It'll be interesting to see if they can hit their price target. Dual motor cybertruck for 50k is cheaper than a new model Y that has worse specs.

At least with Ford you know the price won't change once they set it. Tesla changes their prices all the time by huge amounts

Curious what the towing range will be. My guess is that a medium size travel trailer will reduce the range of any of the electric trucks to less than 100 miles.

Maybe Buc-ee's is ultimately planning on having lots of long distance travelers spending an hour or more in their stores while waiting for their vehicle to recharge.

pf2200 said:

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Curious what the towing range will be. My guess is that a medium size travel trailer will reduce the range of any of the electric trucks to less than 100 miles.

Maybe Buc-ee's is ultimately planning on having lots of long distance travelers spending an hour or more in their stores while waiting for their vehicle to recharge.

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You mean the same chain that sells food but purposefully doesn't have tables to get people in and out as quickly as possible?

Quote:

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Curious what the towing range will be.

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The problem with this being an F-150 is the comparisons to what petro powered F-150s can do. This vehicle is what I would call 'fit for purpose'. Putting on an actual load should give the expected major rise in energy used; thus greatly reducing the distance.

I think of this as a local only vehicle; not a travel vehicle. For that purpose it will work for me.

If I get one, I do not envision hooking up a boat and heading down the Texas coast. I may pull a boat locally.

Right. I also expect to see range reductions on the same level you get when towing. If your 16 mpg truck drops to 9, I'd expect a 300 mile battery to drop to 160.

chimpanzee said:

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1agswitchin4lanes said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm wondering who's going to make an aftermarket diesel generator and fuel pack that fits in the Frunk that extends the range and can charge away from a station.

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Ford should offer it with a Ford Accessory (TM) hood stack kit....

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People are going to come up with all manner of goofy options, it will be awesome. You could fit a pretty big generator and fuel tank in the bed. If you can get the right cables and stable current at the right voltage (or whatever, I'm no EE) you could have a pretty well engineered redneck range extender.

Think what you could do with an aero optimized trailer. You could Pony Express your way across the country with a trailer swap and nearly zero down time to recharge if you didn't want to.

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This will not work for the simple fact that all EVs cannot charge and be in drive at the same time. You'll have to modified the software first.

With their emphasis on the work level truck only costing $39K, I would imagine fleet is their biggest target. Even the 230 mile range would be sufficient for the majority of local fleet vehicles. Not sure how the tax credits play in with many businesses choosing to lease though.

I definitely like this idea, but I do occasionally pull a trailer to my deer lease 120 miles away in BFE and would be seriously concerned about the range decrease while towing. Also how long it's going to take when my destination doesn't have anything more than a 120V available for me to charge with.

aggieforester05 said:

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With their emphasis on the work level truck only costing $39K, I would imagine fleet is their biggest target. Even the 230 mile range would be sufficient for the majority of local fleet vehicles. Not sure how the tax credits play in with many businesses choosing to lease though.

I definitely like this idea, but I do occasionally pull a trailer to my deer lease 120 miles away in BFE and would be seriously concerned about the range decrease while towing. Also how long it's going to take when my destination doesn't have anything more than a 120V available for me to charge with.

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Does your deer lease have 220v service? Wire in a 50A breaker and dryer outlet and buy a generic level 2 plug off Amazon.

Price is good and range is ok for their first shot at this. I think it'll be a winner long term for Ford.

AggieFrog said:

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I put a deposit down for one. Wish the range was closer to 400 miles, but this covers the vast majority of my needs. It'll cover the round trip to our land out by Abilene from Fort Worth and I can plug it in while there. Otherwise, most of our driving is well less than 300 miles/day outside of road trips a couple of times a year and Scout summer camp once a year. Ford did a fantastic job IMO.

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From my EV range experience depending on how far from Abilene on the FTW side you are talking, I give you a 97% chance of not being able to make that drive roundtrip.

300 miles is really more like 230/240 at highway speeds with A/C on.

Congrats on taking the plunge though. Hope you love it.

Flaith said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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With their emphasis on the work level truck only costing $39K, I would imagine fleet is their biggest target. Even the 230 mile range would be sufficient for the majority of local fleet vehicles. Not sure how the tax credits play in with many businesses choosing to lease though.

