I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
millionaires
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Thats why I think including home values is hard. If you have a mortgage on a 650,000 house and then also 300,000 in stocks are you worth negative -300,000? Of course not.coastalAg said:I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
The real question is how much equity do you have in your home, but thats way harder to get information on and compile.
coastalAg said:I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
that chart is not what I have seen from many other retirement planners.
it states "net worth includes home values" which to me sounds like if you just bought a $500,000 dollar house that is added to your net worth.
NOT the actual equity you have in the home. so that is pretty misleading as far as statistics.
I think it would be helpful if this thread got back to how to amass net worth of a million dollars.
which 401K mutual funds?
which private brokerage stocks?
which ETF?
how much crypto?
which real estate to buy?
which 401K mutual funds?
which private brokerage stocks?
which ETF?
how much crypto?
which real estate to buy?
LMCane said:
I think it would be helpful if this thread got back to how to amass net worth of a million dollars.
which 401K mutual funds?
which private brokerage stocks?
which ETF?
how much crypto?
which real estate to buy?
There are a million sites, books, etc that go over this.
Question is how many ask, what are you spending.
Good distinction. I will update to say Net Housing Value which is how the Fed Reserve defines it meaning it's Home Value - Debts Secured by Home (Mortgages, home equity loans, etc.)LMCane said:coastalAg said:I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
that chart is not what I have seen from many other retirement planners.
it states "net worth includes home values" which to me sounds like if you just bought a $500,000 dollar house that is added to your net worth.
NOT the actual equity you have in the home. so that is pretty misleading as far as statistics.
Thus, the number in here are actually home equity.
Simplest answer is to find an S&P500 tracking ETF stock ticker like VOO or SPY. Make sure its autoinvested every time you get a paycheck, and dividends reinvested, keep buying, never sell, and chug along for 20+ years. ITOT follows like 3000 companies instead of the top 500. QQQ is the NASDAQ 100 and so its heavily concentrated in tech.LMCane said:
I think it would be helpful if this thread got back to how to amass net worth of a million dollars.
which 401K mutual funds?
which private brokerage stocks?
which ETF?
how much crypto?
which real estate to buy?
For 401ks you're going to be stuck with whatever options your company has. Look for the lowest fee S&P500 follower.
For more nuance, I recommend getting on bogleheads.org and perusing it. Its named after the guy who was the first and biggest proponent of this style of investing. Or getting an account with Schwab or Fidelity and taking a couple investing basics courses for free there.
Mutual funds are overly expensive with no better returns than ETFs. Crypto is gambling or a hedge against government tyranny first and an investment second, buy a home where you want in a good school district that you can live in for at least 7 years. Buy a car and drive it into the ground.
Congrats on joining the boring middle class. You're well on your way to stealth wealth. Socks and sandals are not required. Mowing your lawn is.
YouBet said:Good distinction. I will update to say Net Housing Value which is how the Fed Reserve defines it meaning it's Home Value - Debts Secured by Home (Mortgages, home equity loans, etc.)LMCane said:coastalAg said:I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
that chart is not what I have seen from many other retirement planners.
it states "net worth includes home values" which to me sounds like if you just bought a $500,000 dollar house that is added to your net worth.
NOT the actual equity you have in the home. so that is pretty misleading as far as statistics.
Thus, the number in here are actually home equity.
My assumption is they are calculating net worth with home value as an asset and mortgage as an asset.
Restated, I would be interested to see home equity as a percentage of net worth in those age ranges. I would guess that it makes up most of the average persons net worth.
I follow this thread intermittently and hit the milestone last year. My $1MM has already grown to about $1.3MM.
I decided to reach out to a financial planner because I want the option to retire as soon as I am eligible - which would be at 55 (I'm 43 now).
Most if my retirement/pension is with the company I currently work for, but I have my 403b from my stint in academia.
To my untrained eye, that account appeared to be doing well, especially since I haven't added any money to it in 12 years (market growth only). But when my planner ran it through his software, it's actually the most conservatively invested account that I have. Even more conservative than my personal savings that I have in Fidelity funds!
So, objective #1 is to get that money somewhere it can grow faster.
