titanmaster_race said:

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Ag_07 said:

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That's the thing...I think waiting until after the draft is indeed taking a big cheap shot and giving Luhnow the middle finger.

Marwin and Charlie handled things like the pros they are. They didn't take it personally and moved on gracefully. Keuchel kicked and screamed and whined his ass off.

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I'm not sure I understand. Do you think Keuchel purposefully has waited until after the draft to get serious about signing with someone?

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Yes I do

Once this drug out into the season I think he had every intention of waiting until after the draft. If he didn't want to wait he had offers to accept. Hell IIRC he had a 2 year offer from us.

Now was it with the intention to specifically screw us or to get max money? I don't know. But yes once he missed one or two starts I think he had every intention to wait until after the draft.

titanmaster_race said:

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Ag_07 said:

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That's the thing...I think waiting until after the draft is indeed taking a big cheap shot and giving Luhnow the middle finger.

Marwin and Charlie handled things like the pros they are. They didn't take it personally and moved on gracefully. Keuchel kicked and screamed and whined his ass off.

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I'm not sure I understand. Do you think Keuchel purposefully has waited until after the draft to get serious about signing with someone?

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I am with you, he wanted to sign a long time ago but just didn't get his unrealistic number. His biggest crimes so far are having an unrealistic self-worth and being a little douc<hy but nothing unforgivable. He cost us a draft pick but I seriously doubt that was anything to do with trying to hurt us. He ended up hurting himself the most.

Anyway I hope he signs soon with the Yankees. I predict Bregman will have about a 2.000 OPS against him.

Lets have a little "Price is Right" on where he goes and for how much.

I have a feeling he's going to go to the Padres for $15M with a higher $ team option or one that kicks in if he meets certain performance incentives.

He wont sign for this year for anything better that $10MM Maybe $9MM with some easy incentives. Realistically he wont pitch but half a season. Why would anyone pay him more than half pay? He's the equivalent of a trade deadline pick up for a contender but you really don't quite know what you will get as you dont have the first half data. Hell, Mike Minor would be a much better pick up this season IMHO.

I think Dallas goes to Cardinals
1 year, $10M

irish pete ag06 said:

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Just watched condensed game. I could watch Myles Straw run bases all day. Wow.

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Here I thought Fisher was fast.

Ag_07 said:

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Just can't get out of their own way.

Gross

Ag_07 said:

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titanmaster_race said:

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Ag_07 said:

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That's the thing...I think waiting until after the draft is indeed taking a big cheap shot and giving Luhnow the middle finger.

Marwin and Charlie handled things like the pros they are. They didn't take it personally and moved on gracefully. Keuchel kicked and screamed and whined his ass off.

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I'm not sure I understand. Do you think Keuchel purposefully has waited until after the draft to get serious about signing with someone?

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Yes I do

Once this drug out into the season I think he had every intention of waiting until after the draft. If he didn't want to wait he had offers to accept. Hell IIRC he had a 2 year offer from us.

Now was it with the intention to specifically screw us or to get max money? I don't know. But yes once he missed one or two starts I think he had every intention to wait until after the draft.

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I think you're wrong. He wants to get paid and he wants to play baseball. I seriously doubt anything he's done he's done for any other reason than wanting to get paid.

He didn't get the offers he wanted during the off-season and at the beginning of the season. Eventually teams likely stopped making offers a little ways into the season, because why spend a significant amount of $$$ on a pitcher and also have to cough up a draft pick and still have your new acquisition miss an appreciable part of the season?

Now that the draft pick loss is no longer a consequence, I guarantee that Keuchel and Kimbrel's phones will be blowing up.

mathguy86 said:

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He wont sign for this year for anything better that $10MM Maybe $9MM with some easy incentives. Realistically he wont pitch but half a season. Why would anyone pay him more than half pay? He's the equivalent of a trade deadline pick up for a contender but you really don't quite know what you will get as you dont have the first half data. Hell, Mike Minor would be a much better pick up this season IMHO.

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I'm not an expert on MLB contracts, but I thought the contract money is portioned out as the season goes on. I.e., if Keuchel gets a $15m/yr offer from someone but doesn't sign until half the season is gone, the team only owes him $7.5m

Either way, I'm sure this season will somehow be prorated for Keuchel and kimbrel.

Someone should tell him that the wine is being stored WAY outside the recommended temp and it's sitting there spoiling.

