Man, I am having a hard time getting motivated to drop weight. It's really put a dent in my energy level for lifting.

I've dropped about 13 pounds, a little over 2 pounds a week. But I'm still 14 pounds from my initial goal. 24 pounds from my stretch goal of 210 pounds (definitely not happening).

I think I'm just going to stick to my current diet and wherever that lands me for maintenance is where I will stay. I don't really care how I look right now, I'm more focused on the strength gains. But I will say, I think I look about the same BF% now at 230 as I did at 220 back in September, so I'm happy with my results so far.

Alternatively, if I can find the time I may increase my cardio on my off days and see if that helps a little.

I also have degenerative disks in my lower lumbar spine and a herniated disc at L5 S1. I do weighted bridges instead of dead lifts. I'm a noob at this but it does work the same muscle groups without the risk of getting poor form and tweaking your back.

Did you end up cutting out the daily jug of milk?

Hah, yes that was the main change. Then I cut out my morning overnight oats and just do a protein shake. Those two changes alone should be about 1000 calories. Which tracks with me losing about 2 pounds a week.

I definitely haven't made any extreme lifestyle changes, so I know if I had to, I could drop another 20 pounds. The question is how long would that take and am I willing to sacrifice my strength gains for that long. I'm sure one day the answer will be yes, but for right now, I want to keep focusing on lifting heavier.

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am I willing to sacrifice my strength gains for that long

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CC09LawAg said:

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Man, I am having a hard time getting motivated to drop weight. It's really put a dent in my energy level for lifting.

I've dropped about 13 pounds, a little over 2 pounds a week. But I'm still 14 pounds from my initial goal. 24 pounds from my stretch goal of 210 pounds (definitely not happening).

I think I'm just going to stick to my current diet and wherever that lands me for maintenance is where I will stay. I don't really care how I look right now, I'm more focused on the strength gains. But I will say, I think I look about the same BF% now at 230 as I did at 220 back in September, so I'm happy with my results so far.

Alternatively, if I can find the time I may increase my cardio on my off days and see if that helps a little.

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2 pounds a week is pretty aggressive, no?

For the most part, you can be strong or you can be lean. You can't be both. You want to be strong? Eat. You want to be lean? Don't eat.

oh - and channelling my inner Gomez (let's see how many of you get that reference), you can't out train a ****ty diet.

If I'm figuring it right - you are in your late 30s (based on your user name and my shakey memory). No harm in supplementing with a little Vitamin T. Just do it smart.

Gomez was the H&F OG lifter

Yes, I think I kind of thought of it as taking my medicine quickly and getting it over with - I deloaded and readjusted my training max based off of my actual max out that I did in February. So in my mind, I was going to use the weight loss period to deload and readjust my max.

My first month I did some alternate lifts for supplement work like suitcase deadlifts, zercher squats, etc. to lower the total training volume. This month I kept the weight the same but added back in the main lifts for my 5x5 stuff.

So in a couple of weeks I'll start trying my monthly climb again.

Man, don't get me wrong, I've been tempted. But I don't want to become reliant upon anything that, if not available to me, will totally wreck my body. But I admittedly don't know a ton about it.

My big fear is that this TRT is a trend and a bunch of men get reliant upon it and then all of the sudden, for whatever reason, the supply is limited and hard to come by and then I go from super T to zero T.

I've looked into Clomid and things like that. But it's something I only want to enter into after a lot of research and thought.

Don't do it unless you absolutely have to. A good workout plan, consistency, and a good diet, can yield some pretty amazing results, naturally. Even as I have gotten older, I am still getting stronger and have even leaned out a little bit (but my weight has increased slightly).

I reserve the right to do it a later point in time but I have to really hit a brick wall first, if I even do it.

CC09LawAg said:

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Yes, I think I kind of thought of it as taking my medicine quickly and getting it over with - I deloaded and readjusted my training max based off of my actual max out that I did in February. So in my mind, I was going to use the weight loss period to deload and readjust my max.

My first month I did some alternate lifts for supplement work like suitcase deadlifts, zercher squats, etc. to lower the total training volume. This month I kept the weight the same but added back in the main lifts for my 5x5 stuff.

So in a couple of weeks I'll start trying my monthly climb again.

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Yeah, I don't know if losing alot of weight quick is the way to go, but someone more knowledgeable than me can chime in. Im also contemplating a slight cut here in a few months, but I'll be damned if Im going to lose ALOT of muscle to do it. (I know I will lose some, no way around that).

Hoosegow said:

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For the most part, you can be strong or you can be lean. You can't be both. You want to be strong? Eat. You want to be lean? Don't eat.

oh - and channelling my inner Gomez (let's see how many of you get that reference), you can't out train a ****ty diet.

If I'm figuring it right - you are in your late 30s (based on your user name and my shakey memory). No harm in supplementing with a little Vitamin T. Just do it smart.

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Is this the powerlifter talking? Of course you can't be powerlifter strong and be lean. But can you not be "pretty strong" compared to the population and for health reasons if you lean out a bit?