Moral of the story is, if you've had job/career changes that resulted in orphaned retirement accounts, it might be worth it to let a professional assess them. I'm kind of kicking myself for waiting so long, since I've probably sacrificed a lot of gains by not having it evaluated sooner.
I decided to reach out to a financial planner because I want the option to retire as soon as I am eligible - which would be at 55 (I'm 43 now).
Most if my retirement/pension is with the company I currently work for, but I have my 403b from my stint in academia.
To my untrained eye, that account appeared to be doing well, especially since I haven't added any money to it in 12 years (market growth only). But when my planner ran it through his software, it's actually the most conservatively invested account that I have. Even more conservative than my personal savings that I have in Fidelity funds!
So, objective #1 is to get that money somewhere it can grow faster.
Moral of the story is, if you've had job/career changes that resulted in orphaned retirement accounts, it might be worth it to let a professional assess them. I'm kind of kicking myself for waiting so long, since I've probably sacrificed a lot of gains by not having it evaluated sooner.
If you grew it 30% in the last year, that's very impressive. I went more stock than I've ever been and my value has shrunk by about 15% in the last couple of months.
No, they are calculating the mortgage as a liability.coastalAg said:YouBet said:Good distinction. I will update to say Net Housing Value which is how the Fed Reserve defines it meaning it's Home Value - Debts Secured by Home (Mortgages, home equity loans, etc.)LMCane said:coastalAg said:I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
that chart is not what I have seen from many other retirement planners.
it states "net worth includes home values" which to me sounds like if you just bought a $500,000 dollar house that is added to your net worth.
NOT the actual equity you have in the home. so that is pretty misleading as far as statistics.
Thus, the number in here are actually home equity.
My assumption is they are calculating net worth with home value as an asset and mortgage as an asset.
Restated, I would be interested to see home equity as a percentage of net worth in those age ranges. I would guess that it makes up most of the average persons net worth.
Net Home Value = Home Value (Asset) - Mortgage/Home Equity Loans/Home Line of Credit (Liabilities)
Brain is not fully functional today. I meant mortgage as a liability
On your second question, I'm not sure if they have that but I'm quite sure you are correct.coastalAg said:
Brain is not fully functional today. I meant mortgage as a liability
My timeline was off a little. Hit $1MM in mid-2020. And my accounts have been on the struggle bus the last few months, too. A lot of that growth is my contributions - I max out my 401k and an HSA.
Personal savings has taken the biggest hit the last couple of months. Those accounts are down significantly.
Personal savings has taken the biggest hit the last couple of months. Those accounts are down significantly.
I think we've all been on the struggle bus lately unless most of your stuff is focused in more narrowly scoped funds that are counter to the market.TXTransplant said:
My timeline was off a little. Hit $1MM in mid-2020. And my accounts have been on the struggle bus the last few months, too. A lot of that growth is my contributions - I max out my 401k and an HSA.
Personal savings has taken the biggest hit the last couple of months. Those accounts are down significantly.
Keep buying. Now's the time to let it ride. Save what you can to move to investments.
I've never stopped.riverrataggie said:
Keep buying. Now's the time to let it ride. Save what you can to move to investments.
one MEEN Ag said:Thats why I think including home values is hard. If you have a mortgage on a 650,000 house and then also 300,000 in stocks are you worth negative -300,000? Of course not.coastalAg said:I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
The real question is how much equity do you have in your home, but thats way harder to get information on and compile.
Wrong, all debt subtracts from net worth. What if something unfortunate happens and you can't sell that home? You still owe the bank that mortgage money.
DeSantis 2024
FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
Any recommendations for investing a largish lump sum? We had some cash earmarked for something that didnt materialize.
Already maxing out 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, and funding 529s. Also have a small brokerage account with some speculative money. Anybody have luck with REITs? Other ideas?
Already maxing out 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, and funding 529s. Also have a small brokerage account with some speculative money. Anybody have luck with REITs? Other ideas?
Coastal - How largish? 100,000? More?
If at or north of that range, I'd suggest avoiding REIT and going straight to MF RE through a syndication. Lots and lots to be read about, but I'd also be happy to share my experience.
