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SWA moving to assigned seating in 2025

20,899 Views | 226 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by Ozzy Osbourne
TXTransplant
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94chem said:

I think they just never explained what they were doing in a way that families could understand. I guess if you were a lone traveler, it didn't matter, and maybe they wanted it to be murky for families so they could keep kids off the planes. Either way, I never knew how it worked, and still don't. I've flown SWA and never not had a seat before boarding. Maybe I've only flown since they changed their policy. Also, I never cared about free bags. Taking anything larger than a backpack is a sign of weakness.


I can remember having this hesitation back in the mid-2000s. I thought it was going to be "too much hassle" to fly SW with my son and no assigned seats. But a few conversations with family who were flying them regularly, and I realized the concerns were unfounded.

To a certain extent, SW has been a victim of its own success. Families were willing to give up certain "perks" on other airlines for the chance to fly the whole family to Orlando for $150 r/t instead of driving for 15 hours.

How else do you explain how Spirit is still in business? Some people will put up with ANYTHING to save $.

SW really did change the industry and made air travel more accessible to the middle and even lower class.

Business travelers realized that the efficiency of SW was better than the legacy carriers, especially on short-haul flights (ie, less than 2 hours) where being in first class isn't a huge perk (if it's even offered at all, depending on the plane).

Problem is, other low-cost airlines followed suit, the legacy airlines lowered their rates (to an extent), and inflation caused SW to have to raise their prices. The days of $150 r/t tickets to anywhere worth visiting are long gone.

When prices are equal, there is no reason for someone who isn't loyal to SW to choose them over another airline.

We recently flew JetBlue, and I'd say that experience was as good as SW. They do have seat fees, but they offer free high speed internet to everyone. So, you can surf the web and even watch videos while in flight. Problem is, they don't have a lot of direct routes from IAH. But I would definitely consider flying with them again.
permabull
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SWA has been the punching bag for a lot of points websites clickbait articles recently. It sounds like the people who are crying for this change aren't even SWA customers. Hopefully I am wrong and SWA is making this change for the right reasons, but I have a feeling this is a kneejerk reaction to their recent performance and they are going to spend a lot of money making this change and have very little in return to show for it.
YouBet
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permabull said:

SWA has been the punching bag for a lot of points websites clickbait articles recently. It sounds like the people who are crying for this change aren't even SWA customers. Hopefully I am wrong and SWA is making this change for the right reasons, but I have a feeling this is a kneejerk reaction to their recent performance and they are going to spend a lot of money making this change and have very little in return to show for it.


Certainly a risk of that happening. Right or wrong they are removing a competitive differentiator that gets them one huge step closer to everyone else. So now they are going to look even more like a legacy airline without some of the perks of a legacy airline.

This also won't happen anytime soon. Minimum two years away before this is real, IMO. The amount of change under the hood to make this happen is huge.
Stonegateag85
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Everyone whining about flying SWA, try flying in Europe. They'll have boarding groups and they'll be queuing out the door and crowding the boarding area.
Bayou City
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No way this takes 2 years. Not a shot. March 2025.
Gordo14
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permabull said:

SWA has been the punching bag for a lot of points websites clickbait articles recently. It sounds like the people who are crying for this change aren't even SWA customers. Hopefully I am wrong and SWA is making this change for the right reasons, but I have a feeling this is a kneejerk reaction to their recent performance and they are going to spend a lot of money making this change and have very little in return to show for it.


Consumers have voted with their wallets. Southwest is struggling for profitability (as are spirit, frontier and jet blue). Legacy carriers are thriving. You can complain about other people all you want, but profits don't lie.
YouBet
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Bayou City said:

No way this takes 2 years. Not a shot. March 2025.


If you mean fully implemented and not just opening the booking window, that's a ballsy prediction that assumes changes are made across product and reward program strategy, IT systems, processes, data and reporting, gate reconfigs, staffing, and training. Because I'm talking fully implemented.

This is a major change with tentacles that touch almost everything. If they implement this by March you can bet the house that means they did exactly what everyone accuses them of doing right now which is band aiding ****ty IT with multiple points of failure in order to hit a date instead of doing it right.

Their current booking window goes through March 5, 2025 and they are currently planning to extend that to April 7, 2025 on Aug 22 (subject to change). So you must mean allowing for bookings as of March 2025 which then gives them another 9-12 months to fully implement.
94chem
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AggieT said:

Obviously, you're not a golfer.