CC09LawAg said:

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Man, don't get me wrong, I've been tempted. But I don't want to become reliant upon anything that, if not available to me, will totally wreck my body. But I admittedly don't know a ton about it.

My big fear is that this TRT is a trend and a bunch of men get reliant upon it and then all of the sudden, for whatever reason, the supply is limited and hard to come by and then I go from super T to zero T.

I've looked into Clomid and things like that. But it's something I only want to enter into after a lot of research and thought.

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Yeah man, I'm right there with you. I did blood work here a few weeks ago and my T is in the normal range (if a tad low). But I do have a few more symptoms that may indicate I'm not quite running full throttle.

Like you, I really don't want to get on it, but if I do...just a little bump up. Nothing crazy.

Can someone point me toward good places to learn about Macros for building muscle?

Right now I am still in fat loss mode and I am staying pretty steady with lean muscle mass (even losing 2-3 pounds per week).


If I can keep my muscle mass around the same place, I'll stop focusing on fat loss in about 20lbs and jump into building muscle mode - just need to start reading up macros for this.

Honestly, I see stuff all over the place. The simplest thing for me has been to try to eat .8-1g of protein per pound of my goal body weight.

Then I adjust my carb intake based upon how my lifting feels - if I feel lethargic/low energy, I add in an extra servings of carbs a day and give that a week to see how I feel.

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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I reserve the right to do it a later point in time but I have to really hit a brick wall first, if I even do it.

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This is where I'm at - I will research it and look into it, but I think I'll really have to feel stuck to pull the trigger. And even then, I have to ask myself what the end game is here. If I have to change gears because I'm not able to squat 500 or 600 pounds as an amateur lifter, I think I might be able to live with that.

Maybe.

I'm a pretty good place in terms of protein and carbs.

Most of my carbs are eaten before, during and after working out (lifting followed by cardio) and my protein is set at a good level.

I think I'll probably have to raise my calorie intake to grow muscle but I want to get to my body fat % target before I do a DEXA scan to get my BMR.

Why stop at 600lb squats? Keep going!

texag06ish said:

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Can someone point me toward good places to learn about Macros for building muscle?

Right now I am still in fat loss mode and I am staying pretty steady with lean muscle mass (even losing 2-3 pounds per week).


If I can keep my muscle mass around the same place, I'll stop focusing on fat loss in about 20lbs and jump into building muscle mode - just need to start reading up macros for this.

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You are losing muscle if you are losing 2-3 pounds per week (unless you are really big).

As CC09 said, if you eat about 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight and eat in a caloric SURPLUS (macros being 40/40/20 as a good place to start) you will gain some muscle (and yes, some fat too). There is a lot of literature on this regarding if you can get away with maybe about 300-500 caloric surplus a day to build muscle and minimize fat gain or just go for it. Up to you which you want to try.

(I made the mistake for over a decade of trying to stay lean and thinking I could "get stronger or gain some muscle mass." Nope. Not really. You have to effing eat to get bigger and stronger).

I don't know how tall you are, age, height, weight, all that, but if you are lean enough...I'd go ahead a let'er rip on a bulk. Big compound heavy movements. Eat in a surplus. Maybe chase a few strength numbers. Then, depending on how you are feeling in say...6 months...see where you are at. You already know you have the discipline to cut.

I would add - make sure you're doing a lifting program that is truly challenging to you to make the bulk worth it. The first 1 or 2 months of the 5 I was eating, I did not do much different than my usual 5/3/1 workouts.

The last 3 months I pushed myself hard and increased my lifting volume. If you're going to add weight, make sure you're maximizing the window of time during which you do it. Because losing it is a PITA so make the most of the time you've got while gaining.

CC09LawAg said:

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I would add - make sure you're doing a lifting program that is truly challenging to you to make the bulk worth it. The first 1 or 2 months of the 5 I was eating, I did not do much different than my usual 5/3/1 workouts.

The last 3 months I pushed myself hard and increased my lifting volume. If you're going to add weight, make sure you're maximizing the window of time during which you do it. Because losing it is a PITA so make the most of the time you've got while gaining.

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Depending on his training history and all that, I bet he could run a Linear Progression for 6 months and not even mess with 5/3/1. But there is alot we don't know.

This is true. I miss those days. Didn't know how good I had it till it was gone!

CC09LawAg said:

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This is true. I miss those days. Didn't know how good I had it till it was gone!

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Ha, yeah. Ive pretty much hit the end of mine.

I now do version of H/L/M and some back offs (depending on the exercise).

I was pretty big but I'm improving. I started at 324, currently at 222.

Ive been using an Inbody scan machine at my local nutrition shop as a guide and checking in monthly so I know my muscle loss has been minimal (I say that with the understanding that the Inbody scan machine isn't perfect but it's better than nothing).

I got the protein covered - I know the 1 gram rule and started there. Ideally I'd like to start to start upping my calories slowly and tweak…I'd rather not gain fat back if I can avoid it. What's a good place to start finding and reading this literature you referenced?

