I Am A Critic said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Considering our debt load and the severe volatility of geopolitics right now, we are gong to have to pay the piper. $35T in debt and climbing at a pace of $3-4T per year is unsustainable. Our debt service is now climbing higher than our biggest ticket items. It's already higher than defense spending.

The question will always be when will this happen? Who knows but we are closer than to it than ever before. We all just assume the music won't stop while we are fully exposed. In my lifetime, we've gone from <$1T in debt to $35T. The former was manageable through fiat money policy. The latter is not.

It's scary but there is also nothing to be really don't about it other than working a risk mitigation plan to limit your losses as much as possible. Even that is almost pointless in a world where our Debt finally comes calling.

It's going to be catastrophic and make the Depression look like child's play.

Good luck to all!

---

With the money Elon and Vivek are about to save taxpayers, deficit spending will be greatly reduced and the debt can start to get paid down.

---

Frankly, this is wishful thinking. I want this to be true. Trust me.

However, the only thing they will touch is Discretionary spending. That leaves out SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and Defense. These plus debt service is over 2/3.

The 1/3 they can touch will be fought tooth and nail by Congress and the bureaucracy. They will have to find somewhere around $1.5T in annual discretionary spend just to break even. No way in hell that happens.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that so we don't pollute the thread intent.

Easiest way today is just to max out 401K. I'm now 48 and started doing maxing it out when I started working corporate at 22. My 401K balance is just over $2.2M now. Govt gives you a huge bonus for saving for retirement, take it. If you're self employed, you can blow this number away.

Edit - this is just for me as wife didn't work long to contribute to 401k. She only has about $200k that I'm not counting in the $2.2M. Just shows what time + tax free growth does.

El Chupacabra said:

---

I can assure you that our income is on the lower end of this board's (especially if I don't get a 2025 bonus as they are saying might happen).

What I've we've been doing for awhile:

Max Roth - 7k x 2, 14k/year
Max (or close) 401/403 - 22k x 2, 44k/year
Max (or close) HSA - 7k/year
1k/mo into 529 plans 12k/year

I'm 'spending' 75-80k/year before I'm spending anything else.

---

you really think most people on this board have a salary to support saving $80k?

That's literally almost all of my salary lol.


You add in basic living expenses of $3500/yr, that's $125k or so. Not exactly lower income.

62strat said:

---

El Chupacabra said:

---

I can assure you that our income is on the lower end of this board's (especially if I don't get a 2025 bonus as they are saying might happen).

What I've we've been doing for awhile:

Max Roth - 7k x 2, 14k/year
Max (or close) 401/403 - 22k x 2, 44k/year
Max (or close) HSA - 7k/year
1k/mo into 529 plans 12k/year

I'm 'spending' 75-80k/year before I'm spending anything else.

---

you really think most people on this board have a salary to support saving $80k?

That's literally almost all of my salary lol.


You add in basic living expenses of $3500/yr, that's $125k or so. Not exactly lower income.

---

Saving 80k/year may be out of touch. But it's not as out of touch as living expenses being 35k a year.

that's less than we spend on food

QBCade said:

---

Easiest way today is just to max out 401K. I'm now 48 and started doing maxing it out when I started working corporate at 22. My 401K balance is just over $2.2M now. Govt gives you a huge bonus for saving for retirement, take it. If you're self employed, you can blow this number away.

Edit - this is just for me as wife didn't work long to contribute to 401k. She only has about $200k that I'm not counting in the $2.2M. Just shows what time + tax free growth does.

---

This. My wife worked for big oil. Always maxed and then there was the matching, and then we took the lump sum pension that we rolled into her IRA. I had a 403b and my TRS annuity. She has a hobby business - long arm quilting. I pick and choose sub jobs a few days a month. Making more in retirement then we did working. Life is great.
BTHOworking.

62strat said:

---

Howdy Dammit said:

---

62strat said:

---

El Chupacabra said:

---

I can assure you that our income is on the lower end of this board's (especially if I don't get a 2025 bonus as they are saying might happen).

What I've we've been doing for awhile:

Max Roth - 7k x 2, 14k/year
Max (or close) 401/403 - 22k x 2, 44k/year
Max (or close) HSA - 7k/year
1k/mo into 529 plans 12k/year

I'm 'spending' 75-80k/year before I'm spending anything else.

