Best thread on this board in months.

Aston94 said:

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Darn, I missed his comment before edit!

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I said 18 year old's aren't in the crosshairs of covid at all. And that 12 second walk to the table with a mask on before everyone in the restaurant removes it for an hour makes no difference to the hostess anyways.

But again, clearly missed the sarcasm originally.

Gordo14 said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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JBenn06 said:

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Are the masks gone?

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No masks, 100% open effective next Wed.

Seems a bit early IMO.

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6 months too late

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1 month too early

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You can wear one for the rest of your life if you wish. That's the beauty of it.

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Yeah because 1 month is equivalent to the rest of his life. Classic false equivalency.

This is 1 month too early because the vaccine js not widely available yet. Things will be ok, but this was a brash decision likely motivated by the ercot headlines, and I feel sorry for service workers being thrown into this environment. I think a lot of businesses will keep mask mandates for the next month or two, but I'm sure they'll get a ton of "it's my right" badasses who act like selfish ******bags.

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You mean like me when I tell them to shove their mask up their ass and then take my business to the competition? Is that the selfish badass you are talking about?

I tip well, but they'll never get to know that.

Gordo14 said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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JBenn06 said:

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Are the masks gone?

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No masks, 100% open effective next Wed.

Seems a bit early IMO.

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6 months too late

---

1 month too early

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You can wear one for the rest of your life if you wish. That's the beauty of it.

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Yeah because 1 month is equivalent to the rest of his life. Classic false equivalency.

This is 1 month too early because the vaccine js not widely available yet. Things will be ok, but this was a brash decision likely motivated by the ercot headlines, and I feel sorry for service workers being thrown into this environment. I think a lot of businesses will keep mask mandates for the next month or two, but I'm sure they'll get a ton of "it's my right" badasses who act like selfish ******bags.

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What are you basing this on?

Gordo14 said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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JBenn06 said:

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Are the masks gone?

---

No masks, 100% open effective next Wed.

Seems a bit early IMO.

---

6 months too late

---

1 month too early

---

You can wear one for the rest of your life if you wish. That's the beauty of it.

---

Yeah because 1 month is equivalent to the rest of his life. Classic false equivalency.

This is 1 month too early because the vaccine js not widely available yet. Things will be ok, but this was a brash decision likely motivated by the ercot headlines, and I feel sorry for service workers being thrown into this environment. I think a lot of businesses will keep mask mandates for the next month or two, but I'm sure they'll get a ton of "it's my right" badasses who act like selfish ******bags.

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Your claim is completely baseless.

One thing that's always made me giggle is how people claim every bad thing that abbot did was somehow the libs fault. When he has a super majority in his congress and a state constitution that basically puts ultimate authority with him and then game wardens right after that. The guy owns the restrictions. They were his from the onset, and will stay with him better or worse. He waits one more month and pulls it he maybe won over some soccer moms with a double muffin top. Doing it now is both a month late and a month early at the same time.

Are Face Masks Effective. The Evidence

Somebody has an ercot thing they want you to forget about.

Gordo14 said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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JBenn06 said:

---

Are the masks gone?

---

No masks, 100% open effective next Wed.

Seems a bit early IMO.

---

6 months too late

---

1 month too early

---

You can wear one for the rest of your life if you wish. That's the beauty of it.

---

Yeah because 1 month is equivalent to the rest of his life. Classic false equivalency.

This is 1 month too early because the vaccine js not widely available yet. Things will be ok, but this was a brash decision likely motivated by the ercot headlines, and I feel sorry for service workers being thrown into this environment. I think a lot of businesses will keep mask mandates for the next month or two, but I'm sure they'll get a ton of "it's my right" badasses who act like selfish ******bags.

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There's absolutely no one being "selfish". This line of reasoning has grown tiresome and is simply not true.

There is no science behind masking. See link above.

Gordo14 said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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beerad12man said:

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AgsMyDude said:

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JBenn06 said:

---

Are the masks gone?

---

No masks, 100% open effective next Wed.

Seems a bit early IMO.

---

6 months too late

---

1 month too early

---

You can wear one for the rest of your life if you wish. That's the beauty of it.

---

Yeah because 1 month is equivalent to the rest of his life. Classic false equivalency.

This is 1 month too early because the vaccine js not widely available yet. Things will be ok, but this was a brash decision likely motivated by the ercot headlines, and I feel sorry for service workers being thrown into this environment. I think a lot of businesses will keep mask mandates for the next month or two, but I'm sure they'll get a ton of "it's my right" badasses who act like selfish ******bags.