I'm still not lean enough but I'm trying to plan for the next steps.

texag06ish said:

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I was pretty big but I'm improving. I started at 324, currently at 222.

Ive been using an Inbody scan machine at my local nutrition shop as a guide and checking in monthly so I know my muscle loss has been minimal (I say that with the understanding that the Inbody scan machine isn't perfect but it's better than nothing).

I got the protein covered - I know the 1 gram rule and started there. Ideally I'd like to start to start upping my calories slowly and tweak…I'd rather not gain fat back if I can avoid it. What's a good place to start finding and reading this literature you referenced?

I'm still not lean enough but I'm trying to plan for the next steps.

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WOW! Absolutely fantastic work man. You should be VERY proud of yourself.

Height? Age?

As for the loss of muscle v. fat, yeah...alot of that may very well have been fat due to how high your weight was previously. Alot of the "general rules" are different at both the extremes of weight. That said, I would expect the further lean you go, you will lose more muscle than you have been used to.

Very good idea about upping it slowly and tweaking. This part of nutrition is really tricky to get it dialed in just right. You can try online calorie calculators as a guide, but I found they are not very accurate for me.

As for the literature.
Here is an easy one, but man...there are ALOT of opinions out there.

https://bonytobeastly.com/how-to-bulk-up-fast/#:~:text=The%20first%20group%20gained%201,more%20fat%20(full%20analysis).

Obviously, you are concerned about weight gain due to where you were. That's understandable. Maybe try like a 5% calorie surplus using a basic online calculator...do that for 2 weeks/month, and see where you are at?

Also, try not to be TOO concerned about scale weight (but obviously know it for tracking purposes). Focus on how your shirt, pants, and belt, fit.

Thanks for the info!

Btw, I'm 5' 11". 40 years old.

Once I get to where I think I'm between 15-18% body fat, I'll move to the next step. That said, it's been a while since I cared about the scale but I still track it so I know.

It confuses me that people overwhelmingly seem to enjoy lifting weights and exercising. Now I can understand getting a sense of accomplishment for going to the gym; feeling good that you did something positive for yourself. I can also understand feeling good looking at yourself in the mirror. But people seem to be suggesting that the physical act of weight training (or running or whatever else) gives them joy or pleasure or a dopamine response.

Is this true for people on this thread?

Excellent work so far!

To follow up on what Tex has said, depending on how consistent you are daily with your diet, I think the easiest thing you could do is just start simple, like adding something in to your daily routine that you know for a fact is 500 calories and high protein/low fat. Do that for a month or so, and see how things are going.

It may not be "enough", but I'd rather err on the low end and scale your calories up, then way overconsume and look up in 3 months and be unhappy with the amount of weight you've gained.

It can be as simple as adding a cup of yogurt with some granola, or a chicken breast with white rice. But something that you can do consistently so that you can track it easily.

For me, this is not the case every day or every workout. Some days, when I hit a PR, or do something truly impressive, or a large weight moves way easier than it should have, I will get an immediate rush/dopamine response and be happy. But that is obviously fleeting and not my main motivation.

For me, you put in the work and the time to chase that feeling, knowing that the further along you move in the process, the less often you get to feel it, but then the times you do get to feel it feel even better.

So, to answer you question - sometimes. You grind for weeks on end and do it even on the days you don't want to so that once every 3 months you can maybe feel that way.

My diet is really consistent. I consume 2300 calories daily. In March I have averaged 239 grams of protein, 73 grams of fat and 191 grams of carbs daily.

My protein intake is probably high right now but that's where I wind up without feeling hungry or miserable. I do my best to take protein in 30 gram increments.

My average calorie deficit is -738 daily. That is calculated by using my Apple Watch as a guide and reducing the total calories by 20% (I read Apple Watch can overestimate by as much as 20% so I just reduce the number by 20%).

I figured you'd be on point with tracking and consistent with what you're doing based on how much you've lost. I know you have to be pretty meticulous and locked in to do what you've done.

That is what has worked for me in the past, since I don't consider myself sophisticated with all of this stuff like a lot of others here probably are - I knew if I had locked in my daily calories to keep me hovering within a few pounds of a certain weight for weeks or months, that gave me a good baseline. So if I'm going to introduce a new variable, I try to make it very consistent - same meal, same time of day, every day. That way when I'm evaluating its impact in a month, or 3 months, or whatever, I don't have to worry about any extra "noise" if I added or subtracted a bunch of different types of food.

Eventually I'll scale back my daily cardio to help lower my deficit but currently my main objectives are to 1) get to 15-18% body fat and 2) get my visceral fat level to 10% or below.

texag06ish said:

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Eventually I'll scale back my daily cardio to help lower my deficit but currently my main objectives are to 1) get to 15-18% body fat and 2) get my visceral fat level to 10% or below.

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Just be advised this thread is not supportive of jogging, in any shape or form.