---

you really think most people on this board have a salary to support saving $80k?

That's literally almost all of my salary lol.


You add in basic living expenses of $3500/yr, that's $125k or so. Not exactly lower income.

---

Saving 80k/year may be out of touch. But it's not as out of touch as living expenses being 35k a year.

---

check my math and find my error

$3500/mo.

Maybe not realistic if you bought a house in the last 5-10 years or so. But my mortgage is about $2200. $1300 for other necessities is pretty realistic.

---

$1300 for one guy maybe, for a family, I don't know how.

LMCane said:

---

I'm in the Big Apple this weekend meeting cousins from Scottsdale- cousin who is a year older than me 55/54 is a successful chiropractor

we are discussing getting a property because I brought up that I was looking at land near Lancaster PA / Parkesburg and that is to the west of Philly in amish country chester county

does it make sense to go in on a rental property together we can use over the years with the family ?

or does every time someone enters financial deal with relatives it is a nightmare?

I have $1.3 saved up and he likely around 2.

but I'm single no kids (starter marriage) and he is married three kids

---

In your situation, I think it just makes more sense to rent air bnb/VRBO whenever your family gets together. Dealing with a rental property, with a family member, in another state, just sounds like an unnecessary headache. Lots of things that can go wrong here.

LMCane said:

---

I'm in the Big Apple this weekend meeting cousins from Scottsdale- cousin who is a year older than me 55/54 is a successful chiropractor

we are discussing getting a property because I brought up that I was looking at land near Lancaster PA / Parkesburg and that is to the west of Philly in amish country chester county

does it make sense to go in on a rental property together we can use over the years with the family ?

or does every time someone enters financial deal with relatives it is a nightmare?

I have $1.3 saved up and he likely around 2.

but I'm single no kids (starter marriage) and he is married three kids

---

Real Eatate board or different B&I thread.

sherminator said:

---

62strat said:

---

Howdy Dammit said:

---

62strat said:

---

El Chupacabra said:

---

I can assure you that our income is on the lower end of this board's (especially if I don't get a 2025 bonus as they are saying might happen).

What I've we've been doing for awhile:

Max Roth - 7k x 2, 14k/year
Max (or close) 401/403 - 22k x 2, 44k/year
Max (or close) HSA - 7k/year
1k/mo into 529 plans 12k/year

I'm 'spending' 75-80k/year before I'm spending anything else.

---

you really think most people on this board have a salary to support saving $80k?

That's literally almost all of my salary lol.


You add in basic living expenses of $3500/yr, that's $125k or so. Not exactly lower income.

---

Saving 80k/year may be out of touch. But it's not as out of touch as living expenses being 35k a year.

---

check my math and find my error

$3500/mo.

Maybe not realistic if you bought a house in the last 5-10 years or so. But my mortgage is about $2200. $1300 for other necessities is pretty realistic.

---

$1300 for one guy maybe, for a family, I don't know how.

---

you and others questioning my comment are only proving my point. Saving $80k plus min expenses of… ok not $3500 month, let's say $5k a month, now we're at $160k ish pre tax for basic expenses and savings, so income is probably $250k if not much more.

That is by no means 'lower end' of this board as claimed.

Saw this image on LinkedIn. It sparked a conversation about wealth that I've seen on this thread.

My brain is wired this way. I don't like spending money because I can't invest it. But, as my kids are getting older and headed off to college, I'm regretting not spending more on experiences with them. Thankfully, I'm in a position now to do that and will try to make up for lost time.

Read the Millionaire Next Door book by Dr Thomas Stanley. Then do what he says. To sum it up he says if you want to become a millionaire don't live like one.

https://themillionairenextdoor.com/

I struggled with this. Reading Die with Zero helped.

There will be a lot of us that die with too many assets

You will spend less as you get old


I think there has to be balance

I'm not a fire guy like a lot of you

I think if you save 20% you are doing amazing and you should feel free to spend some

Petrino1 said:

---

Question for the millionaires on this board. At what level of net worth do you allow yourself to splurge on stuff like business class seats, nicer cars, nicer vacations etc? When I reached a million I decided that I would always try and upgrade to at least exit row or premium economy class on planes, having lots of airline miles helps as well.

