Good people on the Outdoors Board.

roger that, there are some good folks on this board, in fact it is now my favorite. My brain is rolling with some good ideas. Clay County was my old stomping grounds and I quail hunted about every inch of it, fortunately we had family that owned good chunks of it and it was back in the day when an ol rancher didn't mind you hunting on his place, now they've destroyed all the good habitat and they get a pretty penny for a quail lease.

keep us updated

if I'm free the weekend you take this on, I'll provide a strong back and a weak mind

Yeah, fossil, Henrietta isn't exactly a bustling metropolis. We used to play 'em in football, dear God that was a long boring drive.

Keep us posted.

emkat ... If your grandfather was named all-Southern conference in football in 1912 and he graduated in 1914, I figure he is somewhere in the team photo below.

Every member of that squad exhibits the personal qualities of character and determination that deserve our ever lasting respect. Restoring that Aggie Ring to members of his family would be a noble gesture by latter day Aggies to honor his memory and the example he set that we all strive for today.



Your grandfather's football coach was the great Charley Moran ... "I did not come here to lose!"

[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 9/6/2007 8:23p).]

This is one kick ass thread. I want to help, and I went to The University of Georgia.

Fossil, you are something. I just got off the phone with my Pop to identify his dad in the photo. I stand corrected. I don't have much to go on when it comes to identifying my granddad as he died before I was born. Come to find out my grandfather graduated A&M in 1913 (not '14 as I thought - the class ring 1913) He was All southern guard in 1912. My dad still has his Longhorn which is in excellent condition. My parents live in Wichita Falls and I don't so I don't have access to his stuff. I also know that his name is signed on a football somewhere on campus. If you could produce a 1912 photo - I guarantee he'll be there. Is it okay to give out names on this board?

less then 30 min drive for me, let me know what weekend
(or weekday) and i will lend all i can.

The 1913 model was the only team picture I could find. I will continue my search and let you know if I find something on the 1912 team. Just as a matter of form I recommend names not be given out ... this is the world wide web and some crazy stuff happens in this old world.

if the land owners dont mind you draining it, i think that plus using a sluice box or the screen method would be very doable.

if it is the thick clayey mud i think it will be, the sluice box may not work well if you dont have a good water supply.

using two screens and squeezing the mud to break it down enough to easly wash it away might be an idea, that way you dont have to break it down into small particles.

this is a great thread. hope you find that ring!!!

Outstanding thread!!! Makes me want to go play in the mud, too. How far is it from Waco to Henrietta?

Depending on the route you take, might be anywhere between 5 to 6 hours.

I would bet its closer to 4.

scratch that, google says 3.

[This message has been edited by powerbiscuit (edited 9/7/2007 8:13a).]

Really, cuz it just told me 4 and a half.

That's less than 2 hours from my house. Give us a heads up on when this is going down, and I am there. A co-worker of mine has suggested a 6" diesel driven pump so we wouldn't have to take power to the site. I can get us one in Dallas on the cheap if we go that route.

rather than draining the whole pond why not just drain sections at a time. I'm not sure of the logistics but I picture building a bottomless box, say 4'w x 4'l x 6'd. Make it out of 4 sheets of plywood and just drain that area. It would be pretty labor intensive but at least that way the land owners still have watering for their cattle.

It would have to be a very strong box or it would collapse under the pressure of the water. A piece of large culvert would probably be safer...although just draining the pond would be easier.

This is a great thread. I'm nowhere near that area, but I hope this works out and the ring is found!

Two feet of silt is highly optimistic.

Last year during the drought, I cleaned out several stock tanks. I averaged eight feet of silt in four different tanks. And that was only 20-25 years of runoff.

i just used google satellite to search for "lost aggie ring in tank in Clay County (north Texas) south of Henrietta." and this is what i found! could that be it?




in all seriousness, more power to you.. would be a fantastic find. im looking forward to seeing how this story unfolds. someone needs to take pictures of the process.

emkat

do you live in henrietta now? If you do I bet I know you.

cjo...

Thats gonna be sweet when you find the thing...keep us updated

[This message has been edited by rdclarke (edited 9/7/2007 10:19p).]

anyone have some pictures of what that ring would look like? i remember seeing a chart with all the aggie ring designs, but now i cant find it.

History of the Aggie Ring

quote:

---

Timeline / History

1876 -Texas A&M College opens.

