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SWA moving to assigned seating in 2025

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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to I bleed maroon • 1:55p, 8/8/24
AG
The comment about lounges sucking is about the volume of people who have access to them. Its very much the, 'nobody goes there anymore its too crowded' joke. Everyone has either credit card rewards or airline status to get access to and overcrowd the lounge.

Again, a generation ago, you truly had to be a traveling salesman or exec to get access to a lounge. And they were very lightly used and very nice. My dad used to make a very big deal out of getting upgraded to a lounge and how nice they were. The few times I got to go in one as a kid I got a stern talking to about this being very very nice places and to mind my manners. And they were.

Most people nowadays treat modern lounges like its a casual restaurant or starbucks. That is why I brought up if you had the status and the wealth 30 years ago to go to a lounge regularly, you most likely today have such an increased wealth that you take a private jet.
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Cyp0111
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2:09p, 8/8/24
I have the United Chase card with free club access etc. I agree they push a lot of people through there but I can almost always find a good seat, power, grab a drink and snack before my flight. There is value to that.


southwest big issue out of Houston is that you can barely fly anywhere direct and the times you can find a direct flight suck and are costly
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Ducks4brkfast
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 2:54p, 8/8/24
AG
Yes, it's gotten to the point where it's a pleasant surprise if there isn't a line/ wait to get into a United or Priority Pass Club.
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MyMamaSaid
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 5:48p, 8/8/24
AG
one MEEN Ag said:
Also, lounges suck nowadays. Anyone who had enough money in the 90s to go enjoy lounges when they were actually exclusive probably has private jet rental money now.
I am one of those career traveling consultant types - since 1995. The lounges are still good IMO, but not nearly as quiet as they were back in the late 90s. I will say that the new United Clubs in Denver and Chicago are VERY nice. I'm guessing whatever they build in new terminal B will be something really cool. I like how the new clubs aren't cookie cutter. I'm guessing the term B new one will have some kind of Space City or Rodeo theme.

One of my very few regrets was passing on an opportunity in 2001 or 2002 to buy a Continental President Club lifetime pass….for $600. I think it was maybe 5x the cost of the annual pass at the time. A colleague made that purchase and it was converted to lifetime United Club when they bought Continental. I think they offered it for about 4-6 weeks and I just didn't think I would use it very much. That was a horrible thought because I'm in United Clubs pretty much twice a week, every week.

The thing I really dislike is holiday travelers who bring in spouse + 2 kids with full load of luggage. Just really clogs things up.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to Cyp0111 • 6:43p, 8/8/24
Cyp0111 said:
I have the United Chase card with free club access etc. I agree they push a lot of people through there but I can almost always find a good seat, power, grab a drink and snack before my flight. There is value to that.


southwest big issue out of Houston is that you can barely fly anywhere direct and the times you can find a direct flight suck and are costly


Barely any direct flights???

Southwest has direct flights out of HOU to over 70 destinations.

I agree the direct flights are often expensive, but so are United's direct flights. All airlines are charging a premium for flights between 8 am and 6 pm.

I will say it is more difficult to get places on the East Coast, but that's also true of United and American. They want to route you through EWR or PHL, both of which are terrible for connecting flights.
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one MEEN Ag
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In reply to MyMamaSaid • 8:04p, 8/8/24
AG
MyMamaSaid said:
one MEEN Ag said:
Also, lounges suck nowadays. Anyone who had enough money in the 90s to go enjoy lounges when they were actually exclusive probably has private jet rental money now.
I am one of those career traveling consultant types - since 1995. The lounges are still good IMO, but not nearly as quiet as they were back in the late 90s. I will say that the new United Clubs in Denver and Chicago are VERY nice. I'm guessing whatever they build in new terminal B will be something really cool. I like how the new clubs aren't cookie cutter. I'm guessing the term B new one will have some kind of Space City or Rodeo theme.

