Can we revisit the CSISD Bond Discussion (signs are up, voting day approaches)

52,345 Views | 460 Replies | Last: 26 days ago by Stupe
Cartographer
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CSHS is actually in the wrong location if this is your premise. It should have been built at Fitch and 6.
TAMU1990
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SARATOGA said:

Which is why Consol should be turned into something else, as the facility is too old, and the population with kids has moved south. We don't need a 3rd high school, we need a 2nd high school in the correct location which fixes zoning issues to common sense as well as the new school vs old school debate for resources.
That's really outside the box and I'm willing to listen to suggestions, but I am in the I don't agree camp. I think it can be done properly. We will need a third HS eventually. Fixing the one we already have is probably cheaper.

According to a former employee of the district, the percentages of Castle Gate and Pebble Creek 2021 vote totals were relatively similar. Pebble Creek is a larger subdivision with a significant retiree and empty nester population who may be more inclined to vote no. Generally, this population votes against tax increases.

Unless Castle Gate has had a significant demographic change in the past 10 years, I'd say there are families with school aged children living in Castle Gate that don't want the tax increase either. 2021 failed because the district didn't communicate or present it well.

I'd suggest to the new Super to focus on both of these neighborhoods. Go to PCCC and talk with the retirees, go to luncheons at senior citizen centers, invite clergy to a presentation and tour both high schools. Ask for their assistance. Canvass Castle Gate, attend neighborhood HOAs, explain why Consol needs to be updated.
AggieKatie2
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gbennett said:

A few thoughts on this thread from a member of the bond committee and someone involved with the local softball/baseball community:

The softball/baseball community is united on this issue and wants Consol to be updated as the bond detailed. There is no purple v. maroon on this issue.

There was "limited" marketing from the district on why voting for Prop C & D was advantageous for the community.

The district did not want the story of the fields told through pictures and videos, which I believe hindered additional yes votes.

The new Super has a baseball background and evidently experience getting athletics bonds passed. We will see what he does from this point.

This is not about building a taj mahal or keeping up with others. It is about safety/risk management, fiscal responsibility, athletic performance and development, and meeting basic competition space requirements for a district that prides itself on "excellence".

In no way do I want to be taxed, however, this is a simple cost-benefit analysis that accounts for the very minor change in our taxes. Having lived in several states, across different university towns, it is easy to see where a lot of our (high) tax $ goes locally and it helps our kids. C & D should have passed.


We voted. Respect our decision. Classrooms are the priority right now, not athletic fields. We approved the largest general bond ever for this area and it's still not enough for the board.
Stupe
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"Respect our decision".

I always find it funny when people say or post that.

Respect it or what?
Tailgate88
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TAMU1990 said:

SARATOGA said:

Which is why Consol should be turned into something else, as the facility is too old, and the population with kids has moved south. We don't need a 3rd high school, we need a 2nd high school in the correct location which fixes zoning issues to common sense as well as the new school vs old school debate for resources.
That's really outside the box and I'm willing to listen to suggestions, but I am in the I don't agree camp. I think it can be done properly. We will need a third HS eventually. Fixing the one we already have is probably cheaper.

According to a former employee of the district, the percentages of Castle Gate and Pebble Creek 2021 vote totals were relatively similar. Pebble Creek is a larger subdivision with a significant retiree and empty nester population who may be more inclined to vote no. Generally, this population votes against tax increases.

Unless Castle Gate has had a significant demographic change in the past 10 years, I'd say there are families with school aged children living in Castle Gate that don't want the tax increase either. 2021 failed because the district didn't communicate or present it well.

I'd suggest to the new Super to focus on both of these neighborhoods. Go to PCCC and talk with the retirees, go to luncheons at senior citizen centers, invite clergy to a presentation and tour both high schools. Ask for their assistance. Canvass Castle Gate, attend neighborhood HOAs, explain why Consol needs to be updated.
This is what needs to happen. Come up with a bond that does nothing except get Consol facilities up to the same level as CSHS. Produce and promote a video presentation of the issues at Consol now so people understand why it is needed and the extent of the current disparity between facilities.
AggieKatie2
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Stupe said:

"Respect our decision".