1889 -Oldest known Aggie Ring made this year.

1894 -Edward C. Jonas ’94, captain of C Company, chosen to design a new Aggie Ring (he had designed the Commencement programs 1891-1894).

1894 -The Ring committee awards contract to a Bryan jeweler. The resulting Rings are inspected by Professor P.S. Tilson ’89, who discovered they were weighed with lead.

1899 -R.J. Poulter is chosen as chairman of a committee to select the 1899 class Ring.
-Linz Brothers Jewelry Company of Dallas submits design sketches for the Ring.
-A meeting is held by Poulter’s committee in J.B. Sterns’ room to discuss the designs. During this meeting the suggestion is made to have the classes of ’00, ’01, and ’02 adopt the design to perpetuate the tradition./1899-Linz Brothers quotes a lower price for rings if Junior, Sophomore and Freshman classes would vote to use the same design.
-The classes agree to perpetuate the design.

1900 -The class of ’00 buy their rings from Linz Brothers for $10.50, after testing a ring proved their metallic purity.
-The classes of ’01 and ’02 did not all buy rings from Linz Brothers; they could not hold a monopoly over the manufacture of the Ring.

1912 -The state seal and crossed weapons changes sides.

1926 -The state seal and crossed weapons again change sides.

1930-1935 -Rings made during this period were primarily manufactured by Herff Jones Company.

1933 -Officers of the class of ’31 petitions the A&M faculty to restrict purchase of the Aggie Ring to students who have attained at least the second semester of their Junior year.
-Texas A&M President T.O. Walton appoints an Official Senior Ring Committee to standardize the Ring design, create more control for Ring distribution and manufacture, and eliminate some of the undesirable practices connected with handling class Ring orders. The committee was to consider proposals for rings for the classes ‘35-’39. No stones (diamonds,rubies) were considered. Rings would average 12 pennyweight. Their goal was modernization of the old design while retaining essential features. The words “Texas A&M College – 1876” were added around the crown.

1933 -The Star Engraving Company of Houston is awarded a 5 year contract. Distributors in the Bryan/College Station area that were chosen were John S. Caldwell and Sankey Park.

1934 -Star Engraving files for a patent on the Ring designed by John Boehme.

1935 -The Texas and United States flags were added behind the crossed cannon, rifle and saber. Wording was changed to “A&M College of Texas – 1876” (this design will not change again until 1963).

1935 April -Star Engraving secures a seven year patent of Ring design.
April 23 -Star Engraving transfers rights of patent #95172 to Texas A&M College.

1937 -C.W. Varner is added as a distributor of Rings.

1939 -Registrar’s Office begins distributing rings with the class of ’39, to exercise tighter control.
-Josten Company of Owatonna, Minnesota is awarded a contract to supply rings for the classes ‘40-42.

1942 -Josten Company’s contract is extended to 1948.
-Ring patent is allowed to expire.

1948 -L.G. Balfour Company of Attelboro Massachusetts is awarded a three year contract to supply Rings.

1963 -Legislature changes name of the school to Texas A&M University. The Ring lettering is correspondingly changed.

1963-1966 - These class years have an option of College or University.

1963 -J.B. “Josh” Sterns ‘99 conceives idea of a permanent ring collection.

1967 -All students of this class year and forward are required to have A&M University lettering on their Ring.

1970’s -Rose and White Gold w/ Antique finishes become available to give students options beyond the Yellow Gold W/ Antique.

1972 -Balfour’s lifetime warranty for Rings available.

1998 -Rings are manufactured in a solid one piece design.

1998 -Natural finish becomes available.

---

I think the Ring second from the left above was the style used in 1913. That ring has a state seal on one side as described in the 1899 selection committee report. Someone can verify this by calling the custodian of the Aggie Ring Collection and the Former Students Association.






[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 9/8/2007 9:45a).]

[This message has been edited by fossil_ag (edited 9/8/2007 10:05a).]

was discussing this with my pops, and he suggested a vacum truck. that way you wouldnt damage the ring with a pump and you could suck up the silt and water and then drain through a sieve.

He also suggested filming this venture documentary style for memories and whatnot.

Vacuum trucks is a good suggestion and may have an application here but their usefulness will depend on a site survey giving a complete description of the pond and the surrounding terrain. Vacuum trucks, whether the 40 to 50 barrel bobtails or the 100 barrel transports, work well in small ponds with room to maneuver but would be of limited use except for draining water from a larger containment ... those suction hoses are heavy and hard to maneuver about. Then the question turns to disposal.

