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TexasStone
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In reply to FrioAg 00 • 9:50p, 3/7/24
FrioAg 00 said:
I enjoy updating my financial statements each morning. Sometimes that's only 3-4 minutes if I'm just updating the balances. Sometimes longer if I've made a significant financial decision, purchase or change. But it's sort of an excersize in focus and discipline.

It also helps me manage the stress of my job and my life. It's a great reminder that (1) it's worth it and provides me and my descendants a lot of value (2) I can walk away if I wanted to. Both factors take the edge off of sometimes stressful negotiations or other responsibilities.

On my balance sheet tab - I also keep a column that calculates what the value of equity investments would be if today's market matched whatever the all time high was. When markets are down this column is helpful as a long term investor to stay calm and realize that I'm not planning to liquidate any of those funds for a long long time


Nice, I really like the all time high idea
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EliteZags
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10:25p, 3/7/24
AG
has anyone taken Aggie rings into account in net worth?

given it's technically a (small) appreciating commodity (though that most likely would never sell), would you ballpark a standard 10K men's ring based on gold content ~$1K? that's a full share of NVDA
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Ag92NGranbury
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In reply to EliteZags • 10:43p, 3/7/24
AG
I make it a rule to not value things that I would never sell…

You know… Aggie Ring, heirlooms, wife, possibly kids.
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Fredd
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In reply to Ag92NGranbury • 7:51a, 3/8/24
AG
Ag92NGranbury said:
I make it a rule to not value things that I would never sell…

You know… Aggie Ring, heirlooms, wife, possibly kids.
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62strat
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8:26a, 3/8/24
AG
Along with things like cars.
Unless it's one that is holding/appreciating in value.
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Kansas Kid
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In reply to Ag92NGranbury • 8:36a, 3/8/24
Ag92NGranbury said:
I make it a rule to not value things that I would never sell…

You know… Aggie Ring, heirlooms, wife, possibly kids.

Just admit it, the kids are a matter of price.
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infinity ag
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9:10a, 3/8/24
I have realized that the only way for me to get wealth and have a good retirement is through investing. I have not been successful in my career in terms of hitting it big (I know it is relative). On the other hand, I have been debt free since 2018 and am paying my kid's college right now, so that also makes me feel good. All set to pay the other kid's college coming up in a few years.

My goal is to retire at 60 with a net worth (all investments + bank accounts + house) being $15M to $20M.

How? Not sure, but I have been more successful in my investing than in my career so I think I can figure it out.

A million dollars now is not like what how the movies portrayed it in the 60s.
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QBCade
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In reply to infinity ag • 10:07a, 3/8/24
AG
infinity ag said:
I have realized that the only way for me to get wealth and have a good retirement is through investing. I have not been successful in my career in terms of hitting it big (I know it is relative). On the other hand, I have been debt free since 2018 and am paying my kid's college right now, so that also makes me feel good. All set to pay the other kid's college coming up in a few years.

My goal is to retire at 60 with a net worth (all investments + bank accounts + house) being $15M to $20M.

How? Not sure, but I have been more successful in my investing than in my career so I think I can figure it out.

A million dollars now is not like what how the movies portrayed it in the 60s.


$1M in 1960 is ~ = to $10M today, hence the difference in portrayal.

Still a good milestone today, but obviously not as much purchasing power. I'm sure this isn't a surprise
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infinity ag
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In reply to QBCade • 11:17a, 3/8/24
QBCade said:
infinity ag said:
I have realized that the only way for me to get wealth and have a good retirement is through investing. I have not been successful in my career in terms of hitting it big (I know it is relative). On the other hand, I have been debt free since 2018 and am paying my kid's college right now, so that also makes me feel good. All set to pay the other kid's college coming up in a few years.

My goal is to retire at 60 with a net worth (all investments + bank accounts + house) being $15M to $20M.

How? Not sure, but I have been more successful in my investing than in my career so I think I can figure it out.

A million dollars now is not like what how the movies portrayed it in the 60s.


$1M in 1960 is ~ = to $10M today, hence the difference in portrayal.

Still a good milestone today, but obviously not as much purchasing power. I'm sure this isn't a surprise

Yes, absolutely, it is a good significant milestone to shoot for. I was extremely thrilled when I crossed that some years ago, no denying that.
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FrioAg 00
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12:12p, 3/8/24
AG

I feel like you're either leaving off a big part of the story like an inherited fund, a once in lifetime windfall, or your definition of an underwhelming career is very different than mine.

