CanyonAg77 said:

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I wonder if the crash investigators want any of the debris, or if they consider it unnecessary

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Quote:

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Searchers expressed difficulty in seeking the victims and key evidence from the crash. The plane and its cargo were shattered into pieces in the marshy terrain.

Chambers County Sheriff Brian Hawthorne and the National Transportation Safety Board are asking property owners and boaters in the Trinity Bay and Galveston complex to be on the look out for floating wreckage and cargo from the crash of Flight 3591. This wreckage and the cargo, which includes Amazon packages and U.S. mail among other items, is important to the investigation of the crash.


Officials stress that any luggage and personal items that belonged to the crew members are very important to the NTSB. If you spot anything that appears to be related to the flight crews, they are asking you bring it to their attention.

Chambers County has established four Flight 3591 collection sites. Citizens can bring the found wreckage and cargo material to NTSB investigators.

Items can be taken via land to:
Chambers County OEM building at 202 Airport Road in Anahuac
Beach City Volunteer Fire Department at 12717 FM 2354 in Beach City

Boaters can take items via water to:


Job Beason Park 130 W. Bayshore Road, Oak Island,
N 29.655 W -94.691
NRG Spillway dock on the south side N 29.755 W -94.818

If you have any questions regarding Flight 3591 wreckage and cargo collection you may call 409-267-3060 from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. until further notice.

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Source: https://abc13.com/second-black-box-recovered-from-plane-crash-in-trinity-bay/5163154/

I doubt suicide because they were below 10,000 feet which requires a sterile cockpit. That means both pilots are seated and belted and there is no conversation or activity that is not pertinent to the phase of flight. Unless both pilots were suicidal, the suicidal pilot would have to overpower the other pilot to crash the plane. It could be done, but there are probably better opportunities along that flight to crash the plane. The Lion air pilot waited until the other pilot left the cockpit then locked him out while he flew into terrain.

The CVR and FDR should be very helpful.

Hoss said:

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I just don't see this being a suicide. Yeah, it's possible, but unless you're a terrorist why would you wanna take other people with you when you go? Why not just kick back in a chair at home and pop yourself in the head with a pistol? Or jump off a tall building. Or something. Nose diving an airliner with your coworkers onboard doesn't seem like a good way to do it.

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Egyptian Airlines had it happen in a 747. Although the Egyptians still dispute this.

Also, Malaysia Airlines' missing jet was likely a suicide.

There was also a FedEx jet that had an employee (pilot), catch a ride on one of their jets and attack the pilots in what was going to be a suicide crash into FedEx HQ.

I'm sitting here tonight watching an episode of Air Disasters on Smithsonian Channel. Just thinking that this will also be an episode in a few years.

Disgruntled employee shoots the 2 colleagues. Takes control of the plane and decides to nose dive.

That's my hypothesis

Mr. McGibblets said:

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Disgruntled employee shoots the 2 colleagues. Takes control of the plane and decides to nose dive.

That's my hypothesis

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That's basically what happened on the Fedex flight that has been mentioned.

Pretty sure he took a hammer to their heads from behind. If he had have shot them, they prob wouldn't have been able to subdue him and land the plane safely.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

Well ain't I smart! Didn't even read the whole thread.

STX Ag said:

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Pretty sure he took a hammer to their heads from behind. If he had have shot them, they prob wouldn't have been able to subdue him and land the plane safely.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705

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True

I'm going with suicide as well.

prior to seeing (hearing) any cvr or fdr data, this is my guess as well

Just a bump so I can find it easier.

Mr. McGibblets said:

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Disgruntled employee shoots the 2 colleagues. Takes control of the plane and decides to nose dive.

That's my hypothesis

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure cargo pilots go through pretty much the same security as you see on the passenger side of the industry. Because if something could come into the secure area on the cargo side of the airport it could be moved to the passenger world fairly easily.

A lot of those changes started following this crash. Ramp worker was fired for petty theft (also suspected of other more serious charges). He used his credentials to get a weapon past security and board a flight that he knew his (former) boss would be on. Shot and killed his boss and four others including the pilots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771

From what I understand there are different FAR rules and TSA rules for cargo vs passenger flights.

