MSFC Aggie said:

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Matt Harvey - Profar swap?

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I don't recall if it was 2015 or 2016, I said the Mets ruined Harvey. I should probably get stars to see what I said.

He was coming back from TJ and in most cases, they indicate a SP should go no more than 140-150 IP the 1st season back. Harvey went 189.

I thought I had mentioned the Rangers getting him in a desperate attempt hoping he'd turn it around. 2017 was worse than 2016. I don't know if he is worth giving up Profar or it would be a steal to get him.

Past is the past and what-not, but signing Santana to a multi-year deal after skimping on Encarnacion for an attempted Napoli bargain last year would be pretty sad.

TXAggie2011 said:

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They'll be quite fortunate to find one player in the Rule V draft that can contribute in any real way.

Bringing in multiple Rule V players will help them tank but not much else.


They have to draft well, and sign international kids well. Plain and simple, hard to see them finding success any other way.


Sucks for Marlins fans; they've been jerked around for like 25 years.

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When you say "contribute in any real way," are you talking 2018, or ever?

The point would be to grab 3- or 4 guys, stash them in 2018 on the ML roster, in hopes they'll be 2019 (or beyond) contributors.

I can think of half a dozen guys who were exposed to Rule V and went on the ML careers.

Having said that, the Marlins are doing it their old-fashioned way. Which doesn't surprise me.

Sell off even MORE young controllable players. Looks like Ozuna and Marcell will be shipped. I would expect them to get 3+/- low-level high upside prospects that project to 2021/2022 call-ups.

Gentlemen... the Marlins are likely to win the 2023 World Series. Watch and learn.

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When you say "contribute in any real way," are you talking 2018, or ever?

The point would be to grab 3- or 4 guys, stash them in 2018 on the ML roster, in hopes they'll be 2019 (or beyond) contributors.

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I mean ever. They'll be fortunate to find one guy in the Rule V draft that ever goes on to be a real contributor for them.

No doubt some players selected in the Rule V draft go on to have decent MLB careers. Some even much better than decent.


If they have the roster room, stash 'em and give it a shot, I guess.

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Sell off even MORE young controllable players. Looks like Ozuna and Marcell will be shipped. I would expect them to get 3+/- low-level high upside prospects that project to 2021/2022 call-ups.

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Ozuna is Marcell's last name.

Trading him would certainly mean they're going full blow-it-up-and-rebuild-it.


If Ozuna is actually on the trading block, I think just about every team in baseball, certainly including the Rangers, ought to be interested. Good bat, decent defender. Doesn't have a huge contract.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Sell off even MORE young controllable players. Looks like Ozuna and Marcell will be shipped. I would expect them to get 3+/- low-level high upside prospects that project to 2021/2022 call-ups.

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Ozuna is Marcell's last name.

Trading him would certainly mean they're going full blow-it-up-and-rebuild-it.


If Ozuna is actually on the trading block, I think just about every team in baseball, certainly including the Rangers, ought to be interested. Good bat, decent defender. Doesn't have a huge contract.

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Ozuna and Yelich.

My bad...

or maybe they're trying to trade 1 guy twice

Jeter is pretty crafty

toucan82 said:

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or maybe they're trying to trade 1 guy twice

Jeter is pretty crafty

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That would be one way to help scuttle whatever positive image he has left in Miami...

Grienke?

That would be a hell of a deal.

It is certainly is interesting.

Choo - $20M (35-2018), $21M & $21M (37-2020)
Greinke - $34M (34-2019), $34.5M, $35M, $35M (37-2021)

4yr/$138M, is what Greinke has.

Without including Choo, I would rather have Darvish at 5yr/$105M, if you can get him.

Including Choo (and whatever ancillary piece - Profar) makes it a no-brainer to get Greinke, but still a tremendous risk.

With a net increase of 3yr/$41M ($13.5M avg)... you've added the cost of Minor and opened up an OF\DH spot.

Would you still go after another SP like Darvish\Arrieta\Cobb

Ohtani has a grade one UCL sprain. No way that thing holds up over a few years without Tommy John.

I could get behind trading for Greinke and signing Darvish. It's not my money.

That Grienke deal sure seems Fielderesque to me

I'd pass

Ryno01 said:

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That Grienke deal sure seems Fielderesque to me

I'd pass

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But, you get rid of Choo, who will go and become NL-MVP.

AggieDPT said:

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Ohtani has a grade one UCL sprain. No way that thing holds up over a few years without Tommy John.

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Apparently it was disclosed prior to signing to all teams.

I would guess most teams figured for the cost, it was still worth locking him up.

It is looking like my prediction that he won't contribute in a meaningful way in 2018 could play true.

I have to wonder if between his ankle surgery and elbow issue, if he wasn't thinking he needed to get to MLB sooner rather than later. If he needs TJ surgery in 2018, no way he gets a large payout from a MLB team in 2019.

He turns 25 in July 2019.

He had relatively limited use pitching in 2017. It makes me wonder if this was a lingering issue in 2017, which limited his pitching.

I also wonder if JD backed off a bit. It didn't seem so, but I wonder how the teams treated the info. pardon the pun.

It's a grade 1 sprain so jumping the gun a bit on him needing TJS or missing a significant portion of 2018.

And based on what happened in the last week with multiple "finalist" teams trading for more international pool money, doesn't seem like it caused anyone to back off -- there was so much surplus value in a guy like Ohtani that you could sit him for all of 2018 and 2019 and it would still be worth it.