One of my very few regrets was passing on an opportunity in 2001 or 2002 to buy a Continental President Club lifetime pass….for $600. I think it was maybe 5x the cost of the annual pass at the time. A colleague made that purchase and it was converted to lifetime United Club when they bought Continental. I think they offered it for about 4-6 weeks and I just didn't think I would use it very much. That was a horrible thought because I'm in United Clubs pretty much twice a week, every week.

The thing I really dislike is holiday travelers who bring in spouse + 2 kids with full load of luggage. Just really clogs things up.
Man $600 that wouldve been a steal.

This was me as a kid. I was the one clogging it up and eating all the free snacks.
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MyMamaSaid
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In reply to one MEEN Ag • 8:17p, 8/8/24
AG
I was at the EWR P-club in 2000 and a guy goes up to the bar and says "man, I love the free drinks and snacks!" The bartender replied with "they're not free. They're pre-paid!"
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Jock 07
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In reply to Gordo14 • 8:31p, 8/8/24
AG
Gordo14 said:
one MEEN Ag said:
I've noticed that southwest really isn't that much cheaper than the rest nowadays. It is nice specifically in Houston to avoid the mess that is IAH and United but that is not a value proposition that keeps a whole company afloat. I did like how SW opened a route to Hawaii, but you know that route is basically all frequent flyer miles cashing in.

Open seating was a double edged sword. If you flew just enough you could get better perks on SW than major carriers by A list boarding and sitting bulkhead. If you were basically a traveling consultant level of flying SW couldn't match other airlines perks. Preboarding was getting out of control though. Definitely a negative attractant as someone 'in a wheelchair' could parlay that into the best seat on the plane without having to pay up or be a very frequent flyer.

Airline credit cards have doubled down on tying airline profitability to credit irresponsible demographics while usually their highest profitability seats are full of people who generally know to pay their credit cards off each month. The same demographic that makes credit card rewards a huge cost drag also makes flying a huge cost drag. SW hasn't really done anything to make people pay up for nicer seats to use on top of points. There is no first class. I can't pay '$300+ points' to get a way nicer experience for the same price as normally flying.

As more and more people fly, there are is a larger contingent of people who want to be separated from cattle class. SW doesn't offer you any options.

Also, lounges suck nowadays. Anyone who had enough money in the 90s to go enjoy lounges when they were actually exclusive probably has private jet rental money now.


Not all lounges suck. The Chase Sapphire lounges are fantastic.

As is the centurion lounge. The new DIA United clubs are pretty solid as well.
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Cyp0111
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In reply to TXTransplant • 10:01p, 8/8/24
They have 1-2 at most direct flights a day to a lot of the major cities. Comparatively, they try to push more people through connections
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TXTransplant
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In reply to Cyp0111 • 11:04p, 8/8/24
Idk what your definition of major cities is. SW has multiple direct flights a day to Denver (7), Chicago (both airports, 6 direct to MDW), New York (4), Orlando (5), Miami (three airports, direct to two), San Diego (2), LA area (five airports with 7 direct options), Vegas (7), DC/BWI (three airports, 7 direct options), Nashville (5), and Atlanta (4). Oakland and San Jose are only one flight per day, but you can get to both direct (SFO is not direct).

Arguably, the only big hub city missing a direct flight is Philadelphia, but it's not a hub for United, either. So if you need to connect to another NE city through PHL, you're prob flying AA.

The two big coastal cities missing direct flights are Boston and Seattle, although, I think SW has operated those routes seasonally in the past. I would agree that not having direct flights to either place is annoying. But BOS isn't really a hub city for any airline out of Houston. I've never seen a flight option on any airline to connect through there on to another destination.

And you can't get to Portland (Oregon or Maine), Detroit, or Minneapolis direct. But you can get to all of those destinations with a stop over.
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AlaskanAg99
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1:52a, 8/9/24
AG
Lifelong SWA flyer and I don't fly much anymore.

