I recently bought some knock off alpha gripz on Amazon to see if I can gain some addition grip strength that is transferable to deadlift gainz. Will have to report progress here in a couple months.

10andBOUNCE said:

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I recently bought some knock off alpha gripz on Amazon to see if I can gain some addition grip strength that is transferable to deadlift gainz. Will have to report progress here in a couple months.

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Are you over under? Hook grip? Or double overhand?

Regular double overhand

Any of you guys just use chalk for grip? In all my years of deadlifting, I've never used anything beyond that and I've never failed a deadlift due to losing my grip. I also always use a mixed grip. I know a lot of commercial gyms don't like you using chalk, but I recently started using liquid chalk, which seems to work fine.

Chalk is all I use with my mixed grip.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Regular double overhand

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Maybe its time to try the mixed grip or hook grip?

Why not use lifting straps when you get heavy?

As I said before, I just feel like straps are eliminating part of the lift. For me anyways, if I need help gripping it, it's too heavy. Instead of trying to progress with weight more than I can hold, I will typically do some kind of deficit work for additional challenge if needed.

I do use chalk for sure.

I used to use mixed grip all the time. I stopped when I tweaked my hip/piriformis. I don't know for sure but I think less than optimal form from pulling mixed was the cause. Anyway, it's more of just a fun personal challenge to just go straight overhand and no straps.

I didn't check the page before.

I see where you are coming from, but your also letting a small muscles hold you back a little from developing others.

10andBOUNCE said:

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I used to use mixed grip all the time. I stopped when I tweaked my hip/piriformis. I don't know for sure but I think less than optimal form from pulling mixed was the cause. Anyway, it's more of just a fun personal challenge to just go straight overhand and no straps.

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Hook grip not an option either?

Either way, fair enough, but know that when you get heavy enough, even all the strong men" use straps.

Just a friendly reminder, you are prone to rupturing a bicep with a mixed grip. I've seen it happen several times.

Go to about 1:50

I can't watch those kind of videos, ha.

I have seen way too many of these videos and almost all of them tearing a bicep are with mixed grip. It is probably irrational but I will never use it because of that lol

I don't do traditional deadlifts so that probably helps...

Hoose - you ever do supinated grip barbell rows? I have had them in my program before and feel like they hit lats a little better but I also think it puts a lot of strain on the biceps. I normally do heavy T-bar or barbell over hand grip but will occasionally incorporate them in for change or if the program I am doing calls for it. Just curious if you have any of your thoughts on it?

If you are competing you almost have to use a mixed grip or a hook grip. If you are not, it doesn't really matter. The mixed grip is superior to the double overhand because the bar is always fighting against itsefl, but is prone to bicep ruptures. The hook grip - eff that. I tried and tried to learn the hook grip having torn my left bicep when I was 40 (changing a tire, not lifting). It was too painful and I don't think my hands are big enough, either. Everybody in my lifting group has tried the hook grip. Everyone went back to a mixed grip.

As for your grip question on the rows, understand this is coming from a powerlifting perspective, I don't see much benefit from a suppinated grip row. For overall strength, if you are wanting big lats, pull ups, pull ups and more pull ups. If your are looking for something just to tweak some stimulus targets, sure, it makes sense. Hell, if you just like to do them, by all means do them. I think curls are one of the most overused worthless exercises that is out there. If you don't believe me, answer this question. If curls worked to get big arm, given the amount of time the average gym rat spends on curls, there should be tons of bicep monsters out there. Don't get me wrong, I still have to do them from time to time, because I'm still brainwashed a little. To get back to my point, if you are wanting bigger lats, bigger arms, bigger legs, focus on compound movements and just get overall bigger.

That was way too detailed, but not completely understanding your question, I rambled. If your question was you are wanting more work on your lats - pull ups, pull ups, pull ups. If you are just wanting a different stimuli, then there should be no harm in it.

No you answered my question perfectly - thank you!

I think they have been in a few programs to "prep" the elbows or warm them up right before going into bicep exercises (push day). I've always just found them to be a variation that places more emphasis on the biceps, lowering the weight I am able to row, and then wondering why the hell I am doing them in the first place.

