Can we revisit the CSISD Bond Discussion (signs are up, voting day approaches)

52,358 Views | 460 Replies | Last: 27 days ago by Stupe
JMac03
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scs01 said:

JMac03 said:

Because my math skills stink, how much is this going to cost on average to a $400k household a year if all 4 pass?


And honestly it doesn't really matter to me personally, as I am voting YES for all 4. Just wondering how much it impacts the average household since many are quite upset over it.

The district is claiming that this will lead to a $.02 increase in the tax rate over the current. I'm a little fuzzy on whether that is the total anticipated cost of this particular bond to the taxpayers, or the total anticipated tax increase factoring in other bonds being paid off in the meantime. Those are two different things.

Anyways, a $.02 rate increase translates to a tax increase of $20 per $100K of valuation. If a $400K household has the $100K homestead exemption that will very likely be in place after the fall election, that will be assessed on $400K-$100K = $300K of value, so an increase of $60 per year.


By golly if it costs me $100 or less a year and our students can benefit, sign me up all day long.
deh40
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SARATOGA said:

Maybe fire that company ?
I've used two different ones in 10 years. But hard to blame them when houses in my neighborhood are selling for 10-20% more per sf than my appraisal.
doubledog
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etmydst said:

Well, then you are shortsighted in what can make for a successful professional. Studies (and logic) show participating in team sports makes better doctors. https://www.catapult.com/blog/athletes-becoming-doctors-why-do-athletes-excel-in-the-medical-profession

Also, your implication that learning both in the classroom and in a team sport environment can't be achieved is also very close-minded - and would be the type of opinion I would expect from someone that never had to learn to work with others in sports or other settings with those that think differently.
I am not sure of your "blog" news, but what is fact is that if you teach your students advanced mathematics, science and engineering in high school, then they will achieve early success at their chosen University.

HWY6_RunsBothWays
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JMac03
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My son graduated with a welding cert from CTE. Amazing option for those not destined for college.
etmydst
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[If you want to post your opinion on this forum do not be disrespectful or rude to other posters. -Staff]
scs01
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doubledog said:

etmydst said:

Well, then you are shortsighted in what can make for a successful professional. Studies (and logic) show participating in team sports makes better doctors. https://www.catapult.com/blog/athletes-becoming-doctors-why-do-athletes-excel-in-the-medical-profession

Also, your implication that learning both in the classroom and in a team sport environment can't be achieved is also very close-minded - and would be the type of opinion I would expect from someone that never had to learn to work with others in sports or other settings with those that think differently.
I am not sure of your "blog" news, but what is fact is that if you teach your students advanced mathematics, science and engineering in high school, then they will achieve early success at their chosen University.


Agreed that top-notch academics are foundational for further success for many students and should be fostered, and I'm all-in on supporting serious students. But, if you want to build leaders and adults that function well in a team environment they should do other stuff also. Sports, music, drama, 4-H, work outside of school...students are far better positioned if they do an array of things that require teamwork, discipline, give leadership opportunities, etc.

A friend who attended Princeton once told me that Princeton has the most DI athletes of any university in the country. Not sure if it is/was true, but they advertise that about 20% of their student body participates in their DI teams. So the top-ranked undergrad university in the country emphasizes sports...maybe they know something?
George Costanza
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"96 cents, not .96
98 cents, not .98
2 cents, not .2
43 cents, not .43

Also, most appraised values have gone up by at least 50% since 2017"

So the tax rate has gone down, property values have gone up, state support per student has remained flat and inflation has gone UP? Sounds about right.
Hornbeck
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The lion's share of my yearly tax bill that I pay, (because I have no mortgage to hide it in) goes to CSISD. I have never seen this amount go down, so I guess I'm kinda lost on the "savings" or "cheaper", that I guess those that are arguing so vociferously for are seeing.

I don't have any children in public schools, and never have. I pay their tuition to private school. Why should I have to pay thousands a year for something I get zero benefit from?

I'm voting "no". They forcibly take enough of my money.
Aggie
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ukbb2003 said:

Shared athletic facilities should have been built when CSHS was built.


