From a "we should give everyone trophies standpoint", I don't want co-MVPs. Also not sure if it's practical given how the voting works.

But at the end of the day, both Westbrook and Harden are deserving and the award clearly seems to mean alot to both them them (and their respective teammates). If somehow co-MVPs occurred organically in the voting process, I'd be cool with it.

(Kawhi is just as deserving IMO, especially given what Harden/Morey have said about the "winning" aspect of the award in recent days, just don't think he's going to win)

Deluxe said:

---

From a "we should give everyone trophies standpoint", I don't want co-MVPs. Also not sure if it's practical given how the voting works.

But at the end of the day, both Westbrook and Harden are deserving and the award clearly seems to mean alot to both them them (and their respective teammates). If somehow co-MVPs occurred organically in the voting process, I'd be cool with it.

(Kawhi is just as deserving IMO, especially given what Harden/Morey have said about the "winning" aspect of the award in recent days, just don't think he's going to win)

---

Good points. The last one is interesting too. Kawhi/Spurs with the 2nd best record in the league sitting at 61 wins with 2 to play. Harden/Rockets with the 3rd best record in the league sitting at 54 wins with 2 to play. Westbrook/Thunder with the 10th best record in the league sitting at 46 wins with 2 to play.

So even if the Thunder win their next two games that would put them at 48. Has a sub-50 win team ever had an MVP winner (not in a lockout year)? Lowest I could find in the last twenty years was Nash 06-07 with 54 wins.

aggie1906 said:

---

I know most of the Mavs fans are loooooong gone, but who are y'all "voting" for?

---

Westbrook. Even when you asked that question.

In my opinion, you have to have 50 wins to be considered. Obviously the people who decide don't share my opinion.

Russell's fans excuse the poor record because he doesn't have any help - but that's his own damn fault. You think LeBron ever has problems getting guys who want to play with him?

Correct, and yes.

CactusThomas said:

---

Correct, and yes.

---

So you're saying that no one wants to play with Russ because KD went to Golden State?

Again - yes, that's what I'm saying.

Sorry I was so unclear initially.

Thanks for clarifying. Pretty infallible logic.

Deluxe said:

---

Thanks for clarifying. Pretty infallible logic.

---

Give him a break dude! He used a sample size of 1. Pretty clear that you can make connections from that.

Deluxe said:

---

Thanks for clarifying. Pretty infallible logic.

---

I go by Cactus Thomas, not Cactus Aristotle. But maybe one of you okie philosophers can help me out.

If not russ, then who is to blame for kd leaving town? Maybe no one, maybe he was just seeking a better opportunity. If that is the case, how did gsw pull it off? Why could they afford 3 stars plus roll players when okc could only afford 2 stars and no roll players?

If that's not the case and okc could afford more talent, why didn't they bring it in?

All I'm trying to say is that I think russ is a big part of the problem. What do y'all think the root cause of the talent void in okc is?

People try to use the talent void as a selling point for Westbrook to win the mvp. I think the void is more of a red flag than a selling point.

CactusThomas said:

---

Deluxe said:

---

Thanks for clarifying. Pretty infallible logic.

---

I go by Cactus Thomas, not Cactus Aristotle. But maybe one of you okie philosophers can help me out.

If not russ, then who is to blame for kd leaving town? Maybe no one, maybe he was just seeking a better opportunity. [This is where you should have stopped typing.] If that is the case, how did gsw pull it off? Why could they afford 3 stars plus roll players when okc could only afford 2 stars and no roll players?

If that's not the case and okc could afford more talent, why didn't they bring it in?

All I'm trying to say is that I think russ is a big part of the problem. What do y'all think the root cause of the talent void in okc is?

People try to use the talent void as a selling point for Westbrook to win the mvp. I think the void is more of a red flag than a selling point.

---

Very interesting looking at the WAR numbers

Wins above replacement?

Yes

Mr.Bond said:

---

Very interesting looking at the WAR numbers

---

Where'd you find them?

mAgnoliAg said:

---

Mr.Bond said:

---

Very interesting looking at the WAR numbers

---

Where'd you find them?

---

It was. Discussed on around the horn. Harden was #1 and Westbrook was 5 I believe

14:00 mark

WAR has been historically bad at measuring defensive impact and the creators have acknowledged as such. Like most of these advanced stats created from linear regression it havs many variables that are non-significant to win percentage which to me makes WAR a fun stat to throw around as fans but not nearly all encompassing when evaluating players impacting a team.

That's fine. There are stats the favor both players
Shots taken, shots missed, 3 pts taken etc

Lol well duh. They play different styles. It's just that a lot of people throw out these stats and have no idea what goes into them or how they were created.

Are you a Rockets fan?

Laugh all you want. Im passionate towards my teams but I'm absolutely a realist. And I recognize greatness from other teams even hated ones

So now we don't consider WAR a good statistic?

Can anyone find a site where NBA WAR is tracked? Can't find it anywhere.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_season.html

Based on this site, Russ set a record this year.

And to the post who said GS could afford 3 stars plus #35, it's a huge help that Curry "only" makes $12m. With both of them eligible for new contracts this year, it will be interesting to see how they manage the cap.

The most ball dominant player in the history of the NBA is putting up stats? Color me shocked. Just give him the trophy and let's move on. I'm not sure I've ever seen in my lifetime an MVP trophy given to a player on a team with a less than zero percent chance of winning a championship

Robinson, David

nbbob said:

---

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_season.html

Based on this site, Russ set a record this year.

And to the post who said GS could afford 3 stars plus #35, it's a huge help that Curry "only" makes $12m. With both of them eligible for new contracts this year, it will be interesting to see how they manage the cap.

---

It is interesting all the unvalidated stats that seem to be floating around. I can't find Blackistone's Harden #1 and Russ #5 in WAR anywhere. Maybe it's coincidental that no one can find what he's referencing. Who knows.

The closest I've been able to find is this. And to caveat, I don't think this means Russ should be the surefire MVP. Other factors play in as well. But just to keep people honest in terms of quoting stats that don't have validation...

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19087982/ranking-westbrook-harden-lebron-kawhi-nba-mvp-best-metrics

It's insider, so here's the gist...

Value Over Replacement Player

Russell Westbrook 11.6
James Harden 8.4
LeBron James 6.8
Kawhi Leonard 6.0

Win Shares

James Harden 14.2
Kawhi Leonard 13.2
Russell Westbrook 12.4
LeBron James 12.1

Estimated Wins Added

Russell Westbrook 26.1
James Harden 23.3
LeBron James 21.8
Kawhi Leonard 20.3

Wins Above Replacement Player

Russell Westbrook 21.7
James Harden 19.5
LeBron James 17.1
Kawhi Leonard 16.5

Real Plus-Minus

LeBron James 16.2
Russell Westbrook 15.9
James Harden 14.5
Kawhi Leonard 12.8

Offensive Impact Per 100 Possessions

Russell Westbrook 9.0
James Harden 8.5
LeBron James 6.5
Kawhi Leonard 6.3

Defensive Impact Per 100 Possessions

Kawhi Leonard 2.0
LeBron James 1.0
Russell Westbrook -0.5
James Harden -1.5

And finally...

Wins Above Replacement

Russell Westbrook 18.4
LeBron James 17.2
James Harden 16.9
Kawhi Leonard 16.3