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Looks like someone else received the Democratic talking points.

Aston94 said:

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This, I agree with. Really just puts some 18 year old kid working as a greeter at Chili's in the cross hairs.

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My daughter bagging groceries at HEB doesn't need more people breathing on her. But I'm just one of those lunatics who still thinks common courtesy should still be a thing.

I would love it if masks were effective. It would be a blessing if something so simple could combat the virus.

Unfortunately, empirical observations of mask mandates and high mask compliance indicate that masking is not effective.

3rd Generation Ag said:

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I was finally going to go to the grocery store for the first time in a year. Now not so sure. Will have to see if others grant me social distance and at least the store people continue to mask. I have had both shots, but they are only 95 percent effective. I am high risk.

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I've read your posts on CenTex and appreciate your take and want to be a bit more sensitive than others.

I am completely against any masks orders but the amount of COVID transmissions in transactional settings like a grocery store have been decimally low. If you've ever been in any contact tracing conversations there is always questions about masks and time around an infected person. If that time is less than a few minutes, most people get moved into the clear.

Since you've had vaccinations on top of that, I'd wager that your safety grocery shopping is better than having people over for dinner.

Again, I'm anti-mask and anti-lockdown but I know there are still those we need to protect. I'd proceed with caution but I think a faster moving location like HEB with an N95 mask would be a safe environment. I am not a doctor.

Also, if there's a single thing I like about all the covid measures and hope people stick to, it's social distancing. I don't think I ever realized how much people crowding me in line annoyed me until it became a thing.

Gordo14 said:

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, but I'm sure they'll get a ton of "it's my right" badasses who act like selfish ******bags.

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Aren't people who demand healthy others wear to a mask for their own benefit kinda selfish ******bags as well?

I've never had a problem wearing them, despite the annoyance, and will not give grief to any business that requires them, but an individual asking healthy me to be uncomfortable and wear a mask for their benefit is pretty selfish right?

Again, I'll continue to wear masks where asked without complaint, but let's be honest about asking others to be inconvenienced over the course of a year. Both parties are selfish.

Once again. read. Think. They don't do anything. At all.

If I sneeze or cough into a tissue, I'm throwing the tissue away, I'm not strapping it to my face and blowing through it.

I already have to place myself at risk by teaching every day. I am lucky that at 72 I was able to get the vaccine first dose in January, secon in February. But schools even with the supposed extra cleaning are dirty places. And even with the mask mandate, cover your nose has been the most frequent teacher comment all year. I live in an over 55 apartment community and we have had several deaths from covid among my friends. First I don't want to be the Angel of Death and bring anything back here and second I was never lucky when it came to things that were 95 percent. I have zero luck and never have had any. So I take precautions. Other than school, and seeing my kids right after Thanksgiving and Christmas, I have stayed in. Ordered from Amazon or Curbside at Kroger/Walmart. I want to still be here when we get to the other side of this, and I think in a couple of months more, things will be safer as more get the shots. In my department of 30 teachers, only four of us have been able to get the shot so far. Me due to age, and three due to very high risk health issues. Even with many kdis opting for virtual, we have new student cases regularly, almost daily. And that is with masks and social distancing desks.

I never ate out in the first place. I would have already shopped, but the Ice storm hit the weekend that was two weeks, and last weekend I thought shelves would be too empty still to be worth any risk. Will try to get to the grocery this weekend before a total lifting officially hits, then sit things out probably until summer.

Keegan99 said:

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I would love it if masks were effective. It would be a blessing if something so simple could combat the virus.

Unfortunately, empirical observations of mask mandates and high mask compliance indicate that masking is not effective.

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Those are two separate questions.

Are masks effective? Yes, of course. That's why doctors and nurses wear them in hospitals around coronavirus positive patients. The science is unquestionable - it's a virus transmitted through respiratory droplets and aerosols. Of course blocking those outgoing/incoming will reduce transmission risk.

Now, what does effective mean?

• Protecting the wearer or other people?
• To what degree of effectiveness are we talking about?
• What kind of mask are we talking about? N95? Surgical? Cloth mask?

I could delve into those questions, but I think we all know the answers if we are being intellectually honest. You aren't arguing for every US citizen to be issued and properly fitted for N95 masks and that people should wear them any time they are indoors in close contact with people outside their household. You're arguing for less government intervention into your every day life, which is consistent with your world view and I understand.