If you aren't north of $5-10m already you are expecting a very rare investment return looking forward to get to $15-20 in the next decade or so. And if you have indeed accumulated $5-10m it seems odd you'd use terms like you have related to your career, or becoming debt free just 6 years ago, etc.


None of my business, just can't quite make sense of what you've shared so far.
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infinity ag
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In reply to FrioAg 00 • 2:54p, 3/8/24
FrioAg 00 said:

I feel like you're either leaving off a big part of the story like an inherited fund, a once in lifetime windfall, or your definition of an underwhelming career is very different than mine.

If you aren't north of $5-10m already you are expecting a very rare investment return looking forward to get to $15-20 in the next decade or so. And if you have indeed accumulated $5-10m it seems odd you'd use terms like you have related to your career, or becoming debt free just 6 years ago, etc.


None of my business, just can't quite make sense of what you've shared so far.

No big inheritance. My dad did buy me some shares in my name in the 70s that became worth about $50-70k in the mid 90s that I used as seed for investing. I never spent any of it. I grew that a lot over the past 25 years. I started investing in Nov 1999.

I am a saver, I don't take loans and I don't overspend. My wife sometimes grumbles that I obsess over "small purchases". I tell her I obsess over everything.

My career has been good, don't get me wrong. I have 3 degrees, of which one Engg degree is from A&M. Salary has been good and I broke through the 6 figs mark about 15 years ago. If I complain about my career, it is just because it has not met MY personal expectations. I need to GTFO from my city and go to an area where jobs in my field (high tech) are in plenty. Like the Bay Area, Seattle or Austin. Completely my fault that I messed up.

But I am a survivor.

My salary and my wife's salaries are a somewhat smaller percentage of the net household "revenue" (usually). This is a good sign which means I depend more on myself and less on a company to pay my bills.

Debt wise, my dad funded my undergrad so I did not have any debt to begin with. I just had a home mortgage that I paid off quickly (in 8 years) by paying towards principal when I could. I want the same for my son so I am paying all his tuition. He is doing Computer Science in a Top 5 school and focusing on that and not earning at this point.

I feel people make a big deal about this because they spend more than they can afford and think it is okay. I never did that. Save money, pay down debt and invest passively.
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EliteZags
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In reply to infinity ag • 3:26p, 3/8/24
AG
think the question is why tie yourself to working til 60 if you'll likely approach 8 figures in the 50s and likely a portfolio that out-earns your salary well before

living phat in my 60s doesn't sound as appealing to me
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infinity ag
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In reply to EliteZags • 4:19p, 3/8/24
EliteZags said:
think the question is why tie yourself to working til 60 if you'll likely approach 8 figures in the 50s and likely a portfolio that out-earns your salary well before

living phat in my 60s doesn't sound as appealing to me

Good question... the reasons are:

  • I want to advance a bit in my career and feel fulfilled. I have done well in most areas of life that matter to me except this one. I don't want to be 75 and have regrets.
  • I am very active and like to do things. I cannot just spend 9-5 every week day with not much to do whether I can afford it or not.
  • On the social side, if I decide to permanently stop working, it does not work well socially in the community with too many nosy people. None of my friends have retired. At this point, retiring seems like one's life is over and just a wait until death arrives.


It's been a long struggle to get to this point, but I feel I am finally where I don't have to stay in bad jobs with bad bosses and toxic workplaces just to get a paycheck. I have had to in the past, several times and it was miserable. I am currently "between jobs" and while I feel some pressure and sometimes get sad/depressed/angry, it is not because of finances. That is a big thing.
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to infinity ag • 6:21p, 3/8/24
AG
I'm not following.

You're so active that a lack of job would give you nothing to do from 9-5? That's not how active works.

I don't have time for a job. That's my drive to retire early. I need more time to hang with my daughter, ski, MTB and travel.
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ravingfans
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In reply to Ag92NGranbury • 7:26p, 3/8/24
AG
Ag92NGranbury said:
I make it a rule to not value things that I would never sell…

You know… Aggie Ring, heirlooms, wife, possibly kids.
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infinity ag
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In reply to RangerRick9211 • 10:03a, 3/9/24
nm
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Petrino1
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In reply to EliteZags • 10:41a, 3/9/24
EliteZags said:
think the question is why tie yourself to working til 60 if you'll likely approach 8 figures in the 50s and likely a portfolio that out-earns your salary well before

living phat in my 60s doesn't sound as appealing to me


Some people just like working and making money, even if they don't need to work. It's as simple as that. Some people might even like their jobs and contributing to society. Look at all of the billionaires, most of them are still working, owning companies, starting new businesses, angel investing etc. They like doing it, it brings them joy.