Still think this totally blows. And now I'll start shopping other carriers even though I haven't flown one in....26 years. Except Hawaiian. And Alaskan (to uh, go to Alaska). The 2 free bags will still be a draw but wow.
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Cyp0111
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In reply to TXTransplant • 8:59a, 8/9/24
I dont know what to tell you, for business travel, the times and number of direct flights are sub optimal. Also-- in cities like LA, throwing all the regional airports isn't overly realistic. The fact is they've dropped the % of direct flights out of Houston since the Wright amendment went away.

I guess they're fine for vacation travel but not overly reliable for business esp with times and options.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to Cyp0111 • 9:03a, 8/9/24
I will concede that spreading direct options across multiple regional airports in one city probably isn't great for business travelers.

But the statement that they only have 1-2 direct flights per day to most major cities just isn't correct.
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Cyp0111
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In reply to TXTransplant • 9:11a, 8/9/24
sorry, you are correct.

But 2-3 flights a day to capital centers (LAX, La Guardia)


They do have direct flights to Nashville, Orlando or other places like Phoenix where they push a lot of planes. Those places are great for vacation travel I guess.


However, if you need to get to Houston to the coasts (New York, San Fran, LA,) for work, they've taken a huge step back.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to Cyp0111 • 9:30a, 8/9/24
San Fran is def an issue on SW.

I don't find it super easy to get to NY from Houston on any airline, unless you are going to EWR. We needed to get to JFK for an international flight and wound up taking an early flight to LGA on SW and spending the day at a museum before our evening flight. No airline out of IAH had a better option.

I've flown to LAX once and don't really want to do that again. I'd prefer one of the regional airports, but I am not a business traveler.

I find East coast much more difficult to get to from Houston no matter the airline. We go to Maine annually, and our only options out of IAH are to connect in PHL or CLT on AA. I guess technically you can get there on United, but the options always include an overnight layover in NY or a transfer from EWR to LGA. Not options anyone in their right might would choose.
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TX_COWDOC
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9:40a, 8/9/24
AG
Noticed this as I boarded for Denver yesterday. 2000th B737. I gave up status on United and mostly
Fly SWA out of Austin to get to places I travel frequently.

Waiting to see how this plays out.
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I bleed maroon
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In reply to TX_COWDOC • 9:50a, 8/9/24
AG
TX_COWDOC said:
Noticed this as I boarded for Denver yesterday. 2000th B737. I gave up status on United and mostly
Fly SWA out of Austin to get to places I travel frequently.

Waiting to see how this plays out.
Yeah - those in Houston (I was once one) should be pretty thankful for all the direct flights they DO have. From Austin, the pickings are slim. Give me Houston, any day!

Side gripe: I'm lifetime million-miler Gold with United, but I just went all-in with American (AA credit card, booked all flights with them, etc.) due to the relatively large number of direct flights they offer. Fast forward to a few days ago, they dropped 5-6 of them (including Vegas, Orlando, Reno, New Orleans, Palm Springs). This is right after they gave me a temporary 4-month Platinum status. Annoying!

Also - Connecting flights aren't as convenient, but these are first-world problems, for sure.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to I bleed maroon • 10:26a, 8/9/24
I love to travel, so one of the reasons I will probably stay in Houston is because of the options from both airports.

With that said, given how big Houston is and its central
location in the country, I actually think we should have more flight options.

Unfortunately, neither United or SW have returned to their pre-Covid flight schedules.

And United has basically no domestic competition out of IAH. If I'm flying AA or Delta out of IAH, it's because United can't get me where I want to go. And if you're not flying non-stop to a major city on United, their prices are expensive.

I hate that SW pulled out of IAH, because at least they gave United some competition. There weren't many direct flight options, but you could get a decent number of places if you were willing to connect through LAS or BNA. And the direct flights to MCO were usually significantly cheaper than flying out of HOU.

