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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to YouBet • 8:55p, 2/19/24
Medaggie
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In reply to fullback44 • 9:02p, 2/19/24
You sound like me but I am 16 yrs younger. I work 4-6 dys/month just to keep social/skills active. Spend probably 10 hours on the business a month. Every other side gig is b/c I enjoy it. Most of my time is taking my 3 kids, all in club sports, travelling/practice.

My greatest regret is it took me 15 years before I stopped working to make other's more money. I could double my income in 3 years opening up another office, but the thought of not being semi retired for 3 yrs is just not worth it. Sometimes, enough is enough and more lost years just do not feel worth it.

I am saying no to many opportunities that my 35 yr old self would jump at in a heartbeat. I remember being offered the VP (right behind the CEO) position and if they went public/bought out, I may have been a baby shark tank investor. But the thought of constant travelling and being away from my 3 kids when they were 1-5 years old was not a sacrifice I wanted to take. The best decision of my life.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Cyp0111 • 9:03p, 2/19/24
AG
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.
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Aggie09Derek
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9:17p, 2/19/24
AG
https://instagr.am/p/C3izqLiPrBh
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Petrino1
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 9:34p, 2/19/24
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.
Agreed. I will reach the millionaire club later this year at age 39 (single male with no wife or kids), just from working a boring W2 six figure office job, and saving/investing aggressively for 10-12 years or so. Using the rule of 72, I will likely have anywhere from $10-$16MM by the time I reach age 67, and thats if I never add another dime to my portfolio. As it stands now, Im saving/investing about $90-$100k per year, so chances are that $10-$16MM number will be much higher at retirement age, especially as my income hopefully continues to increase.

Of course, anything could happen from now until retirement age, so I keep my foot on the gas and continue to save/invest like crazy, and diversify my income into other sources of income outside of my main office job.
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 9:42p, 2/19/24
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Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.


401K's are a tool that the wealthy use to hold down their employees, plain and simple. They were invented to keep the masses from revolting when they did away with pensions, not to make you wealthy. Bread and circuses.
Sponsor Message: We Split Commissions. Full Service Agents in Austin, Bryan-College Station, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio. Red Pear Realty
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 9:52p, 2/19/24
AG
Even if that's true, that doesn't negate the fact that they do make you wealthy when used to their full potential.
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 9:53p, 2/19/24
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.


401K's are a tool that the wealthy use to hold down their employees, plain and simple. They were invented to keep the masses from revolting when they did away with pensions, not to make you wealthy. Bread and circuses.


I'm here for the tin-foil TexAg's verified sponsor takes.

Seriously, get a sock and hop back in. It's better for business.
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aggiebq03+
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 9:54p, 2/19/24
Red Pear Realty said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.


401K's are a tool that the wealthy use to hold down their employees, plain and simple. They were invented to keep the masses from revolting when they did away with pensions, not to make you wealthy. Bread and circuses.

This is simply not true.

401ks were added to the tax code as a way for companies to get a tax break for highly paid employees most people would call "the rich". They were later realized as a decent way for companies to offer an additional incentive to more employees, and more importantly as a way for investment firms to try and capture a large customer base.

The fact is not many people had pensions. I don't have the source but think it was like 25% or less of employees in the private sector even at the peak of pensions.


Editing to add: Red Pear helped us buy a house, and later sell that house, and both transactions were done mostly while we were living out of country. Went out of their way to provide excellent service. People can and do disagree on things, and can still be exceptional people. Always learn interesting things on the B&I board.
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Cyp0111
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10:04p, 2/19/24
It's a way to reduce corporate pension liabilities and feed the financial industry.
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I bleed maroon
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 10:05p, 2/19/24
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.


401K's are a tool that the wealthy use to hold down their employees, plain and simple. They were invented to keep the masses from revolting when they did away with pensions, not to make you wealthy. Bread and circuses.
I'm not sure where this line of thinking comes from.

401(k)s are the result of a shift from defined benefit to defined contribution retirement funding. Defined benefit plans became far too expensive (see social security's future) due to ever-increasing longevity of people in retirement. This was supported by:

  • Companies and Management (who wanted a known "contribution matching" expense vs. having to explain underfunded pensions every earnings call)
  • Long-term employees / future retirees (who wanted to control their investments vs. the "boring" fixed income investing companies did on their behalf),
  • New hires / young employees - overwhelmingly wanted more upside and say-so in their risk/return equation for retirement funds; younger people didn't really understand or appreciate the value of a pension

  • All political stripes - mainly because of the transparency and control the 401(k) provided

Government was initially reluctant, because it was a change from the status quo. Unions, Non-Profits, Educators and some others had a tough time getting on board initially.

Maybe you and I are a couple of people who understand and see the value of a pension, but the vast majority of Americans cheered this change. I'd personally like to see a mix of defined benefit and defined contribution, if the numbers could be worked out. I have both, and greatly value them. And yes, 401(k)s are a great way for most people to build wealth (however they define it).
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Caliber
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10:08p, 2/19/24
AG
The twists and turns in this thread are great. Especially once we hit the evening and alcohol liberated the posting fingers!
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Caliber • 10:16p, 2/19/24
AG
I've still got time over here on the best coast. But I did just pour a Rittenhouse Manhattan.

