No muzzy deer tag for me. Gotta feed the Muley obsession. Arizona otc archery or Meredith as a last resort.

I drew a muzzle loader deer tag as well! Yippee!!! I'll have an elk & deer tag in my pocket during muz season!

I've never taken a mule deer buck, so I'm going to focus on that. Killed a doe with my bow and a nice bull with my muzzle loader last year, so hoping for a nice muley this year.

That is assuming we don't burn up before then...

How close is that area to Stage 3? That's total closure, right?

Fire along the Durango/Silverton railroad

LEJ said:

---

How close is that area to Stage 3? That's total closure, right?

---

I have heard that stage 3 is immenet. We had a town meeting about it the other day. Since then a few small fires have popped up locally, my guess is that we are almost certainly headed for Stage 3 restrictions. Just my hunch

Agreed. But what does that mean as far as access to NF and Wilderness in that area?

LEJ said:

---

Agreed. But what does that mean as far as access to NF and Wilderness in that area?

---

I'm not entirely sure what they will and won't do. As far as I understand, Stage 3 is basically saying that even with fire prevention measures there is too much risk, so we have to just keep everyone out. I believe they just close areas that are prone to fires- but I don't know who draws those lines or how.

Ugh... thanks.

FYI- for anyone planning on hunting southern CO this year- I'm hearing they are likely to enact Stage 3 Fire Restrictions for the San Juan National Forrest on Tuesday. This means a total closure of the Forrest and Wilderness areas to all public use.

While I wouldn't expect this to still be the case come hunting season, the closure will be indefinit until we receive adequate moisture. I would keep a close watch on the situation this summer. I'm not sure what impact this would have on deer/elk. We need water BAD. They had a skinny year last year as far as food.

I am set to hunt 2b in NM. Seems it's been just as dry. Hopefully a few timely rains come through this summer.

Do they ever shut down BLM land in a similar fashion to the national forests?

Bought a deer point for Arizona yesterday. I've pretty much talked myself into going to Arizona on an OTC Archery Deer tag in January. I really wanna head into the Mazatzal Wilderness.

Yessss.

I hope to be there in January again