It might be helpful at this stage to review how stock ponds were made in those early days.

Excavation equipment did not exist in north and west Texas from the earliest days of settlement and for all practical purposes until after WWII. WWII introduced hydraulic assist for scrapers and excavators which ... which as you can well understand is the key to dirt moving.

Before that, the best equipment available was the Fresno Scraper. That scraper was developed in Fresno, CA in the 1880s. It was the first piece of equipment that made earth moving easy, simple, effective and universally available to all users. Its shape and principle was the forerunner of today's bulldozers, earthmovers and front end loaders.



Now, back to Clay County in the 1890s onward. Dan and Tom Waggoner of Waggoner Ranch fame spent time in Clay County running cattle. They like all cattlemen saw the necessity for harvesting rainwater in catchments for stock water during dry periods.

The procedure in those early days was to dam up a draw or dry wash. Their preferred sites were an old water way that had scoured a wash down to limestone bedrock ... and best of all if it exposed the source of a natural spring.

Before the Fresno Scraper found its way to Henrietta there were horse drawn scrapers but no implement that could move dirt from one location to another. When the Fresno came along farmers and ranchers could select the location on a draw for a water tank, and use the Fresno to shape a reservoir at that location and move the spoil dirt to build a dam and fashion a spillway. Large catchments could be built in this manner and the depth of the water depended on the depth of the original draw and the height of the dam.

The photo below shows Fresnos behind teams of horses or mules at work on Hoover Dam.



One man could handle the team of mules and at the same time operate the Fresno. The Fresno would move 1/3 to 1/2 yard of dirt in a pass.
With no pressure on the handle the Fresno skidded along in a neutral position. By lifting the handle about eight inches a sharpened blade on the front would dig into the soil about two inches and the dirt would accumulate in the shaped body. Releasing the handle would allow the Fresno to return to its skidding position. At the point the operator wanted to make the dump he would again lift the handle a foot or so, the blade would dig into the soil and the Fresno would dump the load ... with the handle going straight up. It would skid along in this position until the operator pulled the tail rope and the Fresno would resume the down skid position.

Later on when tractors became available they worked just as well or better than the teams of mules. Fresnos were used for many years building state highways, county roads and all dirtwork on farms and ranches. During the Depression my dad and other farmers hired out to the county to repair and build roads and borrow ditches ... 25 cents an hour for operator, Fresno and team of mules. As a teen I spent many hours as tail man on a Fresno behind an F-12 Farmall tractor.

So, knowing how that stock tank was built may give a better idea of the topography under the water of that tank. The depth of the silt in some parts will be determined by the depth of the original gully that tank was built around. Also, as a stock tank observer for many years I think it is important to know that grass and sod over the years has encroached on the original perimeter of the tank and in earlier times the waterline could well have been several feet beyond its present location.

A good chance remains that the Ring is under dry land on the edge of the pond. Just a thought.

Buy a high quality metal detector and go scan when the tank dries up during the next drought. Mark your coverage areas as you go so you can weed out the empty spots. You will find it if you have a good detector that filters ouy crap like lead and tin. It will be easier than you think assuming it was not lost in a deep middle somewhere.

I was in the Corps museum over the weekend, and I took a look at their Aggie Ring display ... The 1913-era ring is, indeed, the smaller, flat-top design shown in the photos above. It's a much smaller and more delicate design than the current edition ...

1989, he has the metal detector covered

You guys on this board are great. I emailed the Association and it is the 2nd ring (they sent a pic) I'd attach it but I don't know how. Again, I just spoke with the landowners to discuss the possibility of draining it. The pasture is only used from time to time to hold cattle for short periods of time, (Usually in July) She will get back with me in a week or two as she is caught up in a lot of stuff right now, although it did sound favorable about taking some water out of it to make it more manageable. She wanted to know if you could drain but collect the water for refill purposes? I haven't a clue. The only source of water for this tank has been rain and run-off. I certainly didn't expect this much discussion on this matter, but it's time to make a decision as to move forward with this or not. Therefore I am giving out my e-mail address so that I can rely on someone who might live in the area (Henrietta, Wichita Falls, Bowie, Clay County, etc.)who could go and look at the tank to see if this is all possible. I live in a boarding state and it takes me about 6 hours to get there. I drove by it this spring while turkey hunting and I always look at it knowing that the ring is still there, but I've never really considered detailing a plan to retrieve it. There is obviously some folks on here that do. My email is: chop2467@aol.com. I'm a trusting person and I am fond of my fellow Aggie brethren, so therefore only serious emails only, please. Secondly, with all the suggestions, I'm concerned about cost. I'm not looking for charity, but based on some suggestions, this could get out of hand. I would again like to thank all those who have contributed to this board, it's been fun.

