Can we revisit the CSISD Bond Discussion (signs are up, voting day approaches)

49,726 Views | 456 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by woodiewood1
Stupe
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It was in the football stadium.
Captn_Ag05
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Strange.
Stupe
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It was a case of "if both high schools can't have a video scoreboard, then neither can". It was right after CSHS won State and there were a couple of board member that were very vocal about it. One in particular caused a bunch of problems and then moved to Auburn.
George Costanza
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"I'm not opposed to the money, or spending it to benefit the kids. What I am opposed to is throwing new money after sunk costs on an expired facility when a new facility could be had for the same or less."

Except Consol isn't an expired facility and you couldn't even remotely get close to building a new high school for the amount of money in the bond for repairs and improvements to Consol.
TAMU1990
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BiochemAg97 said:

CS78 said:

Expert Analysis said:

is now $38 mil for this cycle with additional stadium renovations at both schools.


For me, this is a big hang up. Why do they need millions of dollars at CSHS? It's not old enough. Either they screwed up the first time or it proves the "thirst will never be quenched" theory. Unfortunately the kids at consolidated will suffer because people aren't happy hearing that the new big fancy expensive school needs MORE MORE MORE also.


There appears to be a "what's in it for me" aspect to passing bond packages. A bond package with only money for AMCHS doesn't get the automatic support from CSHS parents. Have to add enough bling for the CSHS parents to back the bond. It is all a big political game to "buy enough votes" to pass the bond package.

I've seen it in other districts where parents on one side of town voted against a bond package because there was a perception that their school wasn't getting any/enough and the big ticket. Next election, those parents were out in force supporting the new bigger package because their school was getting upgrades.

CSHS has wanted a video board for years. Around 2018 Tiger Club was told Cougar Club wanted to put $200k down and finance the rest to get a video scoreboard. Tiger Club couldn't afford to do that and CSHS was told by the district they couldn't get one. Those events happened - even though some will say it didn't.

CSHS supporters didn't like the Consol trustees and FOIA them because of the rezoning. Rezoning was needed to to get more students into Consol. The history hallway was completely shut down because enrollment was dropping quickly. This is where the mold and rats are. I'm now wondering if having a section of the school shut down led to the infestation and leaks (especially with the rats causing damage in the ceiling)?
TAMU1990
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SARATOGA said:

But if "repairs" to your tractor cost $35,000 and a NEW tractor could be bought for $35,000 then doesn't logic say to buy a new tractor ?

I'm not opposed to the money, or spending it to benefit the kids. What I am opposed to is throwing new money after sunk costs on an expired facility when a new facility could be had for the same or less.

Its a catch 22. There is an OLD school, a NEW (er/ish) school. If the bond was for a new school, the people would come out of the asbestos to question what is wrong with AMCHS. Try and repair it and you have people (like me) saying "why not just build new ?"
They aren't spending $300M on Consol
cslifer
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Has anyone here ACTUALLY SEEN the mold and rats that keep getting mentioned here? And I mean personally seen, not "heard it from my cousin's boyfriend's sister" or "I heard it from a guy that knows things". I have been in that school a fair bit recently and haven't seen anything indicating that.
BCSWguru
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Stupe said:

BCSWguru said:

pudge said:

One more small item, the scoreboard at Consol's softball field was installed my first year as head coach in 2006. It has been repainted and a module replaced in 17 years of service and the brand of scoreboard, while a great & reliable company, is not used much in Texas anymore and I'm sure parts are getting hard to find.
so raise the money and buy a new one?
CSHS did that for a scoreboard and were told "no" by the school district.