/Lebowski


Yeah, I used to take my electric guitar on planes and just slide it under my feet. Don't suppose that would fit in the backpack box.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
waco
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Southwest starting to lose me when they started letting anyone go to the counter and get special boarding. I would be A5 and be like the 30th person on board. Word got out and everyone had grandma in a wheelchair or claiming anxiety and the gate agents just let it go.

One way to solve that is if you require a wheelchair to get on then you are required to use one when you get off and you get off last. Lots of miracles performed with people I saw that got on with a wheelchair and midflight they are up moving around and first one off the plane.
94chem
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I fly to Atlanta all the time on Spirit for $50.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
TXTransplant
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You are braver than I am. My BF had a terrible experience with them, and I'm pretty sure he would ban me from planning any more travel if I booked tickets with them.
Stonegateag85
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The difference between the budget American Airlines and budget European airlines is really something. I was expecting some really janky ass planes and they were all very well kept with attractive stewardess.
TXTransplant
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I think some of it may just be perception/expectations. Even the big EU airlines don't have the perks US legacy carriers on short haul flights. If you compare US domestic flights to flights within the EU, the EU flights are definitely more like a flying greyhound bus. I don't mind it, but I know people who don't like flying airlines when basically everyone is in the same class.

Our issue with Spirit isn't the planes or flights themselves, but their penchant for last-minute cancellations and lack of communication regarding said cancellations. And the pretty much non-existent customer service to resolve the issue when the cancellation is on them. I'm not sure my BF ever got his money back from them.
permabull
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Gordo14 said:

permabull said:

SWA has been the punching bag for a lot of points websites clickbait articles recently. It sounds like the people who are crying for this change aren't even SWA customers. Hopefully I am wrong and SWA is making this change for the right reasons, but I have a feeling this is a kneejerk reaction to their recent performance and they are going to spend a lot of money making this change and have very little in return to show for it.


Consumers have voted with their wallets. Southwest is struggling for profitability (as are spirit, frontier and jet blue). Legacy carriers are thriving. You can complain about other people all you want, but profits don't lie.
If this is correct then they are making the right choice. I just get the feeling the execs have run the company poorly and they are using the recent drama over seat saving and people claiming to be disabled as cover for their mismanagement. If what I think is going on is really happening, they are going to spend a bunch of money redesigning their ticketing system, reconfiguring their plane, charging customers more money and likely won't see a substantial return on investment for years.
Petrino1
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TXTransplant said:

You are braver than I am. My BF had a terrible experience with them, and I'm pretty sure he would ban me from planning any more travel if I booked tickets with them.
I've probably flown Spirit over a dozen times, plus the other low cost airlines like Frontier. Ive never had any major issues with them. Ive had flights delayed and bad service from United, AA, Southwest etc. In fact, I was just commenting the last time I flew Spirit that they had more legroom than my last United flight.

All US airlines suck, I dont think the extra costs with United and AA are worth it if you can fly a lot cheaper with Spirit, especially for direct flights. And Spirit's exit row seats are pretty cheap.
TXTransplant
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Given our most recent experience with American, I'm
Inclined to agree. They are no better than Spirit when it comes to cancelling flights (no crew or no plane) with no notification and unreasonable rebooking alternatives.

I would never fly with them again, but they are the only carrier that can get us to one particular destination where we have friends.

Spirit doesn't seem to have a lot of direct flights to places I travel to, either.
YouBet
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permabull said:

Gordo14 said:

permabull said:

SWA has been the punching bag for a lot of points websites clickbait articles recently. It sounds like the people who are crying for this change aren't even SWA customers. Hopefully I am wrong and SWA is making this change for the right reasons, but I have a feeling this is a kneejerk reaction to their recent performance and they are going to spend a lot of money making this change and have very little in return to show for it.


Consumers have voted with their wallets. Southwest is struggling for profitability (as are spirit, frontier and jet blue). Legacy carriers are thriving. You can complain about other people all you want, but profits don't lie.
If this is correct then they are making the right choice. I just get the feeling the execs have run the company poorly and they are using the recent drama over seat saving and people claiming to be disabled as cover for their mismanagement. If what I think is going on is really happening, they are going to spend a bunch of money redesigning their ticketing system, reconfiguring their plane, charging customers more money and likely won't see a substantial return on investment for years.


