Citing customer demand. Interesting timing as some investors demand an executive leadership overhaul!
SWA moving to assigned seating in 2025
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Last: 1 mo ago by Ozzy Osbourne
Wild. As a single traveler I preferred the open seating. Even in early B I would get an aisle seat in the first 10 rows 95% of the time.
Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2012
I preferred open seating. New management continues to erode all of what made SWA stand apart from the competition.
Flew Southwest for the first time since COVID last week. Reminded me what a dump it's become. It's a Houston metro bus in the sky. Guess they finally decided being the budget family airline wasn't a money maker or a customer satisfier. They had to do something because their old business model is broken.
"I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which have actually happened."
Mark Twain
Mark Twain
SWA doesn't stand out for the competition on anything except free bags anymore and that's being further eroded by brand CCs. They need revenue and have no where else to squeeze it. Thank COVID and Boeing for making their business model no longer sustainable. SWA used open seating to speed up boarding and get planes out and generating revenue via more turns. Now, they don't make money on those turns so they actually are hurting themselves by running more turns. This way they will have less turns but higher revenue per turn. More turns only helps if you're profitable on those routes. SWA has BIG problems.
P.H. Dexippus said:
I preferred open seating. New management continues to erode all of what made SWA stand apart from the competition.
This was to fend off an activist investing firm
Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2012
Have to admit, their management has failed to find unique ways to generate revenue. Gary Kelly rode Herbs coattails. He's no Maverick, and it doesn't seem like Bob Jordan is either. It took an investor revolt to force their hand.
On the other hand, if Boeing hadn't sheeut the bed, they wouldn't be in this situation.
They seem to focus on goofy things like Sustainable aviation fuel, but that's not something their customers care about, nor investors when it comes to the bottom line!
On the other hand, if Boeing hadn't sheeut the bed, they wouldn't be in this situation.
They seem to focus on goofy things like Sustainable aviation fuel, but that's not something their customers care about, nor investors when it comes to the bottom line!
From friends I have that work for SWA, it sounds like they will be charging more for aisle and window vs middle and stagger prices front to back.
For example if a ticket on open seating was $200 for window, middle or aisle, the new system will charge a base $200 which would assign you to a middle seat and then aisle or window would be $220. Sounds like they will also implement it for proximity to the front. So it sounds like you'll pay more for seats closer to the front and more for anything non middle. So the $200 aisles seat in row 26 may be next to a $220 window seat in row 26 with that same window seat being $250 in row 6.
For example if a ticket on open seating was $200 for window, middle or aisle, the new system will charge a base $200 which would assign you to a middle seat and then aisle or window would be $220. Sounds like they will also implement it for proximity to the front. So it sounds like you'll pay more for seats closer to the front and more for anything non middle. So the $200 aisles seat in row 26 may be next to a $220 window seat in row 26 with that same window seat being $250 in row 6.
For all intents and purposes, this change is happening because they want to move away from large families and focus more on business passengers. They aren't explicitly saying it because that's terrible business, but these new rules are there to generate revenue and drive down the number of families w children and increase the number of business passnagers.
Maybe. I'm not in that in tune with airline strategy.
But when I fly with my family I specifically avoid SWA because of open seating. It adds an unnecessary stress to traveling with your wife and kids. This change will have me actually looking at SWA routes.
But when I fly with my family I specifically avoid SWA because of open seating. It adds an unnecessary stress to traveling with your wife and kids. This change will have me actually looking at SWA routes.
agreed. Much easier for a lone business traveler to find a seat than a family of 4.
I should add: I loathe SWA and won't fly them. BUT a lot of families can't find enough available economy seats to sit everyone together without getting up charged or can't afford the baggage fees on other airlines. That's made SWA into the airline of most larger families. If you look at the boarding in like 1/2 the plane in family boarding. So, they book on SW because of the open seating and free bags and then have one family member in A boarding save seats for the rest of the family. Now they won't be able to do that and if they want to sit together in a row will have to pay the up charge for aisle vs window vs middle.
I still won't fly them but it's a good change for the business if you're an investor.
I still won't fly them but it's a good change for the business if you're an investor.
I'm someone who likes open seating. Never have had an issue getting a seat. But I usually travel alone or + 1. On the rare occasion we've gotten a bad boarding position, we just pay the $20-$30 at check in to upgrade to an A boarding position.
What I hate to see is the elimination of options. I hate searching for a fare on United or AA on Google flights only to go to the airline website and have another $50-$100 added to the fare in seat fees.
I want to be able to search for a fare and have that actually be what the ticket costs. Now that option will be essentially gone.
I listened to a podcast recently and this is most definitely a response to pressure from activist investors. They are pushing for a lot of changes to increase revenue and this one was probably the lowest hanging fruit, given that SW has built an entire marketing campaign on "bags fly free".