I'm sure the could-of Billionaire is sipping something mighty fine.
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Heineken-Ashi
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10:17p, 2/19/24
Your 401k looks great, until the market tanks and takes 15 years to recover on an inflation adjusted basis.

Source - 1999-2015.
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YouBet
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10:21p, 2/19/24
AG
This thread tonight was the telephone game. Let's recap:

EvenPar said you can't get wealthy in the market.

I said that was silly and false because it clearly is and implies that the only way to build wealth is to start a business.

401ks were then conflated as "the market". The market is bigger than the 401k. We have two 401ks, two profit sharing plans, multiple IRAs, taxable accounts, stocks, a bond ladder, some BTC, etc. All of these are "the market" and together they can easily make one wealthy if you make a plan and work the plan.

Is the upside potential greater if you start your own business? Sure. It also has more risk and generally requires enormous amounts of your time until/unless you get it successful and can delegate. It's not for everyone.

There are multiple ways to get wealthy.
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 10:25p, 2/19/24
AG
Heineken-Ashi said:
Your 401k looks great, until the market tanks and takes 15 years to recover on an inflation adjusted basis.

Source - 1999-2015.


And so does your Roth, Trad and Taxable.

Lol, S&P is S&P, it doesn't matter where it's held.
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to Caliber • 10:31p, 2/19/24
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AG
Caliber said:
The twists and turns in this thread are great. Especially once we hit the evening and alcohol liberated the posting fingers!


This is my favorite post today. "This guy isn't a fan of 401K's, he must be drunk!"
Sponsor Message: We Split Commissions. Full Service Agents in Austin, Bryan-College Station, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio. Red Pear Realty
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 10:31p, 2/19/24
AG
Heineken-Ashi said:
Your 401k looks great, until the market tanks and takes 15 years to recover on an inflation adjusted basis.

Source - 1999-2015.


That's a lot of cheap shares.
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 10:41p, 2/19/24
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
Caliber said:
The twists and turns in this thread are great. Especially once we hit the evening and alcohol liberated the posting fingers!


This is my favorite post today. "This guy isn't a fan of 401K's, he must be drunk!"


Homie, it was the, "I could have been a billionaire, but, also 401(k)s are a conspiracy for the Corporations to hold you down and your "wealthy" isn't my wealthy, so don't pass go" that led us here. From a sponsor account to boot.

If you aren't a few deep and this is sober posting, bless.
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to RangerRick9211 • 10:54p, 2/19/24
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AG
You keep throwing the sponsor tag at me like you think it's my motivation for being here.
Sponsor Message: We Split Commissions. Full Service Agents in Austin, Bryan-College Station, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio. Red Pear Realty
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RangerRick9211
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 10:58p, 2/19/24
AG
Hot take is to **** on people for not really being "wealthy" on the site you're paying to gen business. I don't need to be a billionaire to tell you that's bad business and simple poor taste.

Do you. I'm enjoying the show!

Edit: Seriously, it took me under a minute in your post history and your sponsor linked website to find you IRL, JP. Again, get a sock. I mean that sincerely. You'll never have my business, you're a bit of a dick, but it's the internet and that shouldn't impact you IRL. But seriously, you're on a sponsored account. What do you gain in this thread?

Edit on the edit: I actually read your TexAgs linked sponsored profile and I also went to GBC for almost 8 years before we left town. We were also comm leaders and I remain friends with West. What is you doing, dude? That's my point on posting this **** from a sponsor account that directly links to your face, name and your kids names. Come on.
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agdaddy04
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In reply to aggiebq03+ • 11:10p, 2/19/24
AG
aggiebq03+ said:
Red Pear Realty said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.


401K's are a tool that the wealthy use to hold down their employees, plain and simple. They were invented to keep the masses from revolting when they did away with pensions, not to make you wealthy. Bread and circuses.

This is simply not true.

401ks were added to the tax code as a way for companies to get a tax break for highly paid employees most people would call "the rich". They were later realized as a decent way for companies to offer an additional incentive to more employees, and more importantly as a way for investment firms to try and capture a large customer base.

The fact is not many people had pensions. I don't have the source but think it was like 25% or less of employees in the private sector even at the peak of pensions.

Yep.. in my industry, before 401ks, employees had a salary and … that's it. I'm in my early 40's so most companies had a 401k by the time I got into the business, but many of the folks in their late 40's started with no retirement plan at all.
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Kansas Kid
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11:19p, 2/19/24
Someone commented on the rarity of DB plans even before the 401k. This chart helps show that fact (he was close in his estimate). What the 401k has done is create a lot more opportunities for people to have retirement savings with employers contributing a decent amount to the plans. Has there been a drop in the number of people covered by DB plans, absolutely but it hasn't been anywhere near as much of a drop as the increase in people with 401K plans.
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aunuwyn08
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 11:27p, 2/19/24
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.