I always find it funny when people say or post that.

Respect it or what?


WTH?!?! Is it a problem to ask elected officials and government employees to respect the voting results of their constituents? What a weird response. The "or what" is the risk of being voted out next election cycle. I mean, that's how politics works right?
BCSWguru
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Its hilarious how many people just want unlimited access to taxpayer monies.
Stupe
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You keep acting like people that have kids at CSHS don't know any of this.

And you consistently ignore the fact that those parents have been pushing for the improvements to pass. And that the booster club at CSHS has been encouraging people to vote for the bonds.

Voting FOR improvements at a school that their kids do not attend. Over and over again.

I'm guessing that you didn't drive through any of the neighborhoods around Baron Road or through Castlegate before this election. There were "Pass All Four" signs everywhere.

Yet, you keep pushing this maroon vs purple thing as if there is some agenda by parents, teachers, and administrators at CSHS to stop improvements for Consol.

There is no "us vs them"
There is no either / or when it comes to wanting improvements or the best facilities at both schools for most of the parens in the school district.

It's the few such as yourself that keep trying to push an imaginary agenda that is propagated by non-Consol parents.
It just does not exist.

Those proposals didn't fail because of CSHS parents. They failed because people that don't have kids in athletics or don't have kids either high school voted against them.

If CSHS parents had voted en mass against them, the difference would have been a lot bigger.
Stupe
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AggieKatie2 said:

Stupe said:

"Respect our decision".

I always find it funny when people say or post that.

Respect it or what?


WTH?!?! Is it a problem to ask elected officials and government employees to respect the voting results of their constituents? What a weird response. The "or what" is the risk of being voted out next election cycle. I mean, that's how politics works right?
It's just the overuse of that phrase that I find funny. Not your specific post.
letterman72
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"WTH?!?! Is it a problem to ask elected officials and government employees to respect the voting results of their constituents? What a weird response. The "or what" is the risk of being voted out next election cycle. I mean, that's how politics works right?"

And that's exactly what happened to the last superintendent. He was "voted out". We now have someone in that position who is going to get the upgrades done. I'm confident that if the current superintendent had held the position longer it would have passed in the last cycle.
Tailgate88
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Cartographer said:

CSHS is actually in the wrong location if this is your premise. It should have been built at Fitch and 6.
CSHS is less than two miles from Fitch & 6. I don't think locating it there instead of where it is would have much of an effect on anything, other than the dirt would have probably been a lot more expensive.

Cartographer
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that puts it closer to 5 miles away from consol and centralized into this southern region you are arguing we need to build into.

But more to SARATOGA's point about repurposing Consol, you'd be forcing the large population of students that live between Rock Prairie and University to bus 3+ miles south for no reason. Like it or not, there's a large population of elementary students that live between those two major roadways due to the lack of affordable housing options south of RP.

I like the creative thinking but Consol is not going anywhere nor should it.
Stupe
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If I remember correctly, one of the proposed sites was at the southeast corner of 6 and Fitch.

Attendance zones were going to start with east / west of 6.
Tailgate88
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Cartographer said:

that puts it closer to 5 miles away from consol and centralized into this southern region you are arguing we need to build into.


To clarify, I am not arguing we need to build a third high school for at least a decade or until the projected population of one of the schools goes above the new capacity of each after the upcoming construction, which I believe is 2700. It's going to be awhile.

Quote:

But more to SARATOGA's point about repurposing Consol, you'd be forcing the large population of students that live between Rock Prairie and University to bus 3+ miles south for no reason. Like it or not, there's a large population of elementary students that live between those two major roadways due to the lack of affordable housing options south of RP.

I like the creative thinking but Consol is not going anywhere nor should it.
Agree 100% A LOT of money has gone into Consol since CSHS was built to make improvements, and I believe they are continuing to work on some currently. And with the passage of the most recent bond the whole discussion is a moot point because they about to expand Consol further.
AggiePhil
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The current AMCHS campus was built in the early 70s. Before that, it was on George Bush Drive. Talks about its replacement should already be happening, especially if the facilities are as bad as people claim. More than just talks, actually. A school can only be added onto and jerry-rigged so many times and for so many years before it just needs to be replaced.