I'm sure some pilot will be along directly to tear my ass for that. I just know we operate under different rules whether we have a patient on board or not.

aggiepublius said:

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TexDill15 said:

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aggiepublius said:

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cbr said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Obviously, none of the nukes had all of their failsafes fail. Because there has not been an accidental nuclear detonation

The old weapons, several accidents did set off the conventional explosives, but not in a way that would go nuclear. Fire would not have done it either. Newer weapons use insensitive high explosives.

The Arkansas missile explosion was due to a dropped wrench hitting a liquid fuel tank and boom. The warhead is often referred to as "The Arkansas Traveler".

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In several cases all of the designed failsafes failed, yet the fire or drop or chemical explosion failed to create the conditions for an atomic explosion. I am no expert, but iirc most all american nukes after fat man require the uranium bullet to fire into the core at tremendous velocity and precision, far beyond normal kinetic or unintended chemical impacts. In fact most kinetic or chemical events cant even drive the bullet in at all.

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(cbr = "chemical, biological, radiological"?)

What you have there is partially correct. Only Little Boy used the uranium "gun design" which was so simple in design and engineering, they didn't even test it before it was dropped on Hiroshima. Trinity and Fat Man and the later designs were the more complicated implosion devices that require great precision.

Most of the later designs are implosion devices that crush a sphere of fissile material into a core that requires extreme precision in the chemical explosives that are shaped to crush the sphere to get ensure criticality. The timing and precision of was new that units of time were created to measure it, including the "shake" that was named after "two shakes of a lambs tail. The precision was such the electrical switches that were used to initiate the chemical explosion were so specialized they were tracked and were a important tip off someone new was trying to join the nuclear club.

The next big jump was with thermonuclear or H-Bombs, which use a fission device initiator - a simple nuclear bomb - to start a fusion reaction among Hydrogen isotopes* that releases magnitudes greater of energy. These are even higher precision in timing.

There are then even more exotic forms - Neutron bombs (which release more energetic particles that damage biological material but leave the city behind), Jacketed bombs - using elements like Cobalt that salt the earth and leaved the ground poisoned for much longer periods. Some of these are/were Fission-Fusion-Fission devices that have massive yields in the 100Mt theoretical range.

I believe the US main warhead in inventory is a "dial-a-yield" that allows the warhead to be varied based on target. And that is much more complicated in engineering and still largely classified as far as I know.

*TLDR - Nukes are complicated. And the OB has the key component of an H-bomb in their gun safes and holsters, Tritium.

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How the hell you know so much about bombs??

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Because I am on the OB and



But it has been an area of research for me since before the fall of the CCCP.

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I knew the "we know stuff" would be the OB answer.. haha.

But your knowledge is really cool and I appreciate you sharing with others.

Quote:

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"Crew communications consistent with a loss control of the aircraft began approximately 18 seconds prior to the end of the recording"

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Have heard from folks who listen to CVRs, the last words are often "Oh s**t."

Probably the first words when something goes wrong, too.

18 seconds. Goodness.

That was awfully vague. Seems weird that audio is jot discernable too. Youd think that the voice recorder would be tuned to get everything clearly. Unless some real noisy **** was going on.

Mr. McGibblets said:

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Disgruntled employee shoots the 2 colleagues. Takes control of the plane and decides to nose dive.

That's my hypothesis

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They found one body already. Did it have a bullet hole or not? Gun powder residue?

They have found remains of at least two people I believe if not all three.

cbr said:

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That was awfully vague. Seems weird that audio is jot discernable too. Youd think that the voice recorder would be tuned to get everything clearly. Unless some real noisy **** was going on.

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At least this one was a solid state recorder as opposed to the old tape recorders. They've located them before and found the tape broken or recorded over so many times it was completely indecipherable. I recall seeing one where the erasing head failed and it was 100's of flights just completely written on top of one another. Because events are so rare, I bet there isn't much push to upgrade as new/better units come to the market.

I would imagine as new planes are built they get newer and better voice recorders. Hard for me to believe they would go back and change them out in older aircraft. This is just speculation.