Hydroxychloroquine...........

322,620 Views | 1854 Replies | Last: 9 mo ago by Jabin
Learned2Code
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Here is the link to the Minnesota clinical trial. Some Dr. on tv said it's supposed to report out in a week or two. It's for PreP.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04328467
Skillet Shot
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I don't see zinc anywhere in the study. Maybe I missed it?
Skillet Shot
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https://www.barrons.com/news/zinc-hydroxychloroquine-found-effective-in-some-covid-19-patients-study-01589234407

Anyone hear about this NYU study showing positive results with zinc? It's still anecdotal, but promising nonetheless. I couldn't find any "mainstream" news sources talking about it. 8 days old and I just saw it.
DadHammer
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AG
Just HCQ
No zinc?
No Azithromycin?
Seems to differ from the promising studies that use all three.

"Experimental: Intervention Once Weekly

400 mg orally once, followed by 400mg 6 to 8 hours later, thereafter 400mg weekly for the duration of follow up, up to 12 weeks"

"Experimental: Intervention Twice Weekly

400mg orally once, followed by 400mg 6 to 8 hours later, thereafter 400mg twice weekly for the duration of follow up, up to 12 weeks"

400 mg weekly? So start of each week you take one 400 mg pill or two 400 mg pills and then another a week later? One or two pills per week?
DadHammer
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AG
The main stream media will not report anything positive, especially if HCQ is mentioned in any positive light.
2PacShakur
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Do we honestly believe Trump's taking it? Or relying on extensive testing and contract tracing provided by WH.

Edit: maybe he tested positive
VaultingChemist
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AG


All 10,000 policemen over the age of 40 were offered the HCQ treatment, but only 4500 decided to take it.
amercer
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/

https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620311806.pdf

"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19."
Keegan99
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So yet another study that focuses on patients already hospitalized.
Ranger222
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Quote:

Patients who received one of the treatments of interest within 48 h of diagnosis were included in one of four treatment groups

......
FTAG 2000
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Keegan99 said:

So yet another study that focuses on patients already hospitalized.

It's like they're trying to screw it up.

fig96
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AG 2000' said:

Keegan99 said:

So yet another study that focuses on patients already hospitalized.
It's like they're trying to screw it up.
I feel like the general treatment protocol is more the issue than anything intentional.

People who aren't at high risk, or aren't even sure they have anything, aren't going to take a drug that they most likely don't need. If they do get to the point where they're admitted to a hospital then they're going to look at other treatments.
Forum Troll
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AG
Go read some of the paper. No one is trying to screw up anything. The study has early treatment (something we've all wanted to see from a study), multiple treatment groups, and a huge population size. And it excludes patients taking remdesivir and patients on vents.
Quote:

Patients who received one of the treatments of interest within 48 h of diagnosis were included in one of four treatment groups (chloroquine alone, chloroquine with a macrolide, hydroxychloroquine alone, or hydroxychloroquine with a macrolide), and patients who received none of these treatments formed the control group. Patients for whom one of the treatments of interest was initiated more than 48 h after diagnosis or while they were on mechanical ventilation, as well as patients who received remdesivir, were excluded.
There is a large trial I think out of the UK that is doing some sort of prophylactic type of deal but won't be done until late summer.

So far all the positive data on HCQ is either anecdotal or very small study size. Maybe there is some golden period where it is effective, and if there is it seems very narrow considering when treatment was started in this study. Otherwise it seems like a disappointing dud.
BallerStaf2003
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The risk of mortality is increased 30-40% in this retrospective review of over 90,000 patients!

That is a huge risk!

For a board that talks about how minor coronavirus is, even if Hydroxychloroquine did work, the risk far outweighs the benefits.
PJYoung
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BallerStaf2003 said:

The risk of mortality is increased 30-40% in this retrospective review of over 90,000 patients!

That is a huge risk!

For a board that talks about how minor coronavirus is, even if Hydroxychloroquine did work, the risk far outweighs the benefits.
amercer
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For any normal drug development, a result like this would be the absolute end of the program.

Most new drugs/ new indications we try fail. So any drug failing isn't a surprise, it's an expectation. Unfortunately this particular drug has become a political football, which makes everything much worse.
Ranger222
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"First, do no harm"
OldArmy71
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Ranger222 said:


Quote:

Patients who received one of the treatments of interest within 48 h of diagnosis were included in one of four treatment groups

......

I am an agnostic on hydroxy. I want the truth, not some political position.

However, we need to know how long the patients had had symptoms, not how long after diagnosis they were administered the hydroxy.

All along we have been saying that hydroxy needs to be started within a few days of symptoms, not of diagnosis, which can take much longer and result in the golden moment of efficacy being passed.

I do not know that is what happened here, but it is a possibility.
FTAG 2000
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Did I miss where the study combines HCQ and zinc? It mentions macrolides, but I don't see the zinc callout.
BallerStaf2003
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AG 2000' said:

Did I miss where the study combines HCQ and zinc? It mentions macrolides, but I don't see the zinc callout.



What does that have to do with the massive increase in heart issues and death?

Zinc isn't going to reduce side effects.
OldArmy71
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There are hundreds of thousands of people who for years have been taking hydroxy for RA and lupus and malaria, and they are not dying in droves.

