quote:

---

Did some actions of Stahl's lead to Donna's death?

---

Did you not watch season 2? Stahl set it up as if she was a rat so Clay had Tig kill her.

One of the best scenes of the show has Opie confront her near her car.


Oops, Ag_07 remembered it better, now I remember, Opie and Donna changed cars, which is why Donna was killed, not Opie.

[This message has been edited by ORAggieFan (edited 12/1/2010 1:49p).]

Yes. Stahl put the entire Donna killing in motion with setting Opie up as a rat. The victim was meant to be Opie.

Man I am still in shock over last nights episode. AWESOME. Seeing Stahl Crying and begging for her life was greatness. Mack 10 the dome is a mess. Also the way Jimmy O got taken out was pretty gruesome. What a bummer we have to wait so long for next episode.

quote:

---

And Opie should always wear his hat. He look like much more of a badass with the big puffy stocking cap, than just his long sh**** hair.

---

I actually think he looks a bit scarier without the hat...there's something a bit more tender to him with the hat...without, he just looks like a badass dude you wouldn't want to mess with. he almost looked like a ringer for Kevin Nash.

quote:

---

Did you not watch season 2? Stahl set it up as if she was a rat so Clay had Tig kill her.

---

season 1 was when that all happened. season 2 dealt with the consequences of killing donna.

quote:

---

season 1 was when that all happened. season 2 dealt with the consequences of killing donna.

---

Thanks, I watched the first two seasons in like 4 days, so sometimes I forget.

Opie with the full mane is pretty awesome. He actually looks like a sick biker and not a hood-rat, imo.

Thanks for reminding me. Yes, I watched Season 1 & 2, but its been a year and and forgotten that. In fact I had forgotten that it was Tig that killed Donna.

I like the fact that they didn't leave a ton of overly dramatic cliffhangers for Season 4. Yes there are still issues that need to be resolved or lead to storylines for Season 4, but the slate is relatively clean. I'd imagine that for the next season it will be towards the end of their prison sentence. A show about a biker gang loses a lot when the majority of the major characters are just bouncing between their cell and the rec yard.

yeah, i think this will have a similar effect to the way season 3 ended for mad men (no spoilers for those who haven't watched it yet). they were able to effectively change the environment and allow the characters to interact in a different way with each other and with their present situation. I imagine this will allow for a nice reset of the series and go in a different direction, with new problems to solve and different relationship dynamics to manage.

awesome season finale...incredibly awesome.

and to those who think opie looks like a badass without the hat, we seriously laugh every time it shows him on the screen without one. he looks like a gay wrestler with his long hair parted down the middle like that. i was almost in tears laughing at him as he was proposing to his **** gf on the roof last episode. completely took away from the moment.

quote:

---

Ag_07
posted 1:46p, 12/01/10



Yes. Stahl put the entire Donna killing in motion with setting Opie up as a rat. The victim was meant to be Opie.

---

Then they knew that Opie wasn't the rat when he saved Tig's ass in that warehouse shootout from what I remember. That's when they figured out that Stahl was a dirty b-tch.

I agree with everyone else, that was a f'ing badass season finale.

hot damn. maybe the best finale to any season ever.

why did Jax say that his dad turned on his club in the letter to his mom?

I thought it was a great season, and an awesome finale. I liked the trip to Ireland, because it tied back into their origins with Jon, and also showed their supply source, and what was truly at stake with the Irish and Russians with the trading back home.


I had a feeling they might all be in on it, when they dumped the van, and zoomed through the ATF road blockade. Otherwise, wouldn't they be all wonder why the heck they were able to cruise through, and why they were leaving their van there? But I forgot about that, when Jax was busted by the club. The way they set it up made me believe hook line and sinker that he'd become a 'rat' and they'd found out.


One thing that this show does, that I like....is create situations that you think are impossible for the characters to get out of, and they do a good job of resolving them without being cheesy.

that was badass when they got the signal that Stahl's hit had been pulled off and for a couple seconds, they quit the act and all shared a laugh.

such an awesome episode...i may have to rewatch tonight.

quote:

---

One thing that this show does, that I like....is create situations that you think are impossible for the characters to get out of, and they do a good job of resolving them without being cheesy.

---

I agree with this completely. Other than the situation Stahl got herself into with having to kill her partner to cover her a$$. I'm glad they killed her off, other wise the story line may have become chessy.

quote:

---

I had a feeling they might all be in on it, when they dumped the van, and zoomed through the ATF road blockade.