Wife and I had a similar instance, where a business even triggered a lump sum. We were in the same boat as you - all ret. accounts taken care of, taxable brokerage with a growing amount, etc. Decided to dive off into RE as a way to generate passive income. Didn't want to be landlords, wanted something more passive, chose syndicated MF RE deals.
If at or north of that range, I'd suggest avoiding REIT and going straight to MF RE through a syndication. Lots and lots to be read about, but I'd also be happy to share my experience.
Wife and I had a similar instance, where a business even triggered a lump sum. We were in the same boat as you - all ret. accounts taken care of, taxable brokerage with a growing amount, etc. Decided to dive off into RE as a way to generate passive income. Didn't want to be landlords, wanted something more passive, chose syndicated MF RE deals.
My REIT is up 24% - VNQ - which is about 2.5 years. It's a little volatile considering the market but it's been pretty good. Might be better ones out there.coastalAg said:
Any recommendations for investing a largish lump sum? We had some cash earmarked for something that didnt materialize.
Already maxing out 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, and funding 529s. Also have a small brokerage account with some speculative money. Anybody have luck with REITs? Other ideas?
Tax free muni's? Depends on your horizon and strategy.
We are trying to just build out our taxable accounts a bit more because I kind of neglected that over the years.
No its right, business 101 is:XXXVII said:one MEEN Ag said:Thats why I think including home values is hard. If you have a mortgage on a 650,000 house and then also 300,000 in stocks are you worth negative -300,000? Of course not.coastalAg said:I would love to see the stats on home value as a percentage of net worth in these same age rangesYouBet said:
From the $5M thread, I thought this would be appropriate to post here for context since it's highly relevant to this thread:
Net worth by age (Net Worth Includes Home Values)*
Age group | Median net worth | Average net worth
Under 35 years old | $14,000 | $76,340
35-44 years old | $91,110 | $437,770
45-54 years old | $168,800 | $833,790
55-64 years old | $213,150 | $1,176,520
65-74 | $266,070 | $1,215,920
75 years or older | $254,900 | $958,450
*Source: Federal Reserve 2021
The real question is how much equity do you have in your home, but thats way harder to get information on and compile.
Wrong, all debt subtracts from net worth. What if something unfortunate happens and you can't sell that home? You still owe the bank that mortgage money.
net worth=assets-liabilities,
But you're just playing one side of the coin. You want the mortgage to be fully counted as a liability, but your not counting the actual home as an asset. Which means my original point stands, your net worth should include your net equity in your home. Give yourself some percentage points risk about selling in a down market potentially if you need to.
I think its a self defeating metric for analyzing retirement-worthiness. I've got friends who own homes worth nearly a million dollars. They have high paying jobs to pay the mortgage. To say their total net worth is -500,000 when they've got 400k in the bank and 100k equity on a million dollar home is asinine. Thats lumping them in with private school graduates underwater on loans with worthless degrees.
I am saying that the equity (market value minus debt) is an asset. Markets fluctuate and home values can drop which could put you underwater or lower your equity considerably. That mortgage debt doesn't go away and should always be in included in net worth calculations.
DeSantis 2024
FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
FJB, FJB, FJB, etc
coastalAg said:
Any recommendations for investing a largish lump sum? We had some cash earmarked for something that didnt materialize.
Already maxing out 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, and funding 529s. Also have a small brokerage account with some speculative money. Anybody have luck with REITs? Other ideas?
I'd stick it in my well diversified investment account.
Are you asking for stock or sector pics or something other than the stock market?coastalAg said:
Any recommendations for investing a largish lump sum? We had some cash earmarked for something that didnt materialize.
Already maxing out 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, and funding 529s. Also have a small brokerage account with some speculative money. Anybody have luck with REITs? Other ideas?
I would just continue to plow cash into the stock market.
Currently, oil and gas is seeing some industry level portfolio rebalancing and big players have jumped back in on the stocks. Lots of hedges are off of US land players this year. I think tech companies are going to continue to grow, so investing in QQQ is probably a good buy and hold.
You could hold ET through February to see if there's another big freeze and a special dividend.
I think y'all are saying the same thing.XXXVII said:
I am saying that the equity (market value minus debt) is an asset. Markets fluctuate and home values can drop which could put you underwater or lower your equity considerably. That mortgage debt doesn't go away and should always be in included in net worth calculations.