What I hate to see is the elimination of options. I hate searching for a fare on United or AA on Google flights only to go to the airline website and have another $50-$100 added to the fare in seat fees.
I want to be able to search for a fare and have that actually be what the ticket costs. Now that option will be essentially gone.
I listened to a podcast recently and this is most definitely a response to pressure from activist investors. They are pushing for a lot of changes to increase revenue and this one was probably the lowest hanging fruit, given that SW has built an entire marketing campaign on "bags fly free".
Amen. Just went through this with United and its quite silly.TXTransplant said:
I'm someone who likes open seating. Never have had an issue getting a seat. But I usually travel alone or + 1. On the rare occasion we've gotten a bad boarding position, we just pay the $20-$30 at check in to upgrade to an A boarding position.
What I hate to see is the elimination of options. I hate searching for a fare on United or AA in Google flights only to go to the airline website and have another $50-$100 added to the fare in seat fees.
I want to be able to search for a fare and have that actually be what the ticket costs. Now that option will be essentially gone.
I listened to a podcast recently and this is most definitely a response to pressure from activist investors. They are pushing for a lot of changes to increase revenue and this one was probably the lowest hanging fruit, given that SW has built an entire marketing campaign on "bags fly free".
Bummer, will see what A list preferred gets me in the new process. Not expecting much…..
We have the United Quest card and it's been really great. It gives everyone on the reservation 2 free checked bags and carry on. It's $250/year but gives you a $125 flight credit annually. The reason I like it is because it gives you all of the perks of booking an economy ticket for the economy saver or basic or whatever they call it now plus an extra checked bag. You don't get to pick your seat but if you're flying solo it's usually ok and you can always upgrade for a fee (ufff). That way when you search google flights and the other ones, the price you see is the price you pay. I'm with you and TX on how ANNOYING it is to see a good deal and then click bait it and see it's an extra $100-150.
Edit: you don't get the option of a flight credit if you need to change or cancel. To do that you have to upgrade the ticket to economy and then eat the upgrade cost. Sorry just wanted to add that part because it can bite you.
Edit: you don't get the option of a flight credit if you need to change or cancel. To do that you have to upgrade the ticket to economy and then eat the upgrade cost. Sorry just wanted to add that part because it can bite you.
My employer makes us fly SWA, but I love the airline and the people on the routes, so the mandatory airline is no biggie to me. SWA has gone above and beyond so many times for me, I will be a lifer customer. I never fly United and plan not to after this trip. I typically fly Korean Air, EVA or Emirates for my international trips, but nothing really fit my schedule for this last minute booking. Glad you like the airline and card, it is not for me however. United lost my business years ago and this booking is a last resort to get where I need to get to.
I flew SWA religiously for business before COVID and it was hands down the best for my needs. With A List Preferred, I could easily get the exit row window seat for extra room, or the bulkhead aisle seat if I wanted a quick exit when the plane landed. With the credit card I racked up points, drink tickets and the Companion Pass. The super flexible cancellation policy, especially with rewards points, has saved me countless times.Bayou City said:
For all intents and purposes, this change is happening because they want to move away from large families and focus more on business passengers. They aren't explicitly saying it because that's terrible business, but these new rules are there to generate revenue and drive down the number of families w children and increase the number of business passnagers.
I think the reality is that in a post-COVID/Zoom world, demand for business travel will never be what it once was.
Bird Poo said:
Have to admit, their management has failed to find unique ways to generate revenue. Gary Kelly rode Herbs coattails. He's no Maverick, and it doesn't seem like Bob Jordan is either.
When Gary Kelly became CEO in 2004, they were doing about $6 billion in revenues and flying about 53 billion passenger-miles. When he stepped down in 2022, they did $24 billion in revenues and 125 billion passenger-miles, which still wasn't fully recovered from COVID. I'd say Gary Kelly "[found] unique ways to generate revenue" over the course of 4x-ing them.
If you actually flew that much for business you'd likely be getting first class upgrades, priority seats with extra legroom, free drinks, free bags etc. anyways on another airline.P.H. Dexippus said:I flew SWA religiously for business before COVID and it was hands down the best for my needs. With A List Preferred, I could easily get the exit row window seat for extra room, or the bulkhead aisle seat if I wanted a quick exit when the plane landed. With the credit card I racked up points, drink tickets and the Companion Pass. The super flexible cancellation policy, especially with rewards points, has saved me countless times.Bayou City said:
For all intents and purposes, this change is happening because they want to move away from large families and focus more on business passengers. They aren't explicitly saying it because that's terrible business, but these new rules are there to generate revenue and drive down the number of families w children and increase the number of business passnagers.