New Braunfels (one of my alma maters) just broke ground on a new campus to replace their current HS (built in the 60s). It's taken them 16 years to plan for this so we'd better get started planning ours!
Cartographer
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Sorry Tailgate! Thought I was responding to Saratoga!
Cartographer
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I think the largest problem with the idea of scrapping it is geographic. You're not going to find a campus location within CS proper and you're going to be stuck with a significant enrollment in that northern area that has to travel a good ways.

It might be a tear down and build in place thing but that location is good for a lot of reasons.
AggiePhil
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Cartographer said:

I think the largest problem with the idea of scrapping it is geographic. You're not going to find a campus location within CS proper and you're going to be stuck with a significant enrollment in that northern area that has to travel a good ways.

It might be a tear down and build in place thing but that location is good for a lot of reasons.
Username checks out.
SARATOGA
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Everybody busses south.

The (not many) kids between University and Rock Prairie bus south. From RP to CSHS isn't far. There are very very few school aged kids type of neighborhoods between say Deacon and University. SO the Deacon to Barron contingent is pretty close to CSHS and the few left do have to bus a bit. But right now they are bussing the whole east side of town farther north to Consol. We have 2 great schools of teachers and kids. But consol facility needs to be repurposed.

Yes CSHS was built in the wrong place (literally 1.5 miles south of Consol) with TONS and TONS of kids having to be bussed north to CSHS. Massive mistake in locating CSHS. But it is done and cannot be undone.


As I said before new school needs to be south, to where lots of school aged children ARE, and where lots of building is going on....CSHS *should* have been somewhere like Santa's Wonderland or Museum of American GI.
(However, again, that ship has sailed). Or has it ?

Because what really needs to happen is the fixing of the massive land grab that was Navasota ISD annexing across the river. Not sure what happens when one school district needs to sue another, but they need to go back across the river. Also don't know who was asleep at the wheel when this happened from CSISD, but that is some serious negligence in duty.

Millican will be the next "Wellborn Settlement" annexed by CS, and yet, it is presently in Navasota ISD. TALK ABOUT RIDICULOUS BUSSING ! Kids from Millican Reserve or Duck Haven expansions having to go to Navasota for school ? Come on.

**Note, I don't live in any of those neighborhoods, and none of this would or could ever happen before my kids graduate. But I can look at a map and see what wrongs need to be corrected. Best place for 2nd High School now is somewhere just north of Millican on 159/Wellbornish area.

"Aggie North" of Greens Prairie/WDF goes to CSHS. "South" of GP and WDF goes to new school. 1 relatively straight line. No gerrymandering.

Consol becomes Admin Facility/YMCA/Lincoln Center II sort of place.
Tailgate88
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Cartographer said:

Sorry Tailgate! Thought I was responding to Saratoga!
No worries, I've done the same thing!
George Costanza
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"I'd suggest to the new Super to focus on both of these neighborhoods. Go to PCCC and talk with the retirees, go to luncheons at senior citizen centers, invite clergy to a presentation and tour both high schools. Ask for their assistance. Canvass Castle Gate, attend neighborhood HOAs, explain why Consol needs to be updated."

Watching the board workshop from last night, it sounds like they did over 65 community presentations in addition to what the PAC did? Gonna be interesting to see how what they do now ....
George Costanza
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"We voted. Respect our decision. Classrooms are the priority right now, not athletic fields. We approved the largest general bond ever for this area and it's still not enough for the board."

Hopefully, they don't just put the same bond proposal out again ... obviously it needs to be adjusted to be approved by voters. However, there is no doubt if our community is gonna continue to field athletic teams, Consol NEEDS, at a minimum, an expanded fieldhouse, track resurfacing and concession stand and that at least should be put up for vote again asap.
doubledog
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George Costanza said:

"We voted. Respect our decision. Classrooms are the priority right now, not athletic fields. We approved the largest general bond ever for this area and it's still not enough for the board."