EastCoastAgNc said:

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Gross

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Yuck. Screw boras.

Just read the tweet about the prorated qualifying offer. Maybe I'm completely wrong!

I'll agree that he wants to get paid. No arguing that.

But nothing he's done has to do anything with getting on the field and wanting to play baseball. If he wanted to play baseball he'd be playing baseball. From what I've read they've had ongoing talks with teams since the season started and there's been dialogue. Their phones haven't been silent. I just think they're still so far off nothing has come close to happening.

The fact they think they can wait longer and not expect a decline in salary is baffling. That doesn't have anything to with FMV or anything of the sort. That's a simple fact that the less starts you make the less money you're going to make.

I said it yesterday, signing with most of these tetanus is problematic. They are all at the full limit on the 40 man roster and really have to room to make for either player. They don't have any candidates to move to the 60 day IL to open a spot. Sign them and you have to cut someone lose or make a trade first

Ag_07 said:

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I'll agree that he wants to get paid. No arguing that.

But nothing he's done has to do anything with getting on the field and wanting to play baseball. If he wanted to play baseball he'd be playing baseball. From what I've read they've had ongoing talks with teams since the season started and there's been dialogue. Their phones haven't been silent. I just think they're still so far off nothing has come close to happening.

The fact they think they can wait longer and not expect a decline in salary is baffling. That doesn't have anything to with FMV or anything of the sort. That's a simple fact that the less starts you make the less money you're going to make.

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If we are talking about that same tweet, I think it was saying that neither Keuchel or kimbrel are willing to sign for the prorated qualifying offer amount, which is very different from not willing to sign for any prorated amount.

Yeah for sure it's different but if they haven't gotten their number by now why would they get it now? Whether it's the QO amount of any more than that.

I'm just not on their side on this. Guess it's just a point of view thing and the way I see it they're being stubborn and lack any sense of self awareness. In my mind I can't fathom how anyone can take their side and agree with how they've handled things.

Ag_07 said:

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Yeah for sure it's different but if they haven't gotten their number by now why would they get it now? Whether it's the QO amount of any more than that.

I'm just not on their side on this. Guess it's just a point of view thing and the way I see it they're being stubborn and lack any sense of self awareness. In my mind I can't fathom how anyone can take their side and agree with how they've handled things.

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This is just one battle in the ongoing war between players and owners over pay. Do they get paid a lot of money? Absolutely. Do they get paid an appropriate amount given the revenue they bring to the owners? Well that's the question. I tend to side with the players and say no. Keuchel and kimbrel likely see themselves to some extent as representing the players in all of this, so there is additional pressure on them to continue to hold out for what they think they deserve. Many players definitely see it that way (listen to Colin McHugh's first podcast episode if you haven't).

Teddy Perkins said:

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expresswrittenconsent said:

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https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/6/3/18644512/mvp-machine-how-houston-astros-became-great-scouting

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Excellent read.

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Yes. Awesome read. Thanks for posting.

Awesome article.

Give them lower guaranteed amounts with higher incentives. This way they can't coast after a big contract. I bet they would rather incentive contracts so they can continue to show how great they are.

I've listened and I do and don't agree. Again, it's a point of view thing. The way I see it is no they don't get paid in relation to revenue they generate, but that's part of being an employee. They don't put up the risk that owners do.

Probably a discussion for another thread but I think in general top end and middle of the road veteran guys get a fair shake but the younger guys on their rookie deals get screwed.

And hey if they're doing it for the betterment of the players as a whole are they gonna donate any portion of that salary to the player's pension fund? I doubt it. They're just using that as a front so they don't look so bad while trying to get theirs.

I Like Turtles said:

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That masseuse owes the Astros his entire salary for the year if true. And how bad do you have to be to crack a clients rib?

Still not sure I buy it.

And how do you hear a rib pop from upstairs?

Still question the quick movement that he makes to show where it is. This was 2 days after breaking a rib? I would think he would be a lot sore and moving a little slower.

Mr.Bond said:

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In absolutely no scenario do I see him getting the equivalent of a 30 million dollar a year deal

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OK, well then what do you think he will get? It's easy to say he won't get something but why don't you take a stab at what he will get?

Also is it not weird that Gattis has not signed somewhere? A little a streaky but a more than decent hitter. I'm shocked someone hasn't thrown a few million bucks his way.