Strongly disagree with that.
CSISD was never going to spend the $ for a big Nice stadium for just 2 schools. There was not going to be a Berry Center or Legacy Stadium built in CS.
And a shared ISD stadium would of been built at Consol or CSHS .. all you have to do is look across town and ask the Rudder kids how it feels to load a bus and Goto Bryan HS to play a " home " game

CSISD May have made previous mistakes but each Hs having their own football field was 100% the correct decision
Flatlander
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JMac03 said:

Because my math skills stink, how much is this going to cost on average to a $400k household a year if all 4 pass?


And honestly it doesn't really matter to me personally, as I am voting YES for all 4. Just wondering how much it impacts the average household since many are quite upset over it.

At the current $.96 tax rate, CSISD taxes on $300K valuation would be $2880. Year-to-year, the tax rate is normally supposed to adjust to a revenue-neutral rate, meaning that the amount of taxes paid year-to-year should still be around $2880 regardless of any increases in property value.

But everyone I know had their property appraisal increase 30-40% this year. I got mine reduced after protesting, but it is still over the 10% homestead cap, and will be next year as well. The increase of both the tax rate and appraisal value is a double-whammy, and it also sets a new, higher 'baseline' for the revenue-neutral amount going forward.

So taking the sample $400K home:

$400K * 10% = 440K
$440K - 100K = 340K
Taxes on $340K at the proposed $.98 rate is: $3332.

That is an overall tax increase of $452.
etmydst
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You get zero benefit from an educated society?

I find it hard to believe you make your living in a vacuum and don't somehow benefit, at least indirectly, from public school educated commoners.

Try to think more than one layer deep.
aggiepaintrain
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Flatlander said:

JMac03 said:

Because my math skills stink, how much is this going to cost on average to a $400k household a year if all 4 pass?


And honestly it doesn't really matter to me personally, as I am voting YES for all 4. Just wondering how much it impacts the average household since many are quite upset over it.

At the current $.96 tax rate, CSISD taxes on $300K valuation would be $2880. Year-to-year, the tax rate is normally supposed to adjust to a revenue-neutral rate, meaning that the amount of taxes paid year-to-year should still be around $2880 regardless of any increases in property value.

But everyone I know had their property appraisal increase 30-40% this year. I got mine reduced after protesting, but it is still over the 10% homestead cap, and will be next year as well. The increase of both the tax rate and appraisal value is a double-whammy, and it also sets a new, higher 'baseline' for the revenue-neutral amount going forward.

So taking the sample $400K home:

$400K * 10% = 440K
$440K - 100K = 340K
Taxes on $340K at the proposed $.98 rate is: $3332.

That is an overall tax increase of $452.
If these figures are accurate this will be hard to pass.
BiochemAg97
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Flatlander said:

JMac03 said:

Because my math skills stink, how much is this going to cost on average to a $400k household a year if all 4 pass?


And honestly it doesn't really matter to me personally, as I am voting YES for all 4. Just wondering how much it impacts the average household since many are quite upset over it.

At the current $.96 tax rate, CSISD taxes on $300K valuation would be $2880. Year-to-year, the tax rate is normally supposed to adjust to a revenue-neutral rate, meaning that the amount of taxes paid year-to-year should still be around $2880 regardless of any increases in property value.

But everyone I know had their property appraisal increase 30-40% this year. I got mine reduced after protesting, but it is still over the 10% homestead cap, and will be next year as well. The increase of both the tax rate and appraisal value is a double-whammy, and it also sets a new, higher 'baseline' for the revenue-neutral amount going forward.

So taking the sample $400K home:

$400K * 10% = 440K
$440K - 100K = 340K
Taxes on $340K at the proposed $.98 rate is: $3332.

That is an overall tax increase of $452.


Isn't CSISD dropping the operations portion by $.20? Somehow that $.20 drop doesn't seem to be factored into your math.

2022 rate was $1.18. 2023 rate is $0.96.

Or were you trying to project 2024 tax rate assuming the operating portion is unchanged even in the face of increased valuations? That would not be expected given a history of consistently lowering the rate, especially considering the rate that requires voter approval is generally lower than the prior rate when property values are increasing by 10+%.

Also, your assumption that the taxes should stay at a revenue neutral rate ignores reality of inflation and increasing student population.


BiochemAg97
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aggiepaintrain said:

Flatlander said:

JMac03 said:

Because my math skills stink, how much is this going to cost on average to a $400k household a year if all 4 pass?