I think there has been some internal debate around this change, but it absolutely was triggered by Elliott. You had the CMO just last quarter declaring quite adamantly they would NEVER change their boarding procedure and then the next quarter they announce this along with red eyes. Everything they are doing right now is getting ahead of Elliott and staving off further shareholder upheaval.
permabull
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Activist investor is convinced this is what will turn things around for southwest and the CEO doesn't want to lose his job so he has no choice but to announce the change. I wouldn't hold the stock because it sounds like they are going to spend a lot of money and see no ROI.
Bayou City
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Anyone else get the email from the CEO today?
Stonegateag85
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Sometime in 2025.
Bayou City
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Yup. Sounds like the all the newly delivered planes will have the new seating arrangement. Then once those are in service they will retrofit the older planes. Not a bad system if they get delivered as planned.
Jock 07
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From a purely selfish perspective, I hope they drop/lose a lot of their GSA city pairs in the new FY. They cleaned house on those contracts this year.
Brother Shamus
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waco said:

Southwest starting to lose me when they started letting anyone go to the counter and get special boarding. I would be A5 and be like the 30th person on board. Word got out and everyone had grandma in a wheelchair or claiming anxiety and the gate agents just let it go.

One way to solve that is if you require a wheelchair to get on then you are required to use one when you get off and you get off last. Lots of miracles performed with people I saw that got on with a wheelchair and midflight they are up moving around and first one off the plane.


Yup, ghetto trash buying wanna get away tickets and 'upgrading' themselves. People really do suck.
Aggiemike96
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Bayou City said:

Anyone else get the email from the CEO today?


Yep. Not very reassuring.
Four Seasons Landscaping
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Just read that e-mail after a short vacation.

What perk would replace the value of A16 through 40ish boarding that we currently enjoy as A-List customers?

The fact you could change last minute and not be in the Bs was a huge plus. I'm not sure how that would be addressed with assigned seats.
YouBet
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Four Seasons Landscaping said:

Just read that e-mail after a short vacation.

What perk would replace the value of A16 through 40ish boarding that we currently enjoy as A-List customers?

The fact you could change last minute and not be in the Bs was a huge plus. I'm not sure how that would be addressed with assigned seats.


It won't unless they reserve "better" seats in the new model for frequent fliers. Better TBD but right now the only way to really define that is cabin forward and/or aisle or window. Seen talk about adding Economy Plus section but who knows.

This is one of those things that goes away under the new model I mentioned earlier. There will be pros and cons to either model. Some will value the new model and some will lament the old model depending on your flying preferences.
Four Seasons Landscaping
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I understand what changes are proposed.

I was more wondering what they think they can come up with to make it worth it for A-List, something that they have repeatedly stated they want to do but haven't provided the slightest bit of info on how.

The people who will lose value in the way the change is currently announced are A-List and A-List Preferred. The news makes it sound like they're chasing business-class passengers from other airlines. The problem is those guys think they're too good for Southwest to begin with.
jh0400
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Four Seasons Landscaping said:

The fact you could change last minute and not be in the Bs was a huge plus. I'm not sure how that would be addressed with assigned seats.


This is the one thing I really like about flying Southwest. There have been several times I've had my day end earlier than anticipated while traveling for work, and I've changed my flight to an earlier departure from the Uber on the way to the airport. It's never been a big deal, because I would either use one of my upgraded boardings from my CC or just board after A. If they start charging for assigned seats, it gets more complicated, and at that point I may as well fly United or Delta.
Aggiemike96
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I'm boggled how they arrived at 80% surveyed would prefer assigned seating. I'm A-List Preferred and get the window exit row seat with massive legroom 90% of the flights I'm on. I book early and book Wanna Get Away as I pay for my tickets myself. I don't know how I'll ever get that seat again with changes to the seating model.

And free same day changes are HUGE. My route has 7 nonstop choices per day each way so moving back and forth has saved me time over and over again. Would be hesitant to do this if I'm going to get stuck in a middle seat between two unknown strangers.

Sadly, as I've truly enjoyed flying Southwest, I'm likely moving to United in 2025. They'll status match my Southwest status for the rest of 2024.
Jock 07
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Just curious, what status level are they giving you? Hope a bunch of SWA jumpers don't dilute the UAL status.
Aggiemike96
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I haven't officially matched, but seems it will be gold.

http://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/mileageplus/offers/promos/SM2024.html
TX_COWDOC
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Same here.
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one MEEN Ag
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I've noticed that southwest really isn't that much cheaper than the rest nowadays. It is nice specifically in Houston to avoid the mess that is IAH and United but that is not a value proposition that keeps a whole company afloat. I did like how SW opened a route to Hawaii, but you know that route is basically all frequent flyer miles cashing in.