This is hilarious. So now they want us to pay for it at a premium I'm sure. School board needs to be started anew it sounds like.
wasntme
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cslifer said:

Has anyone here ACTUALLY SEEN the mold and rats that keep getting mentioned here? And I mean personally seen, not "heard it from my cousin's boyfriend's sister" or "I heard it from a guy that knows things". I have been in that school a fair bit recently and haven't seen anything indicating that.
I saw one last Spring. it was walking across the floor in the cafeteria. Later that same day my son said they saw a dead one, in one of the classrooms. I called the health department the next day to let them know.
AllTheFishes
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cslifer said:

Has anyone here ACTUALLY SEEN the mold and rats that keep getting mentioned here? And I mean personally seen, not "heard it from my cousin's boyfriend's sister" or "I heard it from a guy that knows things". I have been in that school a fair bit recently and haven't seen anything indicating that.
Yes, when cleaning out the band boosters storage closet there was a lot of fresh evidence of rodents, poop, storage containers chewed threw, etc. It's a problem and has been around for a while.
woodiewood1
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your dad said:


High School Additions and Renovations

1. The cost to build a high school today is between $200-$300 million.

2. Increasing the capacity of both high schools to 2,700 will delay a third high school for a LONG time. Who knows, maybe the need never arises. In fact, the district's demographer projects that in 2032-33 both high schools will have approximately 2,450 students. Go to the 2:00 mark in this video for projected high school enrollments.

3. The cost of operating a third high school would be approximately $6 million per year. Because the district is funded per student, there would be no additional funding whether the district has two high schools or three.

4. Turning Consol into central office building would not be an efficient use of space. According to the video linked above, the district is looking to expand from 44,000 square feet (current central office building) to approximately 90,000 square feet, and they are looking to purchase and renovate an existing building to accomplish that. Consol is approximately 400,000 square feet.
Behind the existing central office is a 2.5 acre tract of vacant land that the school district owns. Build a two/three story office building on it so there is no need to relocate and buy land. A two story building on have the land would be about 45,000 square feet of CHVAC area. If more parking is needed, have the ground floor a parking garage.
woodiewood1
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AllTheFishes said:

cslifer said:

Has anyone here ACTUALLY SEEN the mold and rats that keep getting mentioned here? And I mean personally seen, not "heard it from my cousin's boyfriend's sister" or "I heard it from a guy that knows things". I have been in that school a fair bit recently and haven't seen anything indicating that.
Yes, when cleaning out the band boosters storage closet there was a lot of fresh evidence of rodents, poop, storage containers chewed threw, etc. It's a problem and has been around for a while.
Rats and rodents and even mold are signs of possible insufficient care and management of the property. There are homes here that are 100+ years old that don't have those issues.
cslifer
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I guess I just missed all the rats and mold last time I was in there. I personally think the district has done a pretty good job of maintaining the building especially when you take into consideration the age and heavy use of the building.
Tibbers
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Why don't they set traps? Hire pest control? Maintain the property? Doesn't cost 350 million to do simple maintenance.
TAMU1990
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cslifer said:

Has anyone here ACTUALLY SEEN the mold and rats that keep getting mentioned here? And I mean personally seen, not "heard it from my cousin's boyfriend's sister" or "I heard it from a guy that knows things". I have been in that school a fair bit recently and haven't seen anything indicating that.
First picture is mold. Second picture is leaks in the workroom WHICH WAS REMODELED THIS SUMMER. If you know anything about the entrance of the school, both pictures are close by the main entrance. The History hallway is on the right and the workroom is on the left upon entering.



TAMU1990
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There are videos all over the kids social media of rats. I have one on my phone of a live rat in the lunchroom area. The best one I heard about was a snake eating a rat because kids were putting GoPros up in the ceiling.

Last year kids were taking test in classrooms and could hear rats scurrying up in the roof because it was quiet. I'm sure the leaks are in part a result from the damage the rats are doing up in the ceiling.
TAMU1990
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Mold
A Net Full of Jello
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TAMU1990 said:

There are videos all over the kids social media of rats. I have one on my phone of a live rat in the lunchroom area. The best one I heard about was a snake eating a rat because kids were putting GoPros up in the ceiling.