Don't get me started on trying to get to Canada. I went to Montreal earlier this year, and no domestic airline could get me there in a reasonable time (like 12-15 hour layovers). I flew Air Canada, which was fine, but it was my ONLY option. Both Air Canada and AA fly to Montreal direct from Dallas (and there are decent flights with stops on AA).

Maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like Dallas being a major hub for AA and SW means the Houston area gets fewer flights.
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jh0400
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In reply to TXTransplant • 10:51a, 8/9/24
AG
AC flies nonstop to YYZ and YUL out of IAH, and most of the time the flights can be booked codeshare through UA if you're chasing status. They also fly A220s which are nice if you're traveling with a companion and can get seats on the two side of the three by two.

You can also clear CBP at the origin on your way back, which is pretty convenient.
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TXTransplant
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In reply to jh0400 • 10:58a, 8/9/24
That's basically what I did. I don't think I booked the code share, but I'm not certain. I do remember seeing price differences between booking through United or directly with AC. I also ended up flying YUL to YQB on the outbound flight and YUL direct home (to save the drive from Montreal to Quebec).

It was not a bad flight/option by any means, there were just NO other realistic options - even considering connecting flights. It was Air Canada or nothing. There were two direct flights on AC per day, which was good. And the flight was very expensive (over $700) because there is no competition.

The customs at Canadian airports is usually pretty good. I've done that a few times at YYC and it was super fast.

Customs at YUL was super backed up the day I flew home. I have global entry and did some sort of online check in the day before and breezed through. But there were probably 300 people trying to get through the line when I went through. Our plane was delayed about 40 min because of the back up at customs.
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YouBet
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12:38p, 8/9/24
AG
You people are spoiled. Try having CRP as your home airport. No matter where I go I have to stop in Houston (WN) or Dallas (AA). Not sure about United as I haven't flown them yet but assume I'm stopping at IAH.

That was the primary drawback of moving out of Dallas is that I went from arguably the best airport location in the western hemisphere to one of the worst.
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Four Seasons Landscaping
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In reply to Cyp0111 • 7:22a, 8/10/24
Cyp0111 is an example of the kind of passenger they're trying to attract with this change that will not fly with them anyway. There's nothing wrong with his opinion at all; it's just foolish of Southwest to turn its back on loyal customers to chase after people who don't like what you do.

I'm of the opinion there are TON of direct flights from Hobby but I rarely fly to the coasts.
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YouBet
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In reply to Four Seasons Landscaping • 7:57a, 8/10/24
AG
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
Cyp0111 is an example of the kind of passenger they're trying to attract with this change that will not fly with them anyway. There's nothing wrong with his opinion at all; it's just foolish of Southwest to turn its back on loyal customers to chase after people who don't like what you do.

I'm of the opinion there are TON of direct flights from Hobby but I rarely fly to the coasts.


It's knee jerk from Elliott and also share price driven. The problem SWA has is there are no big splashes left for them to make. They've saturated the US domestic market and are already flying to any market that's profitable including many that are not profitable, individually. All about network effect.

They can't / won't figure out near international. Their big push around 10 years ago was to grow all over North America and that failed and they actually pulled back from it and you've never heard about it again.

Then it was adding Hawaii which never made much sense because flying 5 hours on a no frills 737 with a significant load of RR points customers doesn't do much for anyone. Never understood that move at all. I looked at HA's market cap back then and it was $2B. SWA could have just written a check for HA and probably would have been better off if they really wanted HA.

So, all that leaves you with are tweaks to your form factor. It reminds of where Apple is with the iPhone right now. There have been no new generational changes in several years because they've maxed the form factor and there is really nothing else left you can do with it other than software feature changes.

Same thing here with SWA. If you are going to ride or die with the 737 then that forever limits you to a certain geography and operational parameters. All you can do then is tweak the inside of the plane and try to squeeze blood from that stone. SWA has hit the limit of what they can do with their 50+ year business model. You either decide to stay with it and be ok just operating consistently in the domestic US while Wall Street keeps hounding you about what's next, or you go big and try to change it up.