And honestly it doesn't really matter to me personally, as I am voting YES for all 4. Just wondering how much it impacts the average household since many are quite upset over it.

At the current $.96 tax rate, CSISD taxes on $300K valuation would be $2880. Year-to-year, the tax rate is normally supposed to adjust to a revenue-neutral rate, meaning that the amount of taxes paid year-to-year should still be around $2880 regardless of any increases in property value.

But everyone I know had their property appraisal increase 30-40% this year. I got mine reduced after protesting, but it is still over the 10% homestead cap, and will be next year as well. The increase of both the tax rate and appraisal value is a double-whammy, and it also sets a new, higher 'baseline' for the revenue-neutral amount going forward.

So taking the sample $400K home:

$400K * 10% = 440K
$440K - 100K = 340K
Taxes on $340K at the proposed $.98 rate is: $3332.

That is an overall tax increase of $452.
If these figures are accurate this will be hard to pass.


They aren't accurate. Lots of faulty assumptions.

A better comparison which avoids the assumptions would be to look at a single year comparison with or without the bond. That yields a difference of $340k @ $0.02 is $68.

Trying to account for increased property values (change over time) and ignoring that the rate generally goes down with increasing property values gives a very flawed picture.
doubledog
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HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

doubledog said:

etmydst said:

Well, then you are shortsighted in what can make for a successful professional. Studies (and logic) show participating in team sports makes better doctors. https://www.catapult.com/blog/athletes-becoming-doctors-why-do-athletes-excel-in-the-medical-profession

Also, your implication that learning both in the classroom and in a team sport environment can't be achieved is also very close-minded - and would be the type of opinion I would expect from someone that never had to learn to work with others in sports or other settings with those that think differently.
I am not sure of your "blog" news, but what is fact is that if you teach your students advanced mathematics, science and engineering in high school, then they will achieve early success at their chosen University.




College is not the only pathway for high school graduates-thus advanced courses do not resolve the situation.

College, Career, and Military are all options.

Look at CTE: https://www.csisd.org/departments/career_technical_education
Agreed. Physical Education is also a must for a good High School education.
JMac03
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aggiepaintrain said:

Flatlander said:

JMac03 said:

Because my math skills stink, how much is this going to cost on average to a $400k household a year if all 4 pass?


And honestly it doesn't really matter to me personally, as I am voting YES for all 4. Just wondering how much it impacts the average household since many are quite upset over it.

At the current $.96 tax rate, CSISD taxes on $300K valuation would be $2880. Year-to-year, the tax rate is normally supposed to adjust to a revenue-neutral rate, meaning that the amount of taxes paid year-to-year should still be around $2880 regardless of any increases in property value.

But everyone I know had their property appraisal increase 30-40% this year. I got mine reduced after protesting, but it is still over the 10% homestead cap, and will be next year as well. The increase of both the tax rate and appraisal value is a double-whammy, and it also sets a new, higher 'baseline' for the revenue-neutral amount going forward.

So taking the sample $400K home:

$400K * 10% = 440K
$440K - 100K = 340K
Taxes on $340K at the proposed $.98 rate is: $3332.

That is an overall tax increase of $452.
If these figures are accurate this will be hard to pass.


But the increase really has nothing to do with the school district right? It has to do with the house prices going up. Which you would pay regardless. Or am I off?

Edited - I saw BioChem's update after I posted, which clarifies this. Less than $100 for bettering our schools. No brainer.
Captn_Ag05
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BiochemAg97 said:

aggiepaintrain said:

Flatlander said:

JMac03 said:

Because my math skills stink, how much is this going to cost on average to a $400k household a year if all 4 pass?


And honestly it doesn't really matter to me personally, as I am voting YES for all 4. Just wondering how much it impacts the average household since many are quite upset over it.

At the current $.96 tax rate, CSISD taxes on $300K valuation would be $2880. Year-to-year, the tax rate is normally supposed to adjust to a revenue-neutral rate, meaning that the amount of taxes paid year-to-year should still be around $2880 regardless of any increases in property value.

But everyone I know had their property appraisal increase 30-40% this year. I got mine reduced after protesting, but it is still over the 10% homestead cap, and will be next year as well. The increase of both the tax rate and appraisal value is a double-whammy, and it also sets a new, higher 'baseline' for the revenue-neutral amount going forward.