Last year kids were taking test in classrooms and could hear rats scurrying up in the roof because it was quiet. I'm sure the leaks are in part a result from the damage the rats are doing up in the ceiling.
That is absolutely disgusting and unacceptable. Any restaurant in town would have a visit from the health department and be shut down until the problem was resolved.
TAMU1990
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I know
UmustBKidding
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But biochem ag says it would be irresponsible to use operations funds to do maintenance so they can pay teachers more. So we defer maintenance and pay the teachers the lowest rate of any district in the area and at one time the whole state. I have the mold evaluation report and basically says all due to not repairing roof leaks and hvac drainage issues causing humidity that ensure mold will happen.
Maintenance is not glamours and they have some good staff but things like put out bait stations, admin closes tickets poof no more rodents. Roof leaks, oh we are going to fix that when we do the bond project, close ticket leaks dont exist anymore and no mold issues can happen. Maybe in reality version 2 but this current version of reality stinks any you have to deal with issues (and not on the cheap) or problems compound and the results get very expensive.
turfman80
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If rodents are indeed as bad as described, there is no excuse. Either the district's in house pest control is not doing enough, or if it is contracted out, that company is not doing their job and needs to be held accountable. There will always be an occasional rodent gain entry, but to have them running out of control means something is not being done.

Exclusion, baits, traps and proper storage of food can keep rodent populations under control.
BiochemAg97
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UmustBKidding said:

But biochem ag says it would be irresponsible to use operations funds to do maintenance so they can pay teachers more. So we defer maintenance and pay the teachers the lowest rate of any district in the area and at one time the whole state. I have the mold evaluation report and basically says all due to not repairing roof leaks and hvac drainage issues causing humidity that ensure mold will happen.
Maintenance is not glamours and they have some good staff but things like put out bait stations, admin closes tickets poof no more rodents. Roof leaks, oh we are going to fix that when we do the bond project, close ticket leaks dont exist anymore and no mold issues can happen. Maybe in reality version 2 but this current version of reality stinks any you have to deal with issues (and not on the cheap) or problems compound and the results get very expensive.


Not quite what I said, but whatever.
Tookieclothespin
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George Costanza said:

"Texas students are funded around $14k per student on average."

It's actually closer to $12k per student on average and that's about $5k less than the national average.
I attended what some might consider a very high income tx school district growing up. Of course, as things go, we didn't exactly get to keep the money in our own schools. Our district spent far less than the average (in just the metro area) per student. All metrics indicated academic success.

You can't throw money at kids and think it's going to solve academic problems.

Now, if you just need space for class, I get it. But then, my district just threw up more portables in the parking lot (and yes, that reduced student parking) and moved on.



AllTheFishes
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Tibbers said:

Why don't they set traps? Hire pest control? Maintain the property? Doesn't cost 350 million to do simple maintenance.
I don't know, I'm not on the school's maintenance team. I suspect it's a problem that either wasn't discovered till it was too bad fora few traps to solve or it wasn't discovered because they were so busy repairing bathrooms and keeping doors locked that kids leave propped open.
UmustBKidding
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Consol has been added on so many times the line between inside and outside is close to non existent. Due to multiple separate foundations and soil movement you see daylight in many of the suspended ceilings. There are things like why is there a column in the middle of this room, oh that was far the covered porch in front of the school and we slapped some Sheetrock around it and put a not completely thought out cap on when we extended the walls around the area. Makes things like fixing water and air leaks nearly impossible. And then wonder why there is mold. Maybe we should have a bond item caulk, figure it would only take a few million tubes.
If we could just figure out a way to get those thousands of vape pens plugging the sewer pipes relocated to plug the air and water leaks.
George Costanza
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"You can't throw money at kids and think it's going to solve academic problems.

Now, if you just need space for class, I get it. But then, my district just threw up more portables in the parking lot (and yes, that reduced student parking) and moved on."