I generally do not factor home equity into retirement planning or more importantly assets which provide cash flow. It's more or less my bonus money but imagine even if/when we sell we will not downsize as very few people do until much much later in life.
It's back to the old farmer/rancher saying long land/short cash.
It's back to the old farmer/rancher saying long land/short cash.
I get it. I just think from a level set perspective we all just need to agree Net Worth includes it because that's the definition and if you don't include it then use a different term.Cyp0111 said:
I generally do not factor home equity into retirement planning or more importantly assets which provide cash flow. It's more or less my bonus money but imagine even if/when we sell we will not downsize as very few people do until much much later in life.
It's back to the old farmer/rancher saying long land/short cash.
Personally, I factor it because we plan to sell our home at some point in next 5 years and do plan to "downgrade" by mere fact of moving out of Dallas. However, market realities may correct my assumptions on what we can get for our money depending on where we end up. Will find out then.
Either type of advice is welcome. Just looking for different opinions on what people would do if they had a lump sum to invest and all their other retirement and savings bases were covered.one MEEN Ag said:Are you asking for stock or sector pics or something other than the stock market?coastalAg said:
Any recommendations for investing a largish lump sum? We had some cash earmarked for something that didnt materialize.
Already maxing out 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, and funding 529s. Also have a small brokerage account with some speculative money. Anybody have luck with REITs? Other ideas?
I would just continue to plow cash into the stock market.
Currently, oil and gas is seeing some industry level portfolio rebalancing and big players have jumped back in on the stocks. Lots of hedges are off of US land players this year. I think tech companies are going to continue to grow, so investing in QQQ is probably a good buy and hold.
You could hold ET through February to see if there's another big freeze and a special dividend.
Some good advice in here, thanks all.
Its in that ballpark. I had not considered that option before so I will have to do some research. Your situation sounds similar to mine. Thanks for the advice!TikkaShooter said:
Coastal - How largish? 100,000? More?
If at or north of that range, I'd suggest avoiding REIT and going straight to MF RE through a syndication. Lots and lots to be read about, but I'd also be happy to share my experience.
Wife and I had a similar instance, where a business even triggered a lump sum. We were in the same boat as you - all ret. accounts taken care of, taxable brokerage with a growing amount, etc. Decided to dive off into RE as a way to generate passive income. Didn't want to be landlords, wanted something more passive, chose syndicated MF RE deals.
You bet. Happy to offer some perspective if you'd like.
user name at yahoo email address
user name at yahoo email address
Need to branch out .. never hung out over here in these forums. Maybe it's time to grow up. I'm all ears.
YouBet said:I get it. I just think from a level set perspective we all just need to agree Net Worth includes it because that's the definition and if you don't include it then use a different term.Cyp0111 said:
I generally do not factor home equity into retirement planning or more importantly assets which provide cash flow. It's more or less my bonus money but imagine even if/when we sell we will not downsize as very few people do until much much later in life.
It's back to the old farmer/rancher saying long land/short cash.
Personally, I factor it because we plan to sell our home at some point in next 5 years and do plan to "downgrade" by mere fact of moving out of Dallas. However, market realities may correct my assumptions on what we can get for our money depending on where we end up. Will find out then.
Agreed with this statement. Net worth and retirement planning are two separate things. To have a true picture of your net worth you include all assets and liabilities. When planning for retirement, I look at cash flows and how much I have in the market/businesses that will generate income while I'm in retirement.
My father in law and I would go into town and he would run into some of his friends or people known to him and after he was done we would get in the truck and he would say "all hat no cattle" after a few of them. I looked at him with a blank stare. He went on to explain that it is better to have cattle/money than "all hat"/appearance as most all hats are broke and you could tell it in their language, mannerisms, dress and playthings.gigemhilo said:
Many who you would think are millionaires are in fact NOT millionaires - because they spend every dime they make and have an insane amount of debt.
I read somewhere once that the most common vehicle owned by a millionaire was a Ford F150. This was because there are more farmers that are by definition millionaires than there are big shots. There is a lot of truth to that around these parts. Had a client pass away a couple years back that lived in a worthless shack but had almost $2mil in savings bonds in the bank. Crazy!
I decided to be a cattle guy.
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