I almost exclusively focus on over hand grip (Barbell or T-Bar) or neutral grip rows (Meadows Row/Trap Bar Row/Machine Row/Dumbell Row) but wanted to bounce the idea off of you.

I appreciate it!

No worries, The grip question got me thinking about the past. Looked up this guy on Youtube. He was part of the group that I trained with for several years. He tore his bicep deadlifting in a competition. After trying so hard to go to a hook grip, he went back to the mixed grip. He was easilty the strogest guy in our group. I had bigger numbers, but I competed equipped. It's like competing in two different classes in a drag race.



By the way - you can see hoose in the video.

Hoosegow said:

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No worries, The grip question got me thinking about the past. Looked up this guy on Youtube. He was part of the group that I trained with for several years. He tore his bicep deadlifting in a competition. After trying so hard to go to a hook grip, he went back to the mixed grip. He was easilty the strogest guy in our group. I had bigger numbers, but I competed equipped. It's like competing in two different classes in a drag race.



By the way - you can see hoose in the video.

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Man....Do you have any tips for tall guys with long femurs/short torso for squatting?

I've been working on my form for months, and its still garbage. (Low bar).

Without seeing you squat, not really. It could be weak hips, weak back, too narrow of a stance, footplacement, grip, form...

Hoosegow said:

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Without seeing you squat, not really. It could be weak hips, weak back, too narrow of a stance, footplacement, grip, form...

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Ugh. Yeah. i hear ya. Everything is fine, tight and strong till parallel, but anything past that to IPF depth, it all falls apart. Hips further back? Im off balance and either (i) fall forward trying to get it all over the midfoot, or (ii) everythign is too far back and I have zero power as a feel like Im about to fall over.

Getting pretty frustrated. Been at this for like 6 months, not adding a ton of weight (but trying to keep form correct), I'm 6'5" long femurs, short torso, and tall hips.

When I catch myself losing balance, I really try to focus on my feet and screwing them into the ground/focus on ripping the ground apart between my feet.

This usually helps me keep the bar over midfoot and keeps me from falling forward, which is what I usually have issues with on balancing my low bar squat.

Also, I'm assuming you are wearing totally flat shoes/doing it barefoot, but if not obviously that is something easy you can address.

CC09LawAg said:

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When I catch myself losing balance, I really try to focus on my feet and screwing them into the ground/focus on ripping the ground apart between my feet.

This usually helps me keep the bar over midfoot and keeps me from falling forward, which is what I usually have issues with on balancing my low bar squat.

Also, I'm assuming you are wearing totally flat shoes/doing it barefoot, but if not obviously that is something easy you can address.

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I just don't understand the ripping the ground apart with my feet cue. It puts a bizarre pressure on my knees. Pressing through the whole foot is something Im going to be mindful of tonight. I have a tendency to get up on my toes.

I wear the slightly lifted heeled weightlifting shoes.

Rip the floor apart is a bad cue if you dont know the corresponding movement. To understand what it means, put a towel on the floor. Get into your normal stance on the towel. Try to grip the towel with your toes. Then try to rip the towel apart without your heals coming up. You will feel like you look stupid, but the muscles will respond accordingly. Once you get that, you will understand rip the floor apart.

IF and i mean IF, your only concern is big weight, box squat with chains or bands. Learn to explode off of the box without losing tightness. Your numbers WILL go up.

Finally, use a cambered bar with no chains or bands.
It will humble you and show everywhere you are messing up.

Hoosegow said:

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Rip the floor apart is a bad cue if you dont know the corresponding movement. To understand what it means, put a towel on the floor. Get into your normal stance on the towel. Try to grip the towel with your toes. Then try to rip the towel apart without your heals coming up. You will feel like you look stupid, but the muscles will respond accordingly. Once you get that, you will understand rip the floor apart.

IF and i mean IF, your only concern is big weight, box squat with chains or bands. Learn to explode off of the box without losing tightness. Your numbers WILL go up.

Finally, use a cambered bar with no chains or bands.
It will humble you and show everywhere you are messing up.

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Interesting, but still, I feel like if I did this, it would put alot of lateral pressure on the outside of my knees. (Like when I try and "rip the floor apart").

Im not worried about a ton of weight yet, I just want to get this form right (Im using enough to challenge me so I'm not just relaxing and then snapping it back up because its so light).