I like the idea of a documentary...maybe you could get someone to pitch in money so they could make one abput Aggie Spirit or something. I realize the chancs are slim but you never do know.

Could you store the water? Yeah, but you run the risk of it getting contaminated. If you're willing to take that risk, there are lots of guys in that area who would be able to store the water in frac tanks. Depending on the size of the pond, though, you'd probably need up to 3 (just guessing), and you'd also want to move quickly as keeping them around isn't exactly cheap. I can't think of any other viable option for storing the water off the top of my head (funny considering I'm taking a break from fluid mechanics homework). Honestly, I don't think storing the water is a viable option, unless you know of a lot of fiberglass tanks that are currently sitting empty.

emkat ... I agree that the first order of business before proceeding is to have someone go out to the stock tank and get some measurements. In your first post you said the stock tank was "about an acre," ... that is a large stock tank.

An acre is 43,560 square feet ... that is roughly the size of a football field. (A football field is 300' X 160' = 48,000 sq ft. An acre is 300' X 145.2' = 43,560 sq ft.)

Some estimate is needed for the average depth of the tank. The depth of water is the biggest handicap for working around the water, in regard to underwater metal detecting and also bottom searching if something metallic registers.

Mention of the water brings up the thoughts of eliminating it as a problem by draining the tank. Estimated tank measurements are necessary to estimate the quantity of water to be moved. One acre-foot of water is 325,851 gallons. If the estimated size of the tank is one acre, and the estimated depth is about 3 feet, you are talking about almost 1,000,000 gallons of water.

Pumping the water out of the tank is feasible with the 6" pump someone offered. One solution is to let it flow uncollected downstream ... another possible solution is to have a bulldozer volunteered to build a temporary dam down stream and harvest as much of the pumpout as possible as stock water pending replenishment of the main tank by rains. Possible? I don't know.

Another thought that might arise is the possibility that if the tank was just pumped out and no water retained, that the main tank could be replenished by hauling in water by vacuum transports.

Vacuum truck transports have a capacity of 100 to 130 barrels of water (4,000 to 5,200 gallons.) Uncontaminated water suitable for stock is probably available at Lake Arrowhead, about 20 miles from the tank. Key Energy has a truck yard at Chico, about 30 miles south of the location. Key normally charges roughly $90/hr per load. Rough estimate is $300 per 4-5,000 gallons of water. To have one acre foot of water hauled in to replenish the tank would cost about $20,000. Anyone have a friend with deep pockets?

My recommendation is that:
#1 Conduct a site survey to get basic measurements of the tank and description of the site.

#2 Conduct a preliminary systematic search with several metal detectors within a 50 foot border around the edge of the tank (just in case a cleanout of the tank when dry in years before 1950 ... a Fresno scraper would have been the implement in use ... shallow spreadout of dredgings.) Also, using an aluminum skiff for flotation, employ the underwater metal detector in a systematic search of the main body of tank. Lessons learned in that first water attempt may be useful if other attempts are considered.

#3 If the decision is to proceed with the search and resources are available, consider draining the lake and conduct a systematic search of the tank bottom.

hth

Fossil, it has amazed me that this tank has managed to hold water as long as it has given the flat topography that it's on. I am really trying to angle the drainage without collection. A couple of years ago during a north Texas drought, the tank nearly dried up, and now it is back up to a desirable level, so I know that it would return if drained. I may be a little heavy on the size of the tank. It may actually be a bit smaller - it is difficult to be completely accurate. I would imagin that we could probably eliminate at least 1/2 the tank from the git go as the deeper water for swimming is always near the horseshoe shaped dam. Both my pop figured that would be the best place to begin.
Fossil, you can email me and I will provide you my number and I will show you the tank as it is viewed by Google Earth. Though the detail on Google Earth is not that great and my be a few years old, it might give you a better idea of what we're talking about.