I'm at the point where I could probably FIRE in my mid 40's and just live off investments. I could definitely see myself quitting the corporate rat race but still working in some capacity: part time, consulting, short term contracts, side gigs, starting a business, real estate, angel investing etc. I've always enjoyed working for myself, and see no reason to stop making money just because I have enough money.

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infinity ag
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In reply to Petrino1 • 11:26a, 3/9/24
Petrino1 said:
EliteZags said:
think the question is why tie yourself to working til 60 if you'll likely approach 8 figures in the 50s and likely a portfolio that out-earns your salary well before

living phat in my 60s doesn't sound as appealing to me


Some people just like working and making money, even if they don't need to work. It's as simple as that. Some people might even like their jobs and contributing to society. Look at all of the billionaires, most of them are still working, owning companies, starting new businesses, angel investing etc. They like doing it, it brings them joy.

I'm at the point where I could probably FIRE in my mid 40's and just live off investments. I could definitely see myself quitting the corporate rat race but still working in some capacity: part time, consulting, short term contracts, side gigs, starting a business, real estate, angel investing etc. I've always enjoyed working for myself, and see no reason to stop making money just because I have enough money.


Exactly. I don't know why some folks here find that hard to understand. They assume everyone hates their line of work or that they have made poor financial decisions. I love my line, though I have hated some companies and some bosses.

I didn't know what FIRE meant so had to google. Am a little older than you are and am in a similar situation. Kids in or going to college so responsibilities are fewer so I can focus on myself for once.
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QBCade
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In reply to Petrino1 • 1:56p, 3/9/24
AG
Petrino1 said:
EliteZags said:
think the question is why tie yourself to working til 60 if you'll likely approach 8 figures in the 50s and likely a portfolio that out-earns your salary well before

living phat in my 60s doesn't sound as appealing to me


Some people just like working and making money, even if they don't need to work. It's as simple as that. Some people might even like their jobs and contributing to society. Look at all of the billionaires, most of them are still working, owning companies, starting new businesses, angel investing etc. They like doing it, it brings them joy.

I'm at the point where I could probably FIRE in my mid 40's and just live off investments. I could definitely see myself quitting the corporate rat race but still working in some capacity: part time, consulting, short term contracts, side gigs, starting a business, real estate, angel investing etc. I've always enjoyed working for myself, and see no reason to stop making money just because I have enough money.



FIRE sounded like a good thing, but 1 I like some v nice/expensive things like wine & vacations/sporting events
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aggiesundevil4
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In reply to QBCade • 2:19p, 3/9/24
AG
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
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62strat
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In reply to aggiesundevil4 • 3:36p, 3/9/24
AG
aggiesundevil4 said:
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
I always think of the younger couples that sell the house to 'not be tied down to a mortgage' and buy a tiny home that they plop on their parents land or live in the Rv that they home school in.

Sweet financial independence!

Related; my dad retired at 60. Then back to work a few years later. Brother and I inquired; what gives dad, we know you've done really well.

Dad: your mom and I like nice stuff!
The thousand dollar cases of wine club shipped often.
The concierge level on the cruise, the white glove transportation add on. The typical 7 day trip turning into 20 day every time, to New Zealand and Iceland, etc etc.

So he worked until almost 70. Now he's confident they can have all that stuff and not run out lol.

I think he underestimated the growth of his nestegg in his 60s.. 2011-2021. He would have been fine.

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Petrino1
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In reply to QBCade • 3:41p, 3/9/24
QBCade said:
Petrino1 said:
EliteZags said:
think the question is why tie yourself to working til 60 if you'll likely approach 8 figures in the 50s and likely a portfolio that out-earns your salary well before

living phat in my 60s doesn't sound as appealing to me


Some people just like working and making money, even if they don't need to work. It's as simple as that. Some people might even like their jobs and contributing to society. Look at all of the billionaires, most of them are still working, owning companies, starting new businesses, angel investing etc. They like doing it, it brings them joy.

I'm at the point where I could probably FIRE in my mid 40's and just live off investments. I could definitely see myself quitting the corporate rat race but still working in some capacity: part time, consulting, short term contracts, side gigs, starting a business, real estate, angel investing etc. I've always enjoyed working for myself, and see no reason to stop making money just because I have enough money.