I think the reality is that in a post-COVID/Zoom world, demand for business travel will never be what it once was.
There's no possibly reason to fly Southwest if you fly frequently for work other than proximity to airport.
P.H. Dexippus said:
New management continues to erode all of what made SWA stand apart from the competition.
meh.. makes me think of this;
Not exactly true.. route structure and 2 free bags aren't going anywhere and while they may not benefit you, they are HUGE differentiators. I'd expect a revamped fare structure too to keep fares lower than the competition but give options for those who want to pay for premium products (legroom, etc.)
TXTransplant said:
I'm someone who likes open seating. Never have had an issue getting a seat. But I usually travel alone or + 1. On the rare occasion we've gotten a bad boarding position, we just pay the $20-$30 at check in to upgrade to an A boarding position.
What I hate to see is the elimination of options. I hate searching for a fare on United or AA on Google flights only to go to the airline website and have another $50-$100 added to the fare in seat fees.
I want to be able to search for a fare and have that actually be what the ticket costs. Now that option will be essentially gone.
I listened to a podcast recently and this is most definitely a response to pressure from activist investors. They are pushing for a lot of changes to increase revenue and this one was probably the lowest hanging fruit, given that SW has built an entire marketing campaign on "bags fly free".
You you say you like open seating, so you don't care where you sit.. so then why on United are you wanting to pick your seat and complain it costs money?
Just let united select your seat.
Can you not just search economy on google? that includes a seat.
Very true. For those that live near major hubs, Southwest will look a lot like many of their offerings with less differentiation that before. However, if you live in places like Austin, Nashville, St Louis, Kansas City, etc where there isn't a hub, Southwest's schedule still offers way more non-stop options.
I think a lot is still left to be determined on how Southwest implements this. We shall see. I have a feeling that they will still try to do some stuff different to stay unique.
One big thing that this will stop is the number of people that abuse the pre-board policy. It's pretty amazing that you have have 20-30 pre-boards in wheelchairs that magically cure themselves by the time they get to their destination.
I think a lot is still left to be determined on how Southwest implements this. We shall see. I have a feeling that they will still try to do some stuff different to stay unique.
One big thing that this will stop is the number of people that abuse the pre-board policy. It's pretty amazing that you have have 20-30 pre-boards in wheelchairs that magically cure themselves by the time they get to their destination.
Yep. Google shows the lowest fares by default. Most are basic economy fares that will charge fees for carry on or checked bags.
62strat said:TXTransplant said:
I'm someone who likes open seating. Never have had an issue getting a seat. But I usually travel alone or + 1. On the rare occasion we've gotten a bad boarding position, we just pay the $20-$30 at check in to upgrade to an A boarding position.
What I hate to see is the elimination of options. I hate searching for a fare on United or AA on Google flights only to go to the airline website and have another $50-$100 added to the fare in seat fees.
I want to be able to search for a fare and have that actually be what the ticket costs. Now that option will be essentially gone.
I listened to a podcast recently and this is most definitely a response to pressure from activist investors. They are pushing for a lot of changes to increase revenue and this one was probably the lowest hanging fruit, given that SW has built an entire marketing campaign on "bags fly free".
You you say you like open seating, so you don't care where you sit.. so then why on United are you wanting to pick your seat and complain it costs money?
Just let united select your seat.
Can you not just search economy on google? that includes a seat.
Letting United select your seat is not the same as SW's open seating policy, and I prefer SW open seating 100% over United basic economy.
SW is a better option because if you check in right at the 24 hour mark, you will likely get a good enough boarding position that getting whatever type of seat you prefer isn't an issue. And if you get a bad boarding position, you can always pay $20 to upgrade to A boarding group (sometimes it's $30).
United's basic economy fare that assigns a seat also means you will be the last to board the plane and you can't bring anything more than a personal Item that fits under the seat in front of you.
Where I am, SW's cheapest fare was typically comparable to United's basic economy, which IMO is not a good product. So, yeah, it's annoying to pay a higher economy fare on United (or AA, for that matter) AND still have to pay to get a seat.
And I've seen flights lately where EVERY seat has an upcharge. So, even searching for economy pricing doesn't always work.
You can't even see what the extra seat charge is until you put in all your personal information as though you are going to purchase the ticket. That's not transparent pricing, which is overall just bad for consumers.
SWA hasn't really isn't cheap enough to put up with the b.s.
Seat assignments are good.
Seat assignments are good.
I guess none of that has ever been an issue because I'm all in with United. I have the chase united visa, and when I fly, it's with points, which always includes a seat and priority boarding, and the card gives me 2 bags.TXTransplant said:62strat said:TXTransplant said:
I'm someone who likes open seating. Never have had an issue getting a seat. But I usually travel alone or + 1. On the rare occasion we've gotten a bad boarding position, we just pay the $20-$30 at check in to upgrade to an A boarding position.