The second part of your statement is whether mask mandates work. Well, that is a different question entirely, and especially depends on:

• How much mask adoption there is for people in all interactions outside their immediate household
• How high quality of masks are people using and how well they are being used

The part that makes me sad is how people can't seem to separate the two questions. We shouldn't have to have mask mandates -- if people just wore them because they worked. If the complaint was about cloth masks, well then we should be trying harder to get higher quality masks.

I understand that the core of this issue has nothing to do with the science of whether masks actually work, it's about individual liberties and trade offs more than anything. But let's not let our motivation of the latter affect our critical thinking of the former.

By the way, my grandma who was hospitalized for a month with COVID got it from a 30 year old who came to visit her and my aunt for 3 hours indoors when my aunt was sick (not COVID). My aunt wore a mask the whole time, didn't get sick. My grandma and this 30 year old didn't wear masks, my grandma nearly died. So, I care less about whether you can wear a mask in Kroger, to be honest. I care that people like that 30 year old are smart and thoughtful enough to wear a mask around my 80 year old grandma when indoors for several hours. That's why this whole mask mandate thing is a strawman argument. If people did the right and courteous thing, no government intervention would be needed.

cecil77 said:

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Are Face Masks Effective. The Evidence

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There were dozens published before covid that showed the same, some by the CDC.

It's not the governments job to make people courteous.

Cassius said:

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cecil77 said:

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Are Face Masks Effective. The Evidence

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There were dozens published before covid that showed the same, some by the CDC.

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Yup. It all changed mid April. People needed to think there was something they could do, other than isolation. Government needed to assert it could control a phenomenon.

Both are specious.

The effectiveness of cloth masking was invented out of whole cloth (see what I did there) as a pablum for the masses. Indeed the most disturbing thing about this has been how easily people accept nonsense.

"Animal Farm", presaged it. The transition from "four legs good, two legs bad" to "four legs good, two legs better" is precisely how the masking argument went.

I literally said that government mask mandates aren't needed.

My point is that people who are upset with mask mandates have rushed to find any evidence which shows masks don't work, and is flawed motivated reasoning. If people broadly could accept that high quality masks properly worn are effective, then a government mask mandate wouldn't be needed. People would just do it when it made sense to do it, and wouldn't do it when it didn't make sense.

There are a whole bunch of highly intelligent college educated people on here saying masks don't work. Someone better tell the doctors and nurses who work with covid patients daily that they don't need to bother.

N95 masks work.

The masks worn by the masses do not.

And it would be far more effective if "experts" qualified their statements and expressed the appropriate amount of skepticism. When they attempt to gaslight the public with false claims, they do a tremendous disservice to themselves and science as a whole.

HotardAg07 said:

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I literally said that government mask mandates aren't needed.

My point is that people who are upset with mask mandates have rushed to find any evidence which shows masks don't work, and is flawed motivated reasoning. If people broadly could accept that high quality masks properly worn are effective, then a government mask mandate wouldn't be needed. People would just do it when it made sense to do it, and wouldn't do it when it didn't make sense.

There are a whole bunch of highly intelligent college educated people on here saying masks don't work. Someone better tell the doctors and nurses who work with covid patients daily that they don't need to bother.

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if I can smell your cologne or other thru my mask it isn't working. Period. They don't work.

And I was of the belief they would work from the start.

I don't think they should be needed, but I am sympathetic to leaders who prescribed them after it was clear it was not going to be adopted otherwise.

I think of the doctor here who required masks to be worn in his waiting room. One of his patients refused to wear it, another patient fought him over it. The doctor was upset with both patients, but was especially frustrated with the patient who refused to wear a mask because his waiting room could potentially include a lot of ill people who could have a severe course of covid if they caught it.

The owner of my favorite restaurant said that while he was repulsed by any limitation on his capacity, he liked the mask mandate because at least he could blame the government rather than make the own policy to protect his employees.

I think a government mask mandate gives doctors and restaurant owners like that cover for requiring masks. Now many business owners are going to have to make a decision whether they will lose business from the people who refuse to wear a mask in their business versus losing business from people who are scared to go places where masks aren't required.

At the end of the day, i wish neither businesses nor the government would need to require anything. I wish people would just do it when it made sense (close, sustained contact indoors with poor ventilation).

So then when it was clear they were not working why didn't leaders step up and admit the same?