401K's are a tool that the wealthy use to hold down their employees, plain and simple. They were invented to keep the masses from revolting when they did away with pensions, not to make you wealthy. Bread and circuses.


Can you expound on the reasons why 401ks "hold down" employees?
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Heineken-Ashi
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In reply to aunuwyn08 • 11:45p, 2/19/24
aunuwyn08 said:
Red Pear Realty said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
I agree that it's good conversation.

My only point is that 401ks can and DO create wealth. Starting a business is not the only road to wealth. The road to wealth can also be slow, long, and boring, but one that most people can take.


401K's are a tool that the wealthy use to hold down their employees, plain and simple. They were invented to keep the masses from revolting when they did away with pensions, not to make you wealthy. Bread and circuses.


Can you expound on the reasons why 401ks "hold down" employees?
I took that to mean that it's yet another incentive to keep you on their schedule, using your talents for their goals and their gain, where instead you might go off and accomplish something on your own for your own benefit and your own gain. And I happen to agree when framed in that light. 401k's aren't bad. They are a nice benefit. And they can even be lucrative when you happen to be alive and invested in the most parabolic bull market of all time. But they aren't there for you to get wealthy. They are one of multiple vehicles to provide enough incentive that you don't leave and that you keep selling your time and talents to them.

As humans, we are massively talented when properly educated and spirited enough to seek our highest potential. And when the potential to maximize talents meets the possible reward that makes going out and taking the risk for yourself, that's when people create real wealth. Of course, many will fail. It's not for everyone to be entrepreneurial in spirit. And most can't stomach the risk.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 11:51p, 2/19/24
AG
The problem with that is that talent and hard work are not the only factors in successful businesses. You can have the best business plan in the world, and then something like COVID happens. Or something not nearly as catastrophic. It's a hard fact that most businesses fail.

Also, what do you consider "real wealth"?
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Brian Earl Spilner
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11:54p, 2/19/24
AG
Oh, and nobody needs a parabolic bull market to become wealthy. Just an average yearly return of the S&P for multiple decades is more than enough.
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Heineken-Ashi
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:58p, 2/19/24
Brian Earl Spilner said:
The problem with that is that talent and hard work are not the only factors in successful businesses. You can have the best business plan in the world, and then something like COVID happens. Or something not nearly as catastrophic. It's a hard fact that most businesses fail.

Also, what do you consider "real wealth"?
The kind where you are reinvesting it constantly into opportunities that the average person likely doesn't even know exists.

Would you rather have $500k in a 401k? Or $500k diversified into multiple properties, companies, or alternative investments, especially the type where you are the GP, realizing both general returns AND the promote on top. In the former, you DCA into it and watch it rise over time hoping the market keeps going up. The latter, you are compounding 3-10x types of returns into more and more positions and likely better and more exclusive types of investments.
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bagger05
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12:00a, 2/20/24
AG
Most people don't want to be entrepreneurs.

And that's fine.

Despite what Instagram says, being an entrepreneur isn't some higher calling. It's just a way to make a living. It comes with pros and cons just like anything else.

Society needs all kinds.
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62strat
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 12:05a, 2/20/24
AG
Red Pear Realty said:
I co-founded a company about three years ago that has created tens of millions of profits to date. Several investors in that company exist on TexAgs and even this thread. If I had stayed we probably could all have been billionaires. My former partners will make lots of money, maybe even billions on their own. The important thing I'm trying to communicate is that to me, and of course others too, is that there are things more important in life than money. I'm sitting next to my wife and two year old watching the oldest two at gymnastics practice. That's pretty cool.
you left billions on the table a few years ago because you wanted to spend time with your kid and she's only 2?



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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Heineken-Ashi • 12:15a, 2/20/24
AG
Well, the $500k isn't in a 401k, it's diversified in 500 companies, plus bonds depending on specific plans.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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12:16a, 2/20/24
AG
Also, nice non-answer to my question. I asked what you consider wealth, not the type of investing you're doing with it.
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to bagger05 • 12:22a, 2/20/24
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AG
bagger05 said:
Most people don't want to be entrepreneurs.

And that's fine.

Despite what Instagram says, being an entrepreneur isn't some higher calling. It's just a way to make a living. It comes with pros and cons just like anything else.

Society needs all kinds.


Amen
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Red Pear Realty
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In reply to 62strat • 12:26a, 2/20/24
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AG
Everyone working for a 401k gives up being a billionaire each day too. What's the difference? Say you make a billion. Then what? Sleep on the floor at one of my factories? Buy another toy to enjoy by myself or to impress strangers on the internet?
Sponsor Message: We Split Commissions. Full Service Agents in Austin, Bryan-College Station, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston and San Antonio. Red Pear Realty
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to Red Pear Realty • 12:34a, 2/20/24
AG
You mean what you're doing now?

You're bragging about the money you COULD'VE had, can't imagine what your posting would be if you actually had it.
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