Ohtani sounds like the typical Angel free agent signee! Breaking down before he even gets started though

Grienke has been pretty healthy overall hasn't he? If we can come up with a deal that includes unloading the Choo contract, I'd be interested depending on who else was involved.

free_mhayden said:

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It's a grade 1 sprain so jumping the gun a bit on him needing TJS or missing a significant portion of 2018.

And based on what happened in the last week with multiple "finalist" teams trading for more international pool money, doesn't seem like it caused anyone to back off -- there was so much surplus value in a guy like Ohtani that you could sit him for all of 2018 and 2019 and it would still be worth it.

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There was this additional piece (pardon the pun):

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Passan also notes that the medical reports state that a "small free body" is floating around Ohtani's elbow area, close to his UCL.

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My point goes back to the fact he had limited pitching in 2017 (25.1 IP in 5GS) with little success (BB9 from 2.9 to 6.8, ERA from 2.12 to 3.20). He has had platelet-rich plasma injection in October. He has had no real meaningful stress on his elbow, meaning his elbow is about as clean as it can be right now.

An MRI is a snapshot in time of where a body is. I think it can provide some historical information, but it would be concerning to me. Was this an injury that is a year old and is being rehabbed, or was this suffered during his 5GS.

I agree teams going after more money indicate they think he is worth chasing. The Rangers just gave a ton of money to Minor, Tyson Ross and Cashner last year. So, $20M posting and $3M on a guy you'd pay $500K/yr for the next 3 years isn't a bad investment. Although that comes out to about $8M/year.

I bet he ends up more like the 2017 version of Tyson Ross and less like the 2017 version of Andrew Cashner.

We'll see how things play out.

How does the international money that the Rangers acquired work? Is it spend it or lose it, or does some of that roll forward? There are still a few of those former Braves prospects available, plus I'm sure there is always some 16 year kid in the Dominican or wherever else.

The potential Greinke deal actually makes a bit of sense for both teams. We could dump the Choo contract, add a decent arm to the top of the rotation with Hamels, and free up a DH/OF spot.

KT 90 said:

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How does the international money that the Rangers acquired work? Is it spend it or lose it, or does some of that roll forward? There are still a few of those former Braves prospects available, plus I'm sure there is always some 16 year kid in the Dominican or wherever else.

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A couple points. The Rangers just inked another former Brave prospect for $800K, so it is going fast.

Second... it isn't like they acquired cash. It is a spending cap, which means if they chose to spend money, the allocation is limited statistically.

To answer your question... you lose the cap money if you don't spend it in the cycle it is available.

bigcat22 said:

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The potential Greinke deal actually makes a bit of sense for both teams. We could dump the Choo contract, add a decent arm to the top of the rotation with Hamels, and free up a DH/OF spot.

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I think it makes more sense for the Rangers. That the National League Don't-Have-A-DH Diamondbacks would use an asset such as Zack Grinke on a very well paid 35/36 year old who is on the trade block because the Rangers don't want him near their outfield to "fill a hole" in the outfield...and the other piece would a floundering former prospect...

...that just seems bizarre. I know Grienke has that contract, but still. But hey, to each their own and if that's what Arizona wants, I guess that's what they want.

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Second... it isn't like they acquired cash. It is a spending cap, which means if they chose to spend money, the allocation is limited statistically.

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Yes, I knew it wasn't actual cash, but it is an asset. We traded away some prospects to acquire more of it. Just figure we will try to use as much of it as possible, as long as there is a reasonable prospect out there to use it on.

So we acquired a second former Braves prospect, in addition to the SS from a couple days ago?

I just don't get why Arizona would take that deal unless JD is able to roofie their front office and push the trade through while they are hopped up on goofballs. I get that is a large contract AZ may be regretting now and swapping it for Choo's deal would save a lot of cash. But the fact Choo may be completely useless to them in the NL seems like a big hangup.

KT 90 said:

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Second... it isn't like they acquired cash. It is a spending cap, which means if they chose to spend money, the allocation is limited statistically.

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Yes, I knew it wasn't actual cash, but it is an asset. We traded away some prospects to acquire more of it. Just figure we will try to use as much of it as possible, as long as there is a reasonable prospect out there to use it on.

So we acquired a second former Braves prospect, in addition to the SS from a couple days ago?

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I figured you knew.

Yes.
Yenci Pena - SS - 17/DR: $675K
Keithron Moss - 16/Bahamas: $800K

I believe since they are both former Braves the full amount doesn't come out of the pool money. Something like $200K either total or per player signed does not count. I think the intent is to ensure as many players get signed as possible, knowing most money was already committed.

Any chance the Rangers would be in play for Christian Yelich from the Marlin fire sale? What would it take?

_lefraud_ said:

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Any chance the Rangers would be in play for Christian Yelich from the Marlin fire sale? What would it take?

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If they're not, they should be involved in those discussions.

_lefraud_ said:

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Any chance the Rangers would be in play for Christian Yelich from the Marlin fire sale? What would it take?

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But seriously I think Yelich is under control for the next about 5 or so years.

I think the Marlins want to trade Ozuna moreso that Yelich. But I'm sure they would listen to offers for either. Think Yelich is on a more team friendly deal.

Ozuna is going to St. Louis.