Totally agree on the first. As to the second, I grew up with portables also and CSISD uses them. Let's just say though things aren't like they were back in the day and portables are an even bigger safety and security risk than schools in general .. and apparently they aren't cheap either:

https://communityimpact.com/houston/the-woodlands/education/2023/03/21/conroe-isd-purchases-70-portable-buildings-for-2023-24-school-year/#:~:text=Technology%20costs%20per%20classroom%20are,double%20portable%20is%20approximately%20%24300%2C000.
cypress-ag
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turfman80 said:

If rodents are indeed as bad as described, there is no excuse. Either the district's in house pest control is not doing enough, or if it is contracted out, that company is not doing their job and needs to be held accountable. There will always be an occasional rodent gain entry, but to have them running out of control means something is not being done.

Exclusion, baits, traps and proper storage of food can keep rodent populations under control.
Pest control is not just bait, traps and storage of products, it begins by closing up all access to a building. Rats can get into a whole the size of quarter. As someone that's moved into the area and has no kids, I still will want to know what's going on in the district. This falls on the leadership of the district for the school to get this far gone. Whoever heads the maintenance department should have to answer for these issues as to how it got so bad. If he was diligent and was asking for the funds, then the person denying the funds should be made to answer. If some of the mold is from drain issues again that is on maintenance. It's cheaper to repair a building and the resources you have already paid for than to start new. Petty differences among the families of two high schools shouldn't stop these bonds.
Tailgate88
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cypress-ag said:

turfman80 said:

If rodents are indeed as bad as described, there is no excuse. Either the district's in house pest control is not doing enough, or if it is contracted out, that company is not doing their job and needs to be held accountable. There will always be an occasional rodent gain entry, but to have them running out of control means something is not being done.

Exclusion, baits, traps and proper storage of food can keep rodent populations under control.
Pest control is not just bait, traps and storage of products, it begins by closing up all access to a building. Rats can get into a whole the size of quarter. As someone that's moved into the area and has no kids, I still will want to know what's going on in the district. This falls on the leadership of the district for the school to get this far gone. Whoever heads the maintenance department should have to answer for these issues as to how it got so bad. If he was diligent and was asking for the funds, then the person denying the funds should be made to answer. If some of the mold is from drain issues again that is on maintenance. It's cheaper to repair a building and the resources you have already paid for than to start new. Petty differences among the families of two high schools shouldn't stop these bonds.
This is an inaccurate characterization. CSHS Parents have been more than supportive of the bond issues to provide funds for AMCHS. There was a time in the years following the opening of CSHS a decade ago where there was some friction between the fanbases, but for the most part those have been resolved. "Two Cats, One Pride" has been embraced by both schools and we cheer for each other (EXCEPT when we play each other like this coming Friday night).

kraut
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Tailgate88 said:

cypress-ag said:

turfman80 said:

If rodents are indeed as bad as described, there is no excuse. Either the district's in house pest control is not doing enough, or if it is contracted out, that company is not doing their job and needs to be held accountable. There will always be an occasional rodent gain entry, but to have them running out of control means something is not being done.

Exclusion, baits, traps and proper storage of food can keep rodent populations under control.
Pest control is not just bait, traps and storage of products, it begins by closing up all access to a building. Rats can get into a whole the size of quarter. As someone that's moved into the area and has no kids, I still will want to know what's going on in the district. This falls on the leadership of the district for the school to get this far gone. Whoever heads the maintenance department should have to answer for these issues as to how it got so bad. If he was diligent and was asking for the funds, then the person denying the funds should be made to answer. If some of the mold is from drain issues again that is on maintenance. It's cheaper to repair a building and the resources you have already paid for than to start new. Petty differences among the families of two high schools shouldn't stop these bonds.
This is an inaccurate characterization. CSHS Parents have been more than supportive of the bond issues to provide funds for AMCHS. There was a time in the years following the opening of CSHS a decade ago where there was some friction between the fanbases, but for the most part those have been resolved. "Two Cats, One Pride" has been embraced by both schools and we cheer for each other (EXCEPT when we play each other like this coming Friday night).