Im still frugal with most things, but I allow myself to splurge more on nice food, alcohol, trips etc as long as I still meet my savings and investment goals every month.

---

A lot depends on what is really important to you as opposed to the things you can just because you have the money.

We love eating out at restaurants. I rarely feel like a night out having a meal is wasted. We'll splurge on fancy places every so often, but are also mindful of where a decent bargain can be had at middle of the road places (We split fajitas at Gloria's, get a queso and two soft drinks and we're still out the door at $35 with leftovers because I can inhale their bean dip and salsa).

But driving the newest and nicest car has never appealed much to me. We're not driving beaters, but my Tahoe is a 2017 and I'll drive it another 3 years at least because I like the way it looks and its great for road trips.

If I'm taking a 2 hour flight? I don't mind being "cattle-called" if it saves me $100. But we're talking about Japan and I'll spend the extra to fly business class there.

We're dropping YouTube TV because of a $20/month increase, but I've got a 5 figure arcade cabinet in the garage.

I think there's some that get caught up in living a "lifestyle" (bigger house, nicer car, status on airlines, etc...), but that's different than spending a lot of money on certain things you really enjoy.

Petrino1 said:

---

Question for the millionaires on this board. At what level of net worth do you allow yourself to splurge on stuff like business class seats, nicer cars, nicer vacations etc? When I reached a million I decided that I would always try and upgrade to at least exit row or premium economy class on planes, having lots of airline miles helps as well.

Im still frugal with most things, but I allow myself to splurge more on nice food, alcohol, trips etc as long as I still meet my savings and investment goals every month.

---

The easy answer is when you have the discretionary funds and feel comfortable. Not that easy though. My problem is that we lived a savings lifestyle for over 30 years. Really hard for me to break it and spend a little on really nice things. My wife was absolutely shocked when I booked first class plane tickets on an upcoming trip.

Treat your savings like an obligation, meaning decide how much you're saving and pay that first like it's non-negotiable.

What's left is there to be spent.

Petrino1 said:

---

Question for the millionaires on this board. At what level of net worth do you allow yourself to splurge on stuff like business class seats, nicer cars, nicer vacations etc? When I reached a million I decided that I would always try and upgrade to at least exit row or premium economy class on planes, having lots of airline miles helps as well.

---

Great question. For me, it was a combination of NW and age. Influenced by Millionaire Next Door (MND) and Die with Zero (DWZ), I started 'splurging' on experiences once NW hit low 7 digits and I turned 45. Some anecdotal data points:

- I had a total of 4 cars over 25 years (like MND) and have had the same Tahoe since '09 that I've modified extensively as a hobby. Like DWZ, at 45 I then bought an M2 as a second fun car, traded for a GT4 in '19 (made $35k on that car when I sold it!!), then bought another GT4 in '22 and have kept that one. I bought a new X3M Comp when they first came out in '20, then traded it for another LCI X3M Comp in '22, then sold it in early '24. So….4 cars in 25 years, then 5 (expensive & fun) cars in the past 8 years. I'm down to the '09 Tahoe and the '16 GT4, doubt I ever sell either one of them.

- I'm a million miler on UA (going back to CO days from IAH) and 1K every year on biz travel, so have tons of points. I play expert mode on UA's website and almost always buy B our Y to get auto-upgrade to first domestically. I make 1-2 trips internationally (not including Mexico) a year and always buy biz class seats.

- Definitely taking 'trips of a lifetime' since ~2016/turned 45, but my version of these are sometimes inexpensive and more about the time & experience than anything. Rafting/camping down the Snake River in Idaho for a week, hiking/camping in Glacier NP for a week, mountain biking in Ketchum, ID for a week, a week on a catered catamaran in BVI for a week (that was indeed expensive), Cabo for fishing in prime season (fishing expensive, everything else cheap), etc. My wife and I are investing in an Airstream this summer and will base it out of Heber City, UT going forward for camping trips all around the western US and Canada. Why Heber City? Well, that leads me to the biggest splurge…

- A townhouse in Park City, UT. I house hunted with a realtor for almost 10 years and finally found a great place at a great price in May '23. It has been awesome and has already appreciated beyond my wildest expectations. We spent about 13 weeks total there in '23 and '24, planning on about the same in 25. Long-term, we are planning to spend ~6 months a year based there upon retirement in mid-'28. All that to say maybe part splurge/part investment.