Open seating was a double edged sword. If you flew just enough you could get better perks on SW than major carriers by A list boarding and sitting bulkhead. If you were basically a traveling consultant level of flying SW couldn't match other airlines perks. Preboarding was getting out of control though. Definitely a negative attractant as someone 'in a wheelchair' could parlay that into the best seat on the plane without having to pay up or be a very frequent flyer.

Airline credit cards have doubled down on tying airline profitability to credit irresponsible demographics while usually their highest profitability seats are full of people who generally know to pay their credit cards off each month. The same demographic that makes credit card rewards a huge cost drag also makes flying a huge cost drag. SW hasn't really done anything to make people pay up for nicer seats to use on top of points. There is no first class. I can't pay '$300+ points' to get a way nicer experience for the same price as normally flying.

As more and more people fly, there are is a larger contingent of people who want to be separated from cattle class. SW doesn't offer you any options.

Also, lounges suck nowadays. Anyone who had enough money in the 90s to go enjoy lounges when they were actually exclusive probably has private jet rental money now.
Gordo14
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one MEEN Ag said:

I've noticed that southwest really isn't that much cheaper than the rest nowadays. It is nice specifically in Houston to avoid the mess that is IAH and United but that is not a value proposition that keeps a whole company afloat. I did like how SW opened a route to Hawaii, but you know that route is basically all frequent flyer miles cashing in.

Open seating was a double edged sword. If you flew just enough you could get better perks on SW than major carriers by A list boarding and sitting bulkhead. If you were basically a traveling consultant level of flying SW couldn't match other airlines perks. Preboarding was getting out of control though. Definitely a negative attractant as someone 'in a wheelchair' could parlay that into the best seat on the plane without having to pay up or be a very frequent flyer.

Airline credit cards have doubled down on tying airline profitability to credit irresponsible demographics while usually their highest profitability seats are full of people who generally know to pay their credit cards off each month. The same demographic that makes credit card rewards a huge cost drag also makes flying a huge cost drag. SW hasn't really done anything to make people pay up for nicer seats to use on top of points. There is no first class. I can't pay '$300+ points' to get a way nicer experience for the same price as normally flying.

As more and more people fly, there are is a larger contingent of people who want to be separated from cattle class. SW doesn't offer you any options.

Also, lounges suck nowadays. Anyone who had enough money in the 90s to go enjoy lounges when they were actually exclusive probably has private jet rental money now.


Not all lounges suck. The Chase Sapphire lounges are fantastic.
I bleed maroon
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Gordo14 said:

one MEEN Ag said:

I've noticed that southwest really isn't that much cheaper than the rest nowadays. It is nice specifically in Houston to avoid the mess that is IAH and United but that is not a value proposition that keeps a whole company afloat. I did like how SW opened a route to Hawaii, but you know that route is basically all frequent flyer miles cashing in.

Open seating was a double edged sword. If you flew just enough you could get better perks on SW than major carriers by A list boarding and sitting bulkhead. If you were basically a traveling consultant level of flying SW couldn't match other airlines perks. Preboarding was getting out of control though. Definitely a negative attractant as someone 'in a wheelchair' could parlay that into the best seat on the plane without having to pay up or be a very frequent flyer.

Airline credit cards have doubled down on tying airline profitability to credit irresponsible demographics while usually their highest profitability seats are full of people who generally know to pay their credit cards off each month. The same demographic that makes credit card rewards a huge cost drag also makes flying a huge cost drag. SW hasn't really done anything to make people pay up for nicer seats to use on top of points. There is no first class. I can't pay '$300+ points' to get a way nicer experience for the same price as normally flying.

As more and more people fly, there are is a larger contingent of people who want to be separated from cattle class. SW doesn't offer you any options.

Also, lounges suck nowadays. Anyone who had enough money in the 90s to go enjoy lounges when they were actually exclusive probably has private jet rental money now.


Not all lounges suck. The Chase Sapphire lounges are fantastic.

By definition, both of these statements are inaccurate. Lounges DO NOT suck. They very well might be a poor value, but I've yet to find one that's worse than the immediate alternative - sitting in regular concourses (which actually doesn't bother me that much). I have been a past member of the Admirals Club, the President's Club, and the United Club, and given my current volume of travel, none of them are worth it to me, but give me that experience any day compared to the alternative.
 
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