The dual problem that SWA has is there is nothing new for them to do and now they are falling behind on what they have historically done well. It's a double whammy and what you are seeing are panic decisions from that.
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MyMamaSaid
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9:29a, 8/10/24
AG
I was a CO zealot from '95-'11 under Gordon. Almost cracked 1 million miles in that time flying all over for work and play. There was a period from '98-'05 when I never flew in coach. Not once. Upgraded every single flight.

Then UA happened. I was flying from LAX back to IAH and a UA plane shows up with a UA crew. Really bad experience. Went sour real quick, tainted by change fees, etc.

I had an occasion to fly SW from HOU to ATL as they just started service there. The flight was ~$1000 less than UA, so I decided to give a try. I was blown away at how convenient the renovated HOU was, how fast SW jets get to/fro gates, and how good RR was for me as a mostly domestic traveler. Most of my biz flying was DAL, OKC, TUL, DEN, MDW, SLC, PHX for several years, so it worked out great. A-List + Companion every year from '12-'21. Took scores of RR trips during that time. Made the most of RR, for sure.

But man, has SW changed for the worst. Started with the whole pre-boarding folks, but I have to say they really alienated me with their after-COVID schedule. Prior to COVID, there would be 3-5 flights a day from HOU to places like OKC & TUL, 6 or so a day to DEN, etc. But for some reason they fragmented things by starting service to IAH, DFW, etc. Suddenly, there was 1 or 2 a day to OKC, TUL and 3 or 4 to DEN.

That broke me. The new schedule basically forced me back to UA, which was easy given they got rid of change fees and status-matched me to Platinum in '21. I also now started flying to EU on occasion, BOS, EWR and SLC a lot more frequently. Been 1K ever since summer '21 and likely will be for the next few years prior to retirement.

I agree with the sentiment that SWA has 'played out' their cards from the deck they started with in 1971. They were great up until the pandemic, but they're just falling apart at the seams. I don't think they will resemble their past much at all past 2025. Sad, but honestly likely to play out that way.
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Four Seasons Landscaping
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12:04p, 8/10/24
What's the term for being pro-capitalist but very anti-the part of capitalism that makes companies think they have to keep growing instead of just being really good at serving a well-defined and profitable niche?
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P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to Four Seasons Landscaping • 4:14p, 8/10/24
AG
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
What's the term for being pro-capitalist but very anti-the part of capitalism that makes companies think they have to keep growing instead of just being really good at serving a well-defined and profitable niche?

I don't think that's a critique of capitalism so much as poor decisions/decision makers, including shareholders.

If SW would return to their core competencies of reliable, friendly, flexible and frugal, while upgrading their technology, I think they'd have a winner.

It's a lot like A&M in a way…chasing perceived short term rewards by trying to be like everyone else while getting rid of a lot of what made you unique, just makes you a poor imitation of the competition.
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Gordo14
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In reply to Four Seasons Landscaping • 9:26a, 8/11/24
Four Seasons Landscaping said:
What's the term for being pro-capitalist but very anti-the part of capitalism that makes companies think they have to keep growing instead of just being really good at serving a well-defined and profitable niche?


Again, I think you are missing the fact that since 2021, consumers are paying up for upgrades and luxury travel experiences at a much higher rate. It means that Southwest has lost it's ability to compete without more premium options. This has been a multi year trend that is showing no signs of stopping. In fact, I'd say it's not likely to reverse unless we have a real economic downturn. So southwest has the choice to beat their head against the wall as it struggles for profitability or adapt. They chose to adapt; some consumers want them to beat their head against the wall because they prefer that. Much easier for the consumers to ask the CEO to keep beating their head against the wall than to actually do it.