Petrino1 said:

---

Question for the millionaires on this board. At what level of net worth do you allow yourself to splurge on stuff like business class seats, nicer cars, nicer vacations etc? When I reached a million I decided that I would always try and upgrade to at least exit row or premium economy class on planes, having lots of airline miles helps as well.

Im still frugal with most things, but I allow myself to splurge more on nice food, alcohol, trips etc as long as I still meet my savings and investment goals every month.

---

splurging to me doesn't really have anything to do with wealth, but rather disposable income.

If you have a million in fidelity, but a family of 4 with household income at $100k, then splurging probably might not be in the cards for much.

Our household income has doubled in about 10 years, and I don't subscribe to the 'live frugal your entire life' or dave ramsey idea.
I like to enjoy life now, not only when I'm retired. So, little by little, we splurge when we want to, regardless of what we have in fidelity.

Family trip to mexico this year, regular seats were $400 ea, first class was $600ea, so why would I not spend $800 more on a trip already costing ~$6k? Easy way to splurge, and I would have done that 10 years ago with a fraction of my net worth. Seeing my kids' faces light up when they find out we are in the front row in big comfy leather chairs is something you can't replicate when they are older.. you gotta do it now.
We splurged ~$50k last year and put in a swim spa.. a traditional inground pool just isn't in the cards in denver suburb yards, but we wanted something for the family to enjoy in summer (and we're still using it weekly in winter), so this was the answer. For an 8 and 10 year old and a few of their friends, they can splash and play and it's as close to a private pool they'll get.

We are not really frugal 'all around' by any means. Our vacation budget is $12k a year for two 7-10 day trips, and that doesn't include weekend camping trips in our trailer, several weekend local hotel trips (great wolf lodge, gaylord, breckenridge, etc) and maybe a road trip or two for 3-4 day weekends. We live in the now with our kids and want them to remember great experiences. We've checked off a dozen or so national parks with them, 4 trips to mexico, 4 trips to florida, 20ish states visited overall, and our kids are 8 and just turned 10.

The kids just about get anything they want, both play a lot of sports, and don't wear hand me down or knockoff clothing, etc.

Yet, I only spend about $10-$15 a week on lunches for work.. I'll be frugal there, because I don't mind eating a can of soup for lunch, but I didn't hesitate to buy a $80k truck when I was about 42, because I wanted to have a nice truck, and our income supported it.


In short, 'splurging' is so varied; people want difference stuff to be nice, while will be frugal with other things. And income is what drives this for me, yet some people might make more than us and have very basic things while there are def. people making less than us that have a lot much nicer things.

Talking about what you're spending your money on doesn't really answer the question. So I'll try. I'm retired and taking RMD's so there's only one way for me to make more money…the stock market. I've been retired 6 years, and have taken 6 RMD's and that has increased yearly. My liquid net worth has doubled in those 6 years. I spend what I want, buy whatever airplane seats suit me (flew biz class to London in Sep), buy crap for my kids they really should be buying themselves (3 grown girls) just BC I can, and spend about $400/month on toll roads so I don't get road rage sitting in traffic. If the market keeps rising I'll keep spending what I want to spend, no CD's for me.
In summary, stay invested. A 20% drop in the market is nothing, you don't lose shares.

I started slowly increasing my spending on the items below starting in the order they are presented once I hit my FU level where I knew I didn't have to work anymore and have continued increasing as the portfolio has increased. Now almost all increases are charity.


First, I spend on time saving because you have a fixed amount. That means having someone else do things for me that I don't enjoy that take my time. I still mow my yard but that is because I enjoy it but if I need to paint the house or repair the car, I let others do it.

Second, I agree with buying experiences. I splurge on nicer hotels (not necessarily 5* but great locations with nice amenities help). I also buy good tickets to games and events I attend because I want to have the best experience possible. I also will pay for a more VIP experience at these events because it eliminates a lot of the stress and crap you have to deal with.

I also "spend" a lot on charity to try to help others. My preference is hand up helps over hand outs because I want to teach a man to fish more than give them a fish. My handouts are Al,ost exclusively for those who have no ability to help themselves. I also like to leave a massive tip for people that I think can use it and are working their butt off to make their and their family's life better. It is great to see their reaction.