---

You must have missed the part then where Stahl told Jax that she would leave them all alone and act like she was going for the Russians. They even had that piece covered. That's why she let them through. She said she just wanted the van and the money from the Russians, hinting that she would leave Jax alone so that he "wouldn't be busted".

quote:

---

You must have missed the part then where Stahl told Jax that she would leave them all alone and act like she was going for the Russians. They even had that piece covered. That's why she let them through. She said she just wanted the van and the money from the Russians, hinting that she would leave Jax alone so that he "wouldn't be busted".

---

Yeah, but there is no way Juice just drops the van and jumps on a bike w/o thinking anything of it if they don't know about it.

I thought this part was sketchy too. They change cars and put irish in the trunk and then they are waiting on the russians to chase them... they wait till they are in sight then take off. Stop at the road block and then she waves them threw and they go threw. Just seemed like they kinda knew what was up.

quote:

---

Just seemed like they kinda knew what was up.

---

Well, they did.

The important part was for Stahl to not know they knew. I suppose I can buy she was too excited about Jimmy O to pay too much attention to their reaction.

I get what you're saying. And now that I think about it you're right.

Does anyone remember back when Jax met with Stahl in the chapel of the hospital? I seem to remember Clay coming in right after but can't remember for sure or what was said. Trying to think if the club was in on it then or not based on that scene. I'm leaning towards they were, simply because I don't think Clay hears Gemma's BS statement w/o knowing something is going on.

quote:

---

You must have missed the part then where Stahl told Jax that she would leave them all alone and act like she was going for the Russians. They even had that piece covered. That's why she let them through. She said she just wanted the van and the money from the Russians, hinting that she would leave Jax alone so that he "wouldn't be busted".

---

You're missing my point though....

Assuming they 'knew' what was up, because Jax told them what Stahl said.....dont you think they'd want to know, or need to know, why the ATF was telling Jax that they could just go through without a problem?

Also, I think coming up with 250k for the drop would have raised a couple questions as well.

So while they covered it by having Stahl tell Jax that they coudl go through, it doesnt cover why the club didnt question it. Getting a free pass from the feds, and coming up with 250k on the spot, was a huge deal.

So because of that, I started to wonder if they were all in on it....

quote:

---

I'm leaning towards they were, simply because I don't think Clay hears Gemma's BS statement w/o knowing something is going on.

---

Yup, I tend to agree.

When Gemma was freaking out and talking nonsense about not treating him like Jon.....Clay is all, 'ok honey', without questioning what the heck she knows.

NM, we're on the same page.

[This message has been edited by ORAggieFan (edited 12/2/2010 2:22p).]

quote:

---

You're missing my point though....

---

I conceided the point 2 posts above this. I said now that I think about it, you're right. That was a tell as to what was actually going on.

Concede it again!!

I was talking to AgGrad, not Stive, but before my post he made his 2nd post, so I said nevermind.

Anyone know the symbol Chibs made in blood? IRA?

A Jameson Juicebox

It was the same symbol that they put on Cameron's head when they left him on the dock. I originally assumed that was meant to be a Protestant symbol to throw people off their tail (Cameron's mark that was) and so it wouldn't look like they were killing one of their own.

After reading online just now, it looks like it might be an IRA symbol instead. Of course, what do internet idiots know?

^
Has to have been, because that pinned the hit on them and not SAMCRO. Also believeable because they wanted Jimmy out.

quote:

---

Also believeable because they wanted Jimmy out.

---

Not to mention a file with high ups implicated. Then they get Unser to back that story.

I know it was one of the two sides of the Irish "Troubles", Real IRA just doesn't make as much sense to me given that it was the same sign that they put on Cameron.

But I'm not too worried about it.

I thought this was interesting reading wikipedia. I guess I missed the fact that the guy with the speakerbox that Otto met with in prison, Lenny the Pimp, was First 9. I wonder why the club had to go through Otto to meet with him, rather than just meet with him directly? And pass messages back and forth between attorneys? From watching the show I just thought he was some mobbed up guy that had some sort of relationship with the Russians.

Could be something as simple as him not having visitation rights.

Yeah, they may have just not been able to get to him and Otto could.

Lenny the Pimp was played by the founder of the Oakland Charter of the Hell's Angels.

quote:

---

Lenny the Pimp was played by the founder of the Oakland Charter of the Hell's Angels

---

That's pretty interesting. Have they done that with any other cameo's during this series? Besides the Stephen King one of course.