I definitely like this idea, but I do occasionally pull a trailer to my deer lease 120 miles away in BFE and would be seriously concerned about the range decrease while towing. Also how long it's going to take when my destination doesn't have anything more than a 120V available for me to charge with.

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Does your deer lease have 220v service? Wire in a 50A breaker and dryer outlet and buy a generic level 2 plug off Amazon.

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Sure and I'm capable of doing so, but many people aren't. That doesn't necessarily help at less frequented locations, like the average hotel.

AggieKatie2 said:

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AggieFrog said:

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I put a deposit down for one. Wish the range was closer to 400 miles, but this covers the vast majority of my needs. It'll cover the round trip to our land out by Abilene from Fort Worth and I can plug it in while there. Otherwise, most of our driving is well less than 300 miles/day outside of road trips a couple of times a year and Scout summer camp once a year. Ford did a fantastic job IMO.

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From my EV range experience depending on how far from Abilene on the FTW side you are talking, I give you a 97% chance of not being able to make that drive roundtrip.

300 miles is really more like 230/240 at highway speeds with A/C on.

Congrats on taking the plunge though. Hope you love it.

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230 gets me there and back. Would need to charge there as well just for added margin.

That price makes it really tempting.

Looks like the 'base' model will be called "Lightning Pro"

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/

How will anyone know the "Pro" is an electric truck w/o the unnecessary front lighting strip that screams "im electric!!!"

This whole idea is ill conceived until they can hugely improve range (while doing real pickup tasks like towing) and charging time. In the meantime, if I were in the market for a new truck today, the F150 hybrid seems like its good at everything all at the same time: acceleration, towing, gas mileage, powering all of your tools or camping gear.

(If I already made this point earlier, tough crap - I'm a boomer and my brilliance sometimes bears repeating)

cav14 said:

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chimpanzee said:

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1agswitchin4lanes said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm wondering who's going to make an aftermarket diesel generator and fuel pack that fits in the Frunk that extends the range and can charge away from a station.

---

Ford should offer it with a Ford Accessory (TM) hood stack kit....

---

People are going to come up with all manner of goofy options, it will be awesome. You could fit a pretty big generator and fuel tank in the bed. If you can get the right cables and stable current at the right voltage (or whatever, I'm no EE) you could have a pretty well engineered redneck range extender.

Think what you could do with an aero optimized trailer. You could Pony Express your way across the country with a trailer swap and nearly zero down time to recharge if you didn't want to.

---

This will not work for the simple fact that all EVs cannot charge and be in drive at the same time. You'll have to modified the software first.

---

Not sure what it would take to run and charge a powertrain like that at the same time; maybe isolate certain cells from the battery back at a time. I'm sure someone has done the math on it from a theoretical standpoint even if it is practically useless.

Maybe boat/UTV trailers will come with a generator in the future.

chimpanzee said:

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cav14 said:

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chimpanzee said:

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1agswitchin4lanes said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

---

I'm wondering who's going to make an aftermarket diesel generator and fuel pack that fits in the Frunk that extends the range and can charge away from a station.

---

Ford should offer it with a Ford Accessory (TM) hood stack kit....

---

People are going to come up with all manner of goofy options, it will be awesome. You could fit a pretty big generator and fuel tank in the bed. If you can get the right cables and stable current at the right voltage (or whatever, I'm no EE) you could have a pretty well engineered redneck range extender.

Think what you could do with an aero optimized trailer. You could Pony Express your way across the country with a trailer swap and nearly zero down time to recharge if you didn't want to.

---

This will not work for the simple fact that all EVs cannot charge and be in drive at the same time. You'll have to modified the software first.

---

Not sure what it would take to run and charge a powertrain like that at the same time; maybe isolate certain cells from the battery back at a time. I'm sure someone has done the math on it from a theoretical standpoint even if it is practically useless.

Maybe boat/UTV trailers will come with a generator in the future.

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Honestly, if you were able to double your battery capacity (or double the number of batteries), you would be able to use one set while the other charged. Then you could essentially flip it and start charging the other. Which could technically allow for continuous driving and longer range, but that's not really efficient.

The more efficient method at that point would be to just extend the range past what someone is able to drive continuously for. Hit something like 600 miles and you'd be golden.