To add on to that, I heard from someone that keeps up with voting patterns and trends that the previous school bonds that failed had more to do with the age of the voters than which high school the voter was zoned for.

The areas zoned for AMCHS voted at a lesser percentage for the bonds than the areas zoned for CSHS. I believe this person thought that had it been only CSHS zoned areas voting, all the school bonds would have passed.
kraut
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dp
kraut
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dp
Captn_Ag05
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kraut said:

Tailgate88 said:

cypress-ag said:

turfman80 said:

If rodents are indeed as bad as described, there is no excuse. Either the district's in house pest control is not doing enough, or if it is contracted out, that company is not doing their job and needs to be held accountable. There will always be an occasional rodent gain entry, but to have them running out of control means something is not being done.

Exclusion, baits, traps and proper storage of food can keep rodent populations under control.
Pest control is not just bait, traps and storage of products, it begins by closing up all access to a building. Rats can get into a whole the size of quarter. As someone that's moved into the area and has no kids, I still will want to know what's going on in the district. This falls on the leadership of the district for the school to get this far gone. Whoever heads the maintenance department should have to answer for these issues as to how it got so bad. If he was diligent and was asking for the funds, then the person denying the funds should be made to answer. If some of the mold is from drain issues again that is on maintenance. It's cheaper to repair a building and the resources you have already paid for than to start new. Petty differences among the families of two high schools shouldn't stop these bonds.
This is an inaccurate characterization. CSHS Parents have been more than supportive of the bond issues to provide funds for AMCHS. There was a time in the years following the opening of CSHS a decade ago where there was some friction between the fanbases, but for the most part those have been resolved. "Two Cats, One Pride" has been embraced by both schools and we cheer for each other (EXCEPT when we play each other like this coming Friday night).


To add on to that, I heard from someone that keeps up with voting patterns and trends that the previous school bonds that failed had more to do with the age of the voters than which high school the voter was zoned for.

The areas zoned for AMCHS voted at a lesser percentage for the bonds than the areas zoned for CSHS. I believe this person thought that had it been only CSHS zoned areas voting, all the school bonds would have passed.
Yes, old people tend to vote no on these things even thought their tax rates are frozen.
UmustBKidding
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I can't wait to vote for useless crap once my taxes are frozen. JK its still a drag on humanity. I do believe that if you are elected to a position that is involved in setting the tax rate your rate lock should be permanently deleted.
CS78
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Is anyone else tired of the campaign push? Multiple emails from the schools, multiples from the HOA, text messages, signs, etc. Hitting all the angles.

Reminds me of the old democrat "rock the vote" campaign. We just want the voters to be "informed". Yeah, "informed" with your talking points.
turfman80
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cypress-ag said:

turfman80 said:

If rodents are indeed as bad as described, there is no excuse. Either the district's in house pest control is not doing enough, or if it is contracted out, that company is not doing their job and needs to be held accountable. There will always be an occasional rodent gain entry, but to have them running out of control means something is not being done.

Exclusion, baits, traps and proper storage of food can keep rodent populations under control.
Pest control is not just bait, traps and storage of products, it begins by closing up all access to a building. Rats can get into a whole the size of quarter. As someone that's moved into the area and has no kids, I still will want to know what's going on in the district. This falls on the leadership of the district for the school to get this far gone. Whoever heads the maintenance department should have to answer for these issues as to how it got so bad. If he was diligent and was asking for the funds, then the person denying the funds should be made to answer. If some of the mold is from drain issues again that is on maintenance. It's cheaper to repair a building and the resources you have already paid for than to start new. Petty differences among the families of two high schools shouldn't stop these bonds.
That's why the first thing I listed was exclusion.
 
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