So taking the sample $400K home:

$400K * 10% = 440K
$440K - 100K = 340K
Taxes on $340K at the proposed $.98 rate is: $3332.

That is an overall tax increase of $452.
If these figures are accurate this will be hard to pass.


They aren't accurate. Lots of faulty assumptions.

A better comparison which avoids the assumptions would be to look at a single year comparison with or without the bond. That yields a difference of $340k @ $0.02 is $68.

Trying to account for increased property values (change over time) and ignoring that the rate generally goes down with increasing property values gives a very flawed picture.


Unfortunately, those opposing the bond seem okay with posting false or completely uninformed information here and elsewhere.
Flatlander
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BiochemAg97 said:

Flatlander said:



That is an overall tax increase of $452.


Isn't CSISD dropping the operations portion by $.20? Somehow that $.20 drop doesn't seem to be factored into your math.

2022 rate was $1.18. 2023 rate is $0.96.

Or were you trying to project 2024 tax rate assuming the operating portion is unchanged even in the face of increased valuations? That would not be expected given a history of consistently lowering the rate, especially considering the rate that requires voter approval is generally lower than the prior rate when property values are increasing by 10+%.

Also, your assumption that the taxes should stay at a revenue neutral rate ignores reality of inflation and increasing student population.




I am not trying to project the rate; I'm just going off the information earlier in this thread that said the rate would be $.98 if the bonds pass.

Yes, that's an assumption, and so is the possibility the legislature increasing the homestead exemption to $100K, but I'm just doing math on the assumptions already stated previously in this thread.

If the rate next year is $,98, and if you have a $400K home, and if your appraisal increase is homestead-capped, then you will pay $452 more next year.
BiochemAg97
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Flatlander said:

BiochemAg97 said:

Flatlander said:



That is an overall tax increase of $452.


Isn't CSISD dropping the operations portion by $.20? Somehow that $.20 drop doesn't seem to be factored into your math.

2022 rate was $1.18. 2023 rate is $0.96.

Or were you trying to project 2024 tax rate assuming the operating portion is unchanged even in the face of increased valuations? That would not be expected given a history of consistently lowering the rate, especially considering the rate that requires voter approval is generally lower than the prior rate when property values are increasing by 10+%.

Also, your assumption that the taxes should stay at a revenue neutral rate ignores reality of inflation and increasing student population.




I am not trying to project the rate; I'm just going off the information earlier in this thread that said the rate would be $.98 if the bonds pass.

Yes, that's an assumption, and so is the possibility the legislature increasing the homestead exemption to $100K, but I'm just doing math on the assumptions already stated previously in this thread.

If the rate next year is $,98, and if you have a $400K home, and if your appraisal increase is homestead-capped, then you will pay $452 more next year.


Yes, but that would be because the school board would have decided to do a money grab on the operating budget portion of the tax rate, not because of the bond. Assuming property values go up another 10% next year, the ISD rate would go down because maintaining the rate will exceed the rate requiring voter approval.

The bond adds $0.02 to the bond rate over the current year bond rate, given the current taxable value. Since the bond portion is set to pay and service the bonds, that rate decreases as taxable value increases.

I wish the tax bill split the ISD line item into the two portions so people could see how much they are paying to service the bonds and how much the district is taxing to pay the operating budget.
SARATOGA
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Technically the figures are accurate but it assumes a 10% max increase on the TAXABLE value of your home, not the market value, or even appraisal value.

There is MARKET VALUE (their best guess with comps this is pure speculation if its not for sale)

There is APPRAISAL VALUE (their formula for building costs to rebuild - depreciation)

And there is TAXABLE VALUE (usually, some combination of the above subtracting homestead exemptions, ag exemptions, senior exemption, veterans exemptions or whatever); this they take times 1.x to get the actual increase.

This last year there was basically a mandate from the state to try and go for the 10% maximum increase on homesteads taxable value, when it years passed it was 2-4%. After going thru the calculations of Market and Appraised values at the appraisal district, I noticed that NO MATTER WHAT value was put in for Market or Appraisal value the taxable value was multiplied by 1.1 and when I questioned it the person said "my hands are tied"

So I went before the board, something I highly suggest as you can present your case and it is decided by an independent arbitrator.