Thats for talking this out. Ive been incredibly frustrated for months. I just cant get down past parallel without it all absolutely falling apart.

Thats where you are wrong. Try it with no weight. Put a towel on the floor. Try to grab it with your toes. Use your hips, outer quads and calve to try and rip the towel apart. You dont even have to squat more than half way and you will feel the difference.

So the lift and the cues....

Damn it is so hard to explain...

I'm not on Hoose's level at all and totally defer to him on lifting heavy stuff, but I would think about losing the elevated heel for low bar squats. I think it's a good thing for your goals with a high bar squat, but it seems like it may be counterproductive for low bar technique.

Lol LAW... id ditch the heel too. Chucks or nuthin

I'm definitely no powerlifter, but I also think simply stripping the weight down until you truly can squat below paralell and start your journey back upwards in weight from there over time will give you better overall strength and mobility. I don't squat heavy at all, but controlling weight with squatting well below parallel has given me amazing mobility and still develops muscle

You may already be doing this anyway, so apologies if this seems simplistic

This for sure. When I felt the aches and pains of bad form, I would deload quite a bit and work my way back up and it always seemed to sort itself out.

The other thing I just thought of that I have done is done some unilateral leg work every few months when I take a break from lifting heavy - Bulgarian split squats, lunges, one leg straight leg deadlifts, ATG split squats…not sure if there's any correlation there but my depth on my squats has definitely improved over the past year.

Hoosegow said:

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Thats where you are wrong. Try it with no weight. Put a towel on the floor. Try to grab it with your toes. Use your hips, outer quads and calve to try and rip the towel apart. You dont even have to squat more than half way and you will feel the difference.

So the lift and the cues....

Damn it is so hard to explain...

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Its very hard to explain! And its easy to do it this way. I have no problem hitting depth at light weight. I needed a little resistance to really commit to this.

And last night, I did have a break through and was able to hit IPF depth with challenging weight (for me). I have to start at the top of the squat with breaking at the hips first...load up my hamstrings...then lower...feeling that tension the whole time. As I lower, I push out the knees, and keep riding it down...then...one last push out with the knees to hit depth and drive up with everything thought being HIPS HIPS HIPS. (I want to be in my quads). Being so tall (with tall hips and long femur), my butt is in another zip code. That takes some getting used to.

In a way, my knee pain helps a bit as it gives me a tactile que that if it starts hurting, I know im too far forward. If im in my hips, it doesn't hurt.

I know better squatters break at the knees and hips and the same time, but that's not working for me right now as I want to be in my quads...I need the tactile cue of my hamstrings tightening.

Hoosegow said:

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Lol LAW... id ditch the heel too. Chucks or nuthin

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Why? Everything I've read says that the shoes should help get depth?

True Anomaly said:

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I'm definitely no powerlifter, but I also think simply stripping the weight down until you truly can squat below paralell and start your journey back upwards in weight from there over time will give you better overall strength and mobility. I don't squat heavy at all, but controlling weight with squatting well below parallel has given me amazing mobility and still develops muscle

You may already be doing this anyway, so apologies if this seems simplistic

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Thanks for the advice, and I've tried this. Its not a matter of ego lifting. Its doing what I'm supposed to do under a load thats challenging. Its got to be just heavy enough for me to HAVE to use proper form rather being so light, I can get away with relaxing at the bottom to hit depth, or quickly hop into my quads at the bottom.

And thanks for all the advice on here!

For me, the elevated heel is good for a high bar squat or front squat, where you are more upright, your stance is generally narrower, and you're focused more on your quads. The elevated heel allows you to get deeper into your squat and not be as limited by your ankle mobility.

I think they're counterproductive for the goals of a low bar squat, which is to move as much weight as possible; the stance isn't meant to focus as much on the quads. Your stance is wider, so your ankle mobility shouldn't be as limiting. I think it would cause me to lean too far forward if my heels were elevated. I already have trouble with falling forward with totally flat shoes.

Tex117 said:

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I wear the slightly lifted heeled weightlifting shoes.

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My very non-expert critique of this is that most of those kinds of shoes have a VERY narrow toe box. IMO everything starts at the ground with your feet and a good shoe (or barefoot) is everything.