Buck Compton said:

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chimpanzee said:

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cav14 said:

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chimpanzee said:

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1agswitchin4lanes said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

I'm wondering who's going to make an aftermarket diesel generator and fuel pack that fits in the Frunk that extends the range and can charge away from a station.

---

Ford should offer it with a Ford Accessory (TM) hood stack kit....

---

People are going to come up with all manner of goofy options, it will be awesome. You could fit a pretty big generator and fuel tank in the bed. If you can get the right cables and stable current at the right voltage (or whatever, I'm no EE) you could have a pretty well engineered redneck range extender.

Think what you could do with an aero optimized trailer. You could Pony Express your way across the country with a trailer swap and nearly zero down time to recharge if you didn't want to.

---

This will not work for the simple fact that all EVs cannot charge and be in drive at the same time. You'll have to modified the software first.

---

Not sure what it would take to run and charge a powertrain like that at the same time; maybe isolate certain cells from the battery back at a time. I'm sure someone has done the math on it from a theoretical standpoint even if it is practically useless.

Maybe boat/UTV trailers will come with a generator in the future.

---

Honestly, if you were able to double your battery capacity (or double the number of batteries), you would be able to use one set while the other charged. Then you could essentially flip it and start charging the other. Which could technically allow for continuous driving and longer range, but that's not really efficient.

The more efficient method at that point would be to just extend the range past what someone is able to drive continuously for. Hit something like 600 miles and you'd be golden.

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The problem there is the size and weight of that battery pack along with the charging requirements. With current technology, this is not likely a feasible solution - the vehicle would be overweight and not likely to charge overnight.

That's why it was a theoretical post. Completely agree that it isn't efficient or even feasible with current tech.

Storing energy is a ***** of a problem to solve. Storing potential electrical energy is even harder. That's why all the materials we use in batteries have to be so nasty.

"Breakthroughs" in battery technology will mean revolutionary new ways in approaching the theoretical problem, not just organizing them better or using a marginally better material.

From AggieFrog

Quote:

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The problem there is the size and weight of that battery pack along with the charging requirements.

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AKA energy density and time to refuel. The time to recharge is the real painful point. Even if could get 200 miles over a 30 minute recharge time would be a deal changer for many.

From Ogre09

Quote:

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Liquid hydrocarbons are a pretty simple and efficient way to store energy...

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Correct. Easy to store, easy to transfer, easy to convert to work. However we (collectively) voted to get rid of liquid hydrocarbons as a method of energy consumption. Petro power is on the way out; either get with the program or encounter pain later. I for one am planning to not buy a gasoline powered late model again. Either electric or diesel.

(hope someone shows me this comment in a few years to tell me how wrong I was)

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I watched a review of the Lightning from an invitee to the Ford proving grounds. This is an impressive vehicle. For local use, it is usable from day one. Long term, the electrics will only improve.

aggieforester05 said:

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How did "we collectively vote to get rid of liquid hydrocarbons"?

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States passing regulations on not registering gas powered vehicles is the most prominent example. Recent presidential elections resulting in expanded EPA regulations and requirements. We "collectively" put in policies to eliminate hydrocarbons as a working fuel.

This is somewhat of an automotive discussion, but might be better served on F16

TxAggieBand85 said:

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From AggieFrog

Quote:

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The problem there is the size and weight of that battery pack along with the charging requirements.

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AKA energy density and time to refuel. The time to recharge is the real painful point. Even if could get 200 miles over a 30 minute recharge time would be a deal changer for many.

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Per Ford, the Lightning will be capable of a fast charge from 15% to 80% in 41 minutes (that's 195 miles in 41 minutes).

AggieFrog said:

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TxAggieBand85 said:

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From AggieFrog

Quote:

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The problem there is the size and weight of that battery pack along with the charging requirements.

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AKA energy density and time to refuel. The time to recharge is the real painful point. Even if could get 200 miles over a 30 minute recharge time would be a deal changer for many.

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Per Ford, the Lightning will be capable of a fast charge from 15% to 80% in 41 minutes (that's 195 miles in 41 minutes).

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Even if half true, this will be approaching journey vehicle usefulness; assuming a charging locations are available.

I owned a 1999 4x4 4Runner. It had a 220 mile range and I could road trip it. Filling fuel in 6 minutes vs. 40 minutes is a large difference.