Anyway, yes the rate is going up. But just sitting back and assuming the value is going up 10% ever year is ridiculous. Over the last 13 years we've owned our home the average increase on TAXABLE has been just under 3%. And yes I do go talk to them every year and have gone to the board twice.

So long story short, if you aren't willing to learn what is what and how the system works, then complaining about tax increases you aren't willing to fight is pretty hypocritical. But personally, I'm happy to vote yes on things that benefit the kids and argue my appraisal every year and pass those costs along to those too lazy to fight.

(One year they were so overrun with protests that they met me in the parking lot before my board hearing and said they were 3 hours behind, and said "what do you want?" I said "same number as last year" and he said "deal" and signed the paper and I was out of there.

Imagine if only 10% of people protested their values; they'd be overrun and the system would change (hopefully to locked valuations only based on sale so people aren't taxed out of there homes); and then when a bond comes along, since the values are locked it really is a tiny tiny increase.

And for those who are going to come along and say "but you miss all that tax base from people who hold property for 30 years" - I know. That is true. But average turnover for our area is about 4 years. People moving in, moving up, and moving on. VERY VERY few stay in a house for 30 years.
SARATOGA
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Current Rate is 1.178100 (source:https://brazoscad.org/tax-information/adopted-tax-rates/)

.02 increase for the bond. That is .02 per $100 of valuation.


$400,000 home in 2023 (lets say this is your taxable value, see above to see what that is) / 100
$4000 * 1.178100 = $4712.40

Say 2024 with no appraisal increase, but the bond passing.....
400,000/100=4000*1.198100=$4792.40

$80 bucks difference.


Lets say they come for another 10% increase on taxable value, this is capped for homesteads by law.
Lets say you don't fight this change at the appraisal district (why not?), so $440,000 is taxable value in 2024.
440,000/100=4400 * 1.178100 (bond not passing assumed here) = $5183.64

The "double whammy" of you not fighting your appraisal value AND the bond passing.
$440,000 /100=$4400 * 1.198100 = $5271.64

$88 difference if bond passes.....if you don't argue the value, thats on you.


You can't "cherry pick" and take the delta of the "double whammy" scenario and compare it to zero increase in the rate (bond not passing) and the extremely unlikely scenario that the appraised values won't increase. You can't assume 1 and not the other when calculating your differences.


your dad
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AG
If a home were valued at $400,000 in 2022 and had a homestead exemption of $40,000, the taxable value would be $360,000. The amount of property tax paid to CSISD with the 2022 tax rate of $1.18 per $100 of valuation was $4,248. (360,000/100) x 1.18 = 4,248

In 2023, let's assume that the same home's value went up to $440,000 (10% increase). If Texas Proposition 4 passes in November (and it will) it will increase the homestead exemption to $100,000, meaning the taxable value would now be $340,000.

The 2023 tax rate without the passage of the bonds will be $.96 per $100 of valuation. Using the same math as above, the amount of taxes paid to CSISD for this same home would be $3,264 ($984 less than 2022).

With the passage of the bonds, the rate could be as high as $.98 per $100 of valuation (worst-case scenario) and the amount of taxes paid would be $3,332 ($916 less than 2022).

In this one example, the difference in the bond passing and not is $68 per year, and the homeowner will still be paying at least $916 less than they did last year in CSISD taxes if the four bond propositions pass.

Here's a link to the tax rate resolution that sets the 2023 tax rate for CSISD.
Tibbers
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Yes no more taxes. Thanks. Do more with less.
birdman
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People can continue to spout math. Some of it is accurate, some of it is convenient. But you are missing the point. For the sake of discussion, assume it's an $88 increase for everybody.

It's $88 INCREASE. You don't get to ignore all the other money they bring in. It's only $88 PLUS all the other money that comes out of my pocket.

I guess the "mold and rodent situation" is the talking point for proponents of increased taxation. A&M Consol was under construction for entire summer. They finished just a few days before school started. They renovated all of the administrative offices in the front of school. It's really nice. Could they have fixed the mold and rat problem instead of getting nicer offices?
SARATOGA
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The mold and rodents wasn't my premise. I think myself and several others have pointed out that there is a minimal increase, and maybe even a possible decrease year over year depending on which laws for homestead and operations budgets pass.