Hopefully, they don't just put the same bond proposal out again ... obviously it needs to be adjusted to be approved by voters. However, there is no doubt if our community is gonna continue to field athletic teams, Consol NEEDS, at a minimum, an expanded fieldhouse, track resurfacing and concession stand and that at least should be put up for vote again asap.
No the voters have spoken... But when has that stopped our local government. I think it is time for CSISD to think of alternatives for the sports expansion.
MiMi
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The problem with the "We voted" argument is that less than 11,000 voters showed up. I'm not sure how many registered voters we have in College Station, but this seems like a very low turnout.
A quick Google search showed a little over 14,000 students in 2021-22 school year. Assuming a significant number of their parents/guardians are registered to vote, turnout still seems low.
There needs to be a better 'get out the vote' strategy in future bond elections (and for other off-year elections). I'm tired of just a tiny group of our citizens deciding how our city/schools function.
George Costanza
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"I think it is time for CSISD to think of alternatives for the sports expansion."

What do you mean? Also … does that train of thought apply to other extracurricular activities like band, theater, etc?
CS78
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George Costanza said:

Consol NEEDS, at a minimum, an expanded fieldhouse, track resurfacing and concession stand and that at least should be put up for vote again asap.
So what does that actually cost? I was really surprised by the ratio that C and D failed by. If they really want athletic bonds to pass, they need to be asking for needs and not wants and trying to trim things to a reasonable number.
Captn_Ag05
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College Station ISD Administrators Exploring A May 2024 Bond Election For Athletic Facilities

https://wtaw.com/college-station-isd-administrators-exploring-a-may-2024-bond-election-for-athletic-facilities/

Quote:

College Station ISD's superintendent tells his school board that he plans to bring back in January, the planning committee that worked on the recent bond issue.


------
Harkrider says administrators will be taking a deeper dive into last week's election results after Thanksgiving.

The superintendent also noted that "realize when we were around 650 to 700 votes short out of 7,000, it is definitely gettable" to pass bonds for athletics facilities.

There was no disagreement among CSISD board members to continue educating voters about current conditions of athletic facilities and how they are used by students who are not on sports teams.
woodiewood1
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CS78 said:

George Costanza said:

Consol NEEDS, at a minimum, an expanded fieldhouse, track resurfacing and concession stand and that at least should be put up for vote again asap.
So what does that actually cost? I was really surprised by the ratio that C and D failed by. If they really want athletic bonds to pass, they need to be asking for needs and not wants and trying to trim things to a reasonable number.
I think if more detailed information was presented with the needs for each expenditure and they looked reasonable, it may have passed.

Questions such as why do the stands need expanding if they are not full for the games should have been explained. Why does a few year old press box at CSHS need to be rebuilt?

To me, more explanation was needed in order to justify spending 38+ million on the two football programs and 13+ million on baseball/softball facilities....51 million in significant dollars.

George Costanza
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https://www.csisd.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=1301524&pageId=93844469

https://www.csisd.org/cms/One.aspx?portalId=1301524&pageId=93844477
sawemoff94
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woodiewood1 said:

CS78 said:

George Costanza said:

Consol NEEDS, at a minimum, an expanded fieldhouse, track resurfacing and concession stand and that at least should be put up for vote again asap.
So what does that actually cost? I was really surprised by the ratio that C and D failed by. If they really want athletic bonds to pass, they need to be asking for needs and not wants and trying to trim things to a reasonable number.
I think if more detailed information was presented with the needs for each expenditure and they looked reasonable, it may have passed.

Questions such as why do the stands need expanding if they are not full for the games should have been explained. Why does a few year old press box at CSHS need to be rebuilt?

To me, more explanation was needed in order to justify spending 38+ million on the two football programs and 13+ million on baseball/softball facilities....51 million in significant dollars.