Something else is at play here. I could be the COVID makes the heart more susceptible. I don't know.
Forum Troll
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So here is the population breakdown for the control and treatment groups.

Control group (n=81 144)
Chloroquine (n=1868)
Chloroquine with macrolide (n=3783)
Hydroxychloroquine (n=3016)
Hydroxychloroquine with macrolide (n=6221)

The authors of the paper were most concerned by ventricular arrhythmia and in patient mortality rates.

De-novo ventricular arrhythmia
Control - 226 (0.3%)
Chloroquine - 81 (4.3%)
Chloroquine with macrolide - 246 (6.5%)
HCQ - 184 (6.1%)
HCQ with macrolide - 502 (8.1%)

Mortality
Control - 7530 (9.3%)
Chloroquine - 307 (16.4%)
Chloroquine with macrolide - 839 (22.2%)
HCQ - 543 (18.0%)
HCQ with macrolide - 1479 (23.8%)

edit some missing decimals that didn't copy over.
BallerStaf2003
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OldArmy71 said:

There are hundreds of thousands of people who for years have been taking hydroxy for RA and lupus and malaria, and they are not dying in droves.

Something else is at play here. I could be the COVID makes the heart more susceptible. I don't know.


The whole point of the study is that it's been being used for years and HAS CAUSED a significant increase in mortality.
Infection_Ag11
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amercer said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/

https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620311806.pdf

"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19."



I'll be honest, I'm been skeptical of this therapy from the start and more concerned about the potential side effects than most and this study still shocks me. Even factoring in the cases of viral myocarditis, that's a HUGE increase in ventricular arrhythmias in a study with a large sample size.

Wow
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Joe Exotic
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BallerStaf2003 said:

amercer said:

For any normal drug development, a result like this would be the absolute end of the program.

Most new drugs/ new indications we try fail. So any drug failing isn't a surprise, it's an expectation. Unfortunately this particular drug has become a political football, which makes everything much worse.


I still don't know what Trumps motivation is for continuing to go against his own administration on hydroxychloroquine.

Is it bc he stupidly touted the drug at the beginning as a game changer and his narcissism won't allow him to admit he's wrong?

Or is there some other interest there?

It boggles my mind why he continues to do something so wreckless.


Have you called out the doctors on this board for continuing to prescribe it?
BallerStaf2003
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AG
You already asked me that, troll.

And I'm not one to tell a doctor what to do with his patients. Not my right.
culdeus
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This has been a needless distraction and hopefully draws this discussion to a close. It's very sad that a drug became a battle line for some, in doing so it likely took resources away from real treatment protocol research.
BallerStaf2003
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Joe Exotic said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

You already asked me that, troll.

And I'm not one to tell a doctor what to do with his patients. Not my right.


It's a message board. You can tell them anything you want.

Do you think doctors prescribing it are making a mistake?


Again, a doctor's experiences are their own and i am not qualified to tell them what to do, message board or not.

This is merely my opinion on a message board, where I'm commenting on the results of clinical studies.
BallerStaf2003
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culdeus said:

This has been a needless distraction and hopefully draws this discussion to a close. It's very sad that a drug became a battle line for some, in doing so it likely took resources away from real treatment protocol research.


It won't.
aginlakeway
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Bonfire1996
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Simply amazing that thousands of rheumatologists worldwide have been knowingly prescribing the death pill for their patients for decades. I wonder if these studies will cause them to a)stop prescribing HCQ and b)get sued by their regular patients immediately.

Open and shut case, right folks? I mean the pill raises your chance of death by 35%! It's over.
Fitch
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The drug has been known to have potential heart complications for ever. You have a novel virus that weakens your heart and blood along with lungs and other major organs.... not sure why it's any great surprise.

Still, I'm curious how to explain the anecdotal reports that seemed pretty consistently positive, even with the handful of "I treated 500 patients and they never got sick" stories that were unbelievable to start with.

Edit to add "potential"
Forum Troll
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Fitch said:

The drug has been known to have heart complications for ever. You have a novel virus that weakens your heart and blood along with lungs and other major organs.... not sure why it's any great surprise.

Still, I'm curious how to explain the anecdotal reports that seemed pretty consistently positive, even with the handful of "I treated 500 patients and they never got sick" stories that were unbelievable to start with.


Theres a bunch of crap over the years that had positive anecdotal evidence only to be studied with control gorups and find out it was worthless. Numerous examples in both human medicine and vet med.
Alf83
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Infection_Ag11 said:

amercer said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/

https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620311806.pdf

"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19."



I'll be honest, I'm been skeptical of this therapy from the start and more concerned about the potential side effects than most and this study still shocks me. Even factoring in the cases of viral myocarditis, that's a HUGE increase in ventricular arrhythmias in a study with a large sample size.

Wow
Forum Troll
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alf83 said:

Infection_Ag11 said:

amercer said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/22/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/

https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620311806.pdf

"We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19."



I'll be honest, I'm been skeptical of this therapy from the start and more concerned about the potential side effects than most and this study still shocks me. Even factoring in the cases of viral myocarditis, that's a HUGE increase in ventricular arrhythmias in a study with a large sample size.

Wow



Maybe I'm missing it but the study he's referencing has no control group.
 
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