What I hate to see is the elimination of options. I hate searching for a fare on United or AA on Google flights only to go to the airline website and have another $50-$100 added to the fare in seat fees.
I want to be able to search for a fare and have that actually be what the ticket costs. Now that option will be essentially gone.
I listened to a podcast recently and this is most definitely a response to pressure from activist investors. They are pushing for a lot of changes to increase revenue and this one was probably the lowest hanging fruit, given that SW has built an entire marketing campaign on "bags fly free".
You you say you like open seating, so you don't care where you sit.. so then why on United are you wanting to pick your seat and complain it costs money?
Just let united select your seat.
Can you not just search economy on google? that includes a seat.
United's basic economy fare that assigns a seat also means you will be the last to board the plane and you can't bring anything more than a personal Item that fits under the seat in front of you.
Where I am, SW's cheapest fare was typically comparable to United's basic economy, which IMO is not a good product. So, yeah, it's annoying to pay a higher economy fare on United (or AA, for that matter) AND still have to pay to get a seat.
And I've seen flights lately where EVERY seat has an upcharge. So, even searching for economy pricing doesn't always work.
You can't even see what the extra seat charge is until you put in all your personal information as though you are going to purchase the ticket. That's not transparent pricing, which is overall just bad for consumers.
Seems like it has what you want, you just need to partner with United and forget SW. It's hard to get any sort of perks with anyone if you just use them every once in a while.
For those reasons, I've been all in with Marriott for 11 years and united for about 7.
And what's wrong with being last to board the plane? That's a perk in my opinion lol.
Even with my group 2 boarding, I typically am in United club until about 5 minutes before boarding ends. I can walk up, get on the plane without a line, and then the plane leaves shortly after. Unless you are worried about space for carry on.. I've never had an issue with that.
Any rumors as to what A-list will or will not get you on the new plans?
Same with companion pass and what benefits will the companion get when booking a flight
Same with companion pass and what benefits will the companion get when booking a flight
With these changes to SW, I may end up becoming loyal to United. Makes me cringe, but that may be where I end up.
Typically, with domestic/North American travel, I favor SW. if I don't fly them, it's because they aren't an option. And if SW isn't an option, then often United isn't either. I've flown AA a decent number of times in the last few years.
My international travel is diverse enough that I can't rely on United.
Even to Canada, United hasn't been a good option lately. WestJet usually has a better schedule and pricing to Calgary, and I could not get a decent itinerary to Montreal except on Air Canada.
Typically, with domestic/North American travel, I favor SW. if I don't fly them, it's because they aren't an option. And if SW isn't an option, then often United isn't either. I've flown AA a decent number of times in the last few years.
My international travel is diverse enough that I can't rely on United.
Even to Canada, United hasn't been a good option lately. WestJet usually has a better schedule and pricing to Calgary, and I could not get a decent itinerary to Montreal except on Air Canada.
Haven't heard specifics there yet but SWA will be desperate to keep its loyal customer base. I'd expect some very favorable policies for A-List, A-List Preferred and Companion Pass folks.
I haven't traveled for work in 9 years.. so it's personal/family only
This year family to cancun and cabo, and personal to LA
Last year family to cancun, and nashville, personal to dallas and wichita
so not much.
I've built up a bank of points so that I always have 100k-200k+, so I rarely am paying $ for the flight, I do reward flights, which is the economy level, plus the club card which has the club access, 4 free bags for family, priority boarding and bags.
This year family to cancun and cabo, and personal to LA
Last year family to cancun, and nashville, personal to dallas and wichita
so not much.
I've built up a bank of points so that I always have 100k-200k+, so I rarely am paying $ for the flight, I do reward flights, which is the economy level, plus the club card which has the club access, 4 free bags for family, priority boarding and bags.
I typically fly SW due to my preference for flying out of HOU if at all possible. IAH is a headache that I look to avoid if I can. My team oversees our corporate travel program, so I get complimentary A List on SW and Gold on United, but I still look to avoid United and IAH if I can. I'm interested to see what this means for SW loyalty programs and plane configurations. From a legroom perspective, SW is ahead of economy on UA or AA with AA being by far the most uncomfortable economy seat I've experienced.
AgOutsideAustin said:
Bummer, will see what A list preferred gets me in the new process. Not expecting much…..
Exactly. Without open seating they are just another airline.
I fly SWA exclusively when possible for work. This is a terrible change.
If they match their competitors, I bet A list will get free access to assigned seats in the premium leg room areas. Can't imagine them not doing that when status on legacy airlines give the same thing.
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