Prop D was fairly straightforward. The majority of this baseball/softball request was turfing their 4 fields so that the athletes and coaches don't lose as much time prepping fields and waiting for them to dry out. In return they'll have more time for player development, substantially more time practicing on the field both during the fall and spring, and less cancelled games. They'll spend less time and money moving practices and games to other facilities and schools for rentals. The icing on the cake is the realistic potential of renting out these new facilities to outside organizations for summer tournaments where there is already a field shortage in town. These athletes and programs deserve turf fields which are the new standard. Not referring to the Woodlands, Katy and Allen. I'm referring to Navasota, Caldwell, Mumford, Franklin and Waller.
doubledog
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George Costanza said:

"I think it is time for CSISD to think of alternatives for the sports expansion."

What do you mean? Also … does that train of thought apply to other extracurricular activities like band, theater, etc?
First the Consul Sports parents and supporters could raise a percentage of the funds necessary. A good faith effort would show the voters that all parties are engaged. Second those who use the press boxes could also donate to the cause. Third alternative plans could be put forward that do not include double digit million dollar expenditures.

ukbb2003
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doubledog said:

George Costanza said:

"I think it is time for CSISD to think of alternatives for the sports expansion."

What do you mean? Also … does that train of thought apply to other extracurricular activities like band, theater, etc?
First the Consul Sports parents and supporters could raise a percentage of the funds necessary. A good faith effort would show the voters that all parties are engaged. Second those who use the press boxes could also donate to the cause. Third alternative plans could be put forward that do not include double digit million dollar expenditures.




What do you think taxes are for?
4lilmonkeys
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doubledog said:

First the Consul Sports parents and supporters could raise a percentage of the funds necessary. A good faith effort would show the voters that all parties are engaged. Second those who use the press boxes could also donate to the cause. Third alternative plans could be put forward that do not include double digit million dollar expenditures.


What exactly do you think Tiger Club and Cougar Club do?

You can go to the Tiger Club website and see what they've raised and what it's been spent on- and what we're already trying to cover for next year. This covers ALL sports, boys and girls. I've personally given almost $5,000 this year between sponsorships, fees, personal donations and more. And I'll happily do it again next year.

It's also important to point out that our local businesses are writing pretty big checks to multiple schools across multiple districts. Drive by any school and you'll see the same signs over and over again- even at the elementary level. So we're supposed to go out and ask them to increase their spending too?

In the past, we've asked for community support. When my kids were in middle school, they asked for straight cash donations (because everyone was tired of buying wrapping paper)- even went door to door in our neighborhood asking for $10, $25, $100. They got the same type of answers I've seen from posters on this very thread. "I don't have kids in school, why should I support you."

How many times have you driven by a car wash?

How many times have you closed the door or didn't answer altogether?

Ever considered paying $7.00 to go to a game? Any game.

It's really nice to say you'll help if you "see an effort," but we've been working and asking all along. So I guess I won't hold my breath waiting on anyone in this thread to write a check. It seems like ANY fundraising effort by the district is met with the same attitude as a potentially small property tax increase.

While I'm at it- I'm going to take a minute to shamelessly praise these kids. They have not had a break since April. It started with Spring Ball practice, then camps, then two-a-days, then regular season practices and games. They played and practiced in unprecedented heat, up at 5:00 AM most days, workouts on weekends, keeping their grades up as required, holding down part-time jobs, volunteering in the community and more. For those who say that sports aren't all that important, let me tell you that these are some of the BEST and hardest working kids I know. I am thrilled to support them any time I can.

Both high school football teams are moving into the third round of playoffs. So you have your opportunity on Friday night to go out and support one or both. Buy a ticket, get a hot dog. See for yourself.
Tailgate88
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doubledog said:

George Costanza said:

"I think it is time for CSISD to think of alternatives for the sports expansion."

What do you mean? Also … does that train of thought apply to other extracurricular activities like band, theater, etc?
First the Consul Sports parents and supporters could raise a percentage of the funds necessary. A good faith effort would show the voters that all parties are engaged. Second those who use the press boxes could also donate to the cause. Third alternative plans could be put forward that do not include double digit million dollar expenditures.




Ok.
Buford T. Justice
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Sorry if this has already been posted, but has C.I.S.D ever considered a district wide athletic complex? Put the money into one really nice facility and that way we're not trying to maintain two, or eventually, three football stadiums, tracks, baseball fields, bleachers, public address systems, etc.
 
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