Maybe this has been discussed and I missed it but forgive my ignorance because I have never really looked into EVs.

Is there a standardized charger for all of the different brands of EVs? I see the Tesla charging stations most frequently but I am assuming Fords cannot pull up to them and charge as well? With my current gas powered car I know I can stop at any gas station and fill up without issue but I assume that not all EVs can charge at different branded charging stations?

Mr07Ag said:

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Maybe this has been discussed and I missed it but forgive my ignorance because I have never really looked into EVs.

Is there a standardized charger for all of the different brands of EVs? I see the Tesla charging stations most frequently but I am assuming Fords cannot pull up to them and charge as well? With my current gas powered car I know I can stop at any gas station and fill up without issue but I assume that not all EVs can charge at different branded charging stations?

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Yes, Tesla has done an exceptional job building out charging infrastructure in parallel with their vehicle development. It's been my opinion that their long term viability is going to be less about their ability to design and build cars/trucks and more towards licensing charging, battery, and OTA data technology to the "big boys" in the industry.

If they let Toyota, GM, Ford, VW catch up to them in this, with a more generic "whole industry" approach to charging and lifestyle vs. platform-only like Tesla, they are going to be completely eroded in ~3-5 years. They got the jump out of the gate and are positioned well to integrate, but there's just no way they can maintain this pace in the face of the budding competition.

TxAggieBand85 said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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How did "we collectively vote to get rid of liquid hydrocarbons"?

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States passing regulations on not registering gas powered vehicles is the most prominent example. Recent presidential elections resulting in expanded EPA regulations and requirements. We "collectively" put in policies to eliminate hydrocarbons as a working fuel.

This is somewhat of an automotive discussion, but might be better served on F16

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I'll leave the political point to say that respectfully I vehemently disagree with your assessment on so many levels that I agree that it's best to leave it to forum 16. So in an effort to prevent derailing this thread let's try to leave the politics out of further discussion unless it relates specifically to EVs (ex. Subsidies for purchase of the lightning).

That being said, liquid hydrocarbons are going nowhere anytime soon, unless we plan to eliminate air travel, most interstate commerce, plastics, cars for people that can't afford EVs. We'd also need to revolutionarily increase our power generation and storage overnight. The former would be unimaginably expensive and the political will to do so would be lacking. The latter is not technologically plausible without huge leaps in scientific discovery.

I'm certainly glad that we're getting some awesome options for alternative powered vehicles including electric and hybrid. Gas powered cars will be around for a long time coming and I think we'll find that a mixture of the two will be a good thing. Over time market forces will slowly erode the need for liquid hydrocarbons to fuel personal vehicles and that will be good and bad in different ways as far as environmental concerns.

As far as the lightning, I think it's going to make a great vehicle for local use, but for those of us whose truck is their primary travel vehicle, it's not feasible. I do like the idea of the torque and the simplicity of the electric motor powertrain from the perspective of someone with a heavy foot. I will miss the sound and feel of the gas engines, especially supercharged V8s like the Gen 2 lightning had.

I know it's not a popular opinion, because the fake noise crowd is very vocal (no pun intended), but I do hope that someday sporty vehicles will be able to accurately simulate that excitement of the gasoline era beasts. Say for example, your car can enter a mode where it has a transmission lever and pedal that can accurately simulate a manual transmission. It may even simulate accurately the sound, vibrations and feel of our favorite ICE powertrains. Your car could feel like a C6 ZR1 when you want it to and then be able to put it into autopilot and cruise like the quietest Tesla when in you're in that kind of mood. The possibilities are endless and I hope things don't go the way of boring soulless appliances that do everything for you with no excitement.

Ogre09 said:

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I think we eventually move to all/mostly EV vehicles, but I'd prefer it happen by true preference. Ford's Ecoboost engines met pushback from V8 traditionalists, but are mostly now the preferred option because it's truly superior. When battery electric vehicles outperform gas vehicles, then folks will make the switch.

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I agree with this for the most part. Also look at lawn equipment, growing up my dad laughed at electric blowers, etc. Now they're all over the place and preferred in most applications. There will always be hold outs though and always a place for ice. Batteries have a long way to go, though, to be a complete replacement, in terms of life, recharging speed, ranges under loads (hauling), price, and even lithium alternatives. But I do think those advances will come quickly.