The point I was trying to make was that for 350 million dollars we should look at what we're buying. We have 1 very old building in a location that doesn't serve much of the attending population that could/should? be transitioned into the admin offices and some other sort of community serving space. And for 350 million or less we could build a new high school ahead (far south) of the growth, which solves most of the zoning problems and arguments as we'd then have a slightly used school (CSHS) and a new school (make up a name here......uh.....South County High School) and we are no longer throwing money into a 40 year old building / money pit for $88 bucks a year.

(Personal Note: I'd be in favor of building this new school and my oldest wouldn't be affected, would still attend AMCHS, and I'm not sure my youngest would even be affected by the time its built - but its the right thing to do)
Hornbeck
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The thirst for more and more money by government is never quenched. It may be $88 this year, and they are using problems (that they were ineffective at dealing with) to try and convince us to give them yet more piles of money? What happens in 2 years when they start having issues at the other football stadium, or with the other building? Oh, yeah! Let's hit up the taxpayers for an ever increasing amount of money because "it's for the kids". I don't buy it, and I'm frankly tired of government wanting us to pay more and more so they can have grandiose buildings (looking at you CS and Brazos County)…

ETA: Inflation is going nuts. Wages aren't.

Government: Oh, hey! We need more piles of money.

It's literally that simple for me. I am having to "do more with less". They should too.
Cartographer
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So we stop funding any projects for the schools to stick it to the cities and county?

I mean, I understand where y'all are coming from but you're essentially kicking the can down the road. Eventually poor facilities will be the norm in the district and you'll see QOL dip as families pass on moving to CS.

I'm not sure what the endgame is since the county will always appraise your property higher and the cities/utilities will always increase their fees.

I am not for flippantly raising taxes and certainly CSISD could do a better job of explaining the bonds, narrowing the scope, and targeting issues but, your taxes are going up either way.

You just get to decide if they pay for more medians or if they could benefit the students who also call this place home.
CS78
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That's pretty much it for me. They never stop. Vote no, they ask for more next time. Vote yes, guess what, they still want more. This is one of the only places where we as tax payers actually get a voice.
Captn_Ag05
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AG
https://vimeo.com/867264953?fbclid=IwAR1FmWOCUweJzPcJ747W_gcJZKLqZxBuZl37vN-W4_zLVgF8ewHfYtzdE6Y_aem_AfW8qz0H4nL_wfW1s2zFedY6TiQzjc1b2tqmXJXlrv526CviMqWL6ZJ5TOn7Qcg6vN8

Not sure if this has been posted, but provides the breakdown of what the District is requesting.
aggiepaintrain
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AG
The real problem is Biden's and the Feds handling of the economy which has given taxing authorities the green light to keep raising values.

Let's not punish the kids over couple
hundred bucks. Consol desperately needs these upgrades.

Hornbeck
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Does anyone have any figures on how much revenue CSISD received in 2017 versus 2022? I get that their *rate* has gone down, but the amount we pay has gone up, dramatically. Add in the new rooftops that we've added, that's a lot of money. They spent some time talking about the rate and how it was only going up 2 cents, but what is the total revenue? I'd love to see that.

ETA:
I did some googling, and it seems it was $135M in 2017 versus $169M in 2022, a 25.2% increase. Where did that extra $34M go? Would seem like they could have addressed the rat and insect problem with some of that.

Did any of you guys get a 25% raise over the last five years? I know I sure did not. Like another poster said, it's never enough.
HWY6_RunsBothWays
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AG
HWY6_RunsBothWays
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AG
BiochemAg97
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HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

Hornbeck said:

Does anyone have any figures on how much revenue CSISD received in 2017 versus 2022? I get that their *rate* has gone down, but the amount we pay has gone up, dramatically. Add in the new rooftops that we've added, that's a lot of money. They spent some time talking about the rate and how it was only going up 2 cents, but what is the total revenue? I'd love to see that.

ETA:
I did some googling, and it seems it was $135M in 2017 versus $169M in 2022, a 25.2% increase. Where did that extra $34M go? Would seem like they could have addressed the rat and insect problem with some of that.

Did any of you guys get a 25% raise over the last five years? I know I sure did not. Like another poster said, it's never enough.

You are assuming everything held the same from 2017 to 2022.
The number of students increased.
Inflation.


Also new mandates from state and local government. For example, new state safety requirements passed and went into effect Sept 1. Armed personnel at every campus, silent panic button in every classroom.
 
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