At the end of the day, the business must seek profitability maximization or die a slow, painful death.
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DannyDuberstein
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9:52a, 8/11/24
AG
I go to the "why not both?". Build a small first class and a small section of upgraded seats that you sell by the seat with priority boarding. All else is open.
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khkman22
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5:07p, 8/11/24
AG
I have four kids and am looking to book a flight. Last year I booked the Anytime fare with points because I was worried about us all sitting together. The youngest this year is 6 and next youngest is 10.

Will we all get to board in the family boarding group or just one adult and the youngest kid? If I book the Wanna Get Away fare and then check in immediately when it is available 24 hours in advance, will we be early B group because of the youngest kid? Does Wanna Get Away Plus provide any benefits related to check in and sitting together in this situation?

And what about a flight with a connection? Do I have to check in 24 hours in advance for the second leg as well to have a boarding position, or does my initial check in position somehow carryover to the second leg?
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AggieT
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In reply to khkman22 • 5:13p, 8/11/24
AG
I've never had a problem just setting an alarm and checking in exactly 24 hours before the flight. If in B group, you might need to go to the back of the plane, but likely find all seats together/close enough. If you are that concerned about it, pay for early bird check-in.

No idea on connections.
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Jock 07
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In reply to khkman22 • 5:55p, 8/11/24
AG
Reading this thread sounds like none of that matters since 1/2 the plane will be full of fatsos with travel scrabble pre-boarding in wheelchairs.
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tlh3842
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In reply to khkman22 • 8:22p, 8/11/24
AG
khkman22 said:
I have four kids and am looking to book a flight. Last year I booked the Anytime fare with points because I was worried about us all sitting together. The youngest this year is 6 and next youngest is 10.

Will we all get to board in the family boarding group or just one adult and the youngest kid? If I book the Wanna Get Away fare and then check in immediately when it is available 24 hours in advance, will we be early B group because of the youngest kid? Does Wanna Get Away Plus provide any benefits related to check in and sitting together in this situation?

And what about a flight with a connection? Do I have to check in 24 hours in advance for the second leg as well to have a boarding position, or does my initial check in position somehow carryover to the second leg?


Can't speak to the first questions, but historically checking in for the first leg auto checks in for the connection as well.
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 10:02a, 8/12/24
AG
DannyDuberstein said:
I go to the "why not both?". Build a small first class and a small section of upgraded seats that you sell by the seat with priority boarding. All else is open.


Just got on a SWA flight this morning and had the same thought! Only thing is no one wants to pay up if you're going to be a middle seat. Guess they would do a 2x2 for this front section then 3x3 and open seating all behind it? That seems like a nice meet in the middle solution.
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Four Seasons Landscaping
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In reply to Gordo14 • 9:17a, 8/13/24
Quote:
So southwest has the choice to beat their head against the wall as it struggles for profitability or adapt.
They're not struggling for profitability.

Their last down quarter was Q1 of 2023 and they beat expectations for Q2 of this year.
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fightingfarmer09
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In reply to khkman22 • 9:28a, 8/13/24
khkman22 said:
I have four kids and am looking to book a flight. Last year I booked the Anytime fare with points because I was worried about us all sitting together. The youngest this year is 6 and next youngest is 10.

Will we all get to board in the family boarding group or just one adult and the youngest kid? If I book the Wanna Get Away fare and then check in immediately when it is available 24 hours in advance, will we be early B group because of the youngest kid? Does Wanna Get Away Plus provide any benefits related to check in and sitting together in this situation?

And what about a flight with a connection? Do I have to check in 24 hours in advance for the second leg as well to have a boarding position, or does my initial check in position somehow carryover to the second leg?


All tickets check in the same. Doesn't matter though, you can family board immediately after the A group and prior to the B group regardless of the boarding position. They make the announcement following A-31-60 when they ask for A-List that didn't have A group boarding. Just ask the counter to allow you with the 10 year old.

You can avoid this with early bird check in and have it auto check in for best positioning. All tickets purchased in the same reservation will always board sequentially, regardless of the tier you purchased.

All connections check in at the same time.
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