them. They hit a home run here, the schoolhouse scene was impressive.

Young man combines Kryptonian powers and humanity from his Kansas upbringing to ultimately become a visible hero and protector of Earth. This is where they totally screwed the pooch. No one knew who the hell he was when the SHTF.

After this is established, they can tell whatever story they want. Zod, Luthor, whatever. But Superman is known to be the hero and mankind knows they can trust him.

Now compare this to the Batman story as told in BB and TDK:

Young boy suffers the tragic loss of his parents. As he comes of age, he retreats from the world and tries to disappear. A major threat to his home emerges, so he returns to take on that threat, but remains in the shadows. Evil bad guy demands that he reveal himself or he will destroy the hero's home. The people don't trust him, and demand that he turn himself in. As the final conflict comes, the authorities don't know whether this guy is on their side or not, until the end.

Now, you tell me: Which story does Man of Steel most resemble?

[This message has been edited by Dr. Teeth (edited 6/18/2013 4:25p).]
Dr. Teeth
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