FIRE sounded like a good thing, but 1 I like some v nice/expensive things like wine & vacations/sporting events
I never thought of FIRE as living a very cheap and frugal retirement, I just saw it as having enough money to retire early. I wouldnt retire early if I had to count every penny and couldnt live life the way I wanted because of expenses.
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Kansas Kid
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In reply to aggiesundevil4 • 3:42p, 3/9/24
aggiesundevil4 said:
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
I agree with you. The other issue I have with FIRE is what are you going to do with your time if you are retired at 35-45? I bet there will be a study that shows those that do either die early or go back to work after a few years. We weren't intended to be retired for 40+ years. A number of studies have shown people decline mentally and physically after they retire.
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Aggie71013
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In reply to aggiesundevil4 • 4:09p, 3/9/24
AG
FIRE doesn't mean you have to be lazy. You may want to continue working, but pick a less stressful profession or one based on a passion. You could have a portfolio of rental properties you manage. You could volunteer instead of working a corporate job. You could be a consultant to work as often / as much as you want. You may want to travel more than 4 to 6 weeks of vacation a corporate job allows.

The key is to be financially independent to enable you do do whatever your heart desires. Some people may choose to sit at home and mentally decline, but that doesn't mean you have to do that. It's a personal choice just like continuing to work.
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Hoyt Ag
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4:22p, 3/9/24
AG
I have a good friend that is 59yo and has been FIRE for 7-9 years or so. I am not real clear on his background in detail but what I do know is he was a penny pincher his whole life and had no debt when he quit his career. He is the guy driving the 20yo Civic to work but makes 100K+, wears Goodwill clothes, etc. Anyways, in the years he has been FIRE, He took 1 year to travel to 30 countries, he has taken a year to teach English in Southeast Asia, 1 year mission work in Africa and is currently working in Germany for a rotating equipment company because Germany was a bucket list place to be in. I asked him once, what is the endgame? His response was simple, he said " I do not want to be tied down to a job and get a few measly weeks off a year. I want to do what I want but I do not require more than a bed and lock on my door wherever I am. I live simple, I travel simple and I want to do good in this world."

I am fully aware of this being one example of a FIRE person. But he is an incredible friend and such an interesting guy. We are meeting up with out group of friends in October to spend 3 weeks diving together. Of the 25 going, most work part time as my friend does. They have good investments but none of them are wealthy or come from money. They just made good life decisions and choose a simpler life. I am still 5-7 years out but I am getting there and know what I want out of life. I have had the fancy lifestyle but I prefer the memories and a simpler one.

I guess my point is this. Some like luxury and the fine things in life. I know I got caught up in it. I grew up pretty meager, then did well and got caught up in the money and 'things'. But now, I make the same money and focus on experiences and memories. I know I don't need a lot to live on and I wont work forever either. We are all different and there is no one size fits all approach.
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Charismatic Megafauna
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4:25p, 3/9/24
AG
I like the fire definition/tenet of: build the life you want, then save for it. Unfortunately you guys are right, it's overtaken by 20somethings who decide they don't want to work anymore and are never going to have kids, so they had to come up with fatfire, which captures the "retire early comfortably" crowd but also the "my tech company got bought and i have 100 million dollars, what should i do now" crowd
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mavsfan4ever
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In reply to Kansas Kid • 9:05p, 3/9/24
AG
Kansas Kid said:
aggiesundevil4 said:
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
I agree with you. The other issue I have with FIRE is what are you going to do with your time if you are retired at 35-45? I bet there will be a study that shows those that do either die early or go back to work after a few years. We weren't intended to be retired for 40+ years. A number of studies have shown people decline mentally and physically after they retire.


Counterpoint (and this is not directed at you personally, moreso all of the people that say they wouldn't have anything to do if they retired): if your life is so boring that you can't think of anything fun to do without work, then I feel very sad for you and you should probably work until you are 75. You (not you personally) messed up somewhere along the way.
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Kansas Kid
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In reply to mavsfan4ever • 9:36p, 3/9/24
mavsfan4ever said:
Kansas Kid said:
aggiesundevil4 said:
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
I agree with you. The other issue I have with FIRE is what are you going to do with your time if you are retired at 35-45? I bet there will be a study that shows those that do either die early or go back to work after a few years. We weren't intended to be retired for 40+ years. A number of studies have shown people decline mentally and physically after they retire.


Counterpoint (and this is not directed at you personally, moreso all of the people that say they wouldn't have anything to do if they retired): if your life is so boring that you can't think of anything fun to do without work, then I feel very sad for you and you should probably work until you are 75. You (not you personally) messed up somewhere along the way.

I think a lot of people can come up with fun things to do for 20-40 hours per week. Maybe more but there are only so many rounds of golf to play, gardens to tend, tennis to play, days to travel each year, etc.

The people I see that are "retired" that are happiest are doing a lot of volunteer work, consulting, etc which is work that pays less, if at all, but gives them a sense of purpose and a reason to get up each morning while also giving a great chance to socialize. For me personally, retirement will involve a lot of volunteering and part time work along with more fun activities than I can do today.
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Kansas Kid • 9:51p, 3/9/24
AG
Kansas Kid said:
mavsfan4ever said:
Kansas Kid said:
aggiesundevil4 said:
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
I agree with you. The other issue I have with FIRE is what are you going to do with your time if you are retired at 35-45? I bet there will be a study that shows those that do either die early or go back to work after a few years. We weren't intended to be retired for 40+ years. A number of studies have shown people decline mentally and physically after they retire.


Counterpoint (and this is not directed at you personally, moreso all of the people that say they wouldn't have anything to do if they retired): if your life is so boring that you can't think of anything fun to do without work, then I feel very sad for you and you should probably work until you are 75. You (not you personally) messed up somewhere along the way.

I think a lot of people can come up with fun things to do for 20-40 hours per week. Maybe more but there are only so many rounds of golf to play, gardens to tend, tennis to play, days to travel each year, etc.

The people I see that are "retired" that are happiest are doing a lot of volunteer work, consulting, etc which is work that pays less, if at all, but gives them a sense of purpose and a reason to get up each morning while also giving a great chance to socialize. For me personally, retirement will involve a lot of volunteering and part time work along with more fun activities than I can do today.


First, quote above re: RE folks die earlier I think is very wrong.

I'm solidly middle management and the stress, diet and weight issues around me are rampant. I'm very into fitness and will be more so in RE; I don't see how more time to be healthy means I'll die earlier than the homie that remains a screen slave in a chair for 8 hours a day losing hair about meaningless corporate targets for another two decades.

As for your so many rounds of golf, so many gardens, etc. There are only so many Monday fire drills, so many SteerCos, so many business development opps. That's all old hat 14 years into my career. I'm still stoked to ski every weekend in winter; MTB/gravel ride most days and weekends in Summer. More so with my daughter now.

If any of that does become boring, I'll find a new hobby, or not. This ultimately boils down to time autonomy.
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GarlandAg2012
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In reply to QBCade • 10:06p, 3/9/24
AG
You should check out FatFIRE. You can still be financially independent and retire early and have plenty of money for fun things.

A lot of people approach FIRE with a cost cutting mentality, some take it to the extreme with LeanFIRE. I agree that living so frugally that you can retire with a few hundred grand in savings is not appealing, but there are options for every personality.
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CS78
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10:49p, 3/9/24
A lot of it comes down to personality types. Some people just need structure. Their motivation for building wealth might be completely different than those that yearn for freedom.
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Gordo14
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11:48p, 3/9/24
I think my goal is to retire the day my last kid goes to college or at least very close. And I don't have any kids yet so that might be awhile. So hopefully mid 50s. Feel very confident about us achieving that goal with time ans consistency.
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AgsMyDude
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In reply to GarlandAg2012 • 7:30a, 3/10/24
AG
Sorry but I'm going to YugeFatFIRE
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62strat
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In reply to Kansas Kid • 11:35a, 3/10/24
AG
Kansas Kid said:
aggiesundevil4 said:
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
I agree with you. The other issue I have with FIRE is what are you going to do with your time if you are retired at 35-45? I bet there will be a study that shows those that do either die early or go back to work after a few years.

If only we had a huge group of people that all retire before 40.

Cough athletes cough.
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bagger05
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In reply to 62strat • 11:43a, 3/10/24
AG
62strat said:
Kansas Kid said:
aggiesundevil4 said:
Agree Cade, FIRE is the path of lazy nihilists that don't care about having the money for great life experiences, world travel, and passing something valuable onto children and grandchildren. I know I'd rather live well than live cheap just to avoid having a job in my 50s, and some people love the FIRE concept but it's not for me.
I agree with you. The other issue I have with FIRE is what are you going to do with your time if you are retired at 35-45? I bet there will be a study that shows those that do either die early or go back to work after a few years.

If only we had a huge group of people that all retire before 40.

Cough athletes cough.

Would be interesting to look at the data.

Even a lot of those who have enough money to hang it up get into coaching, charity, media, or start businesses.

I would bet against a big percentage doing nothing but traveling, gardening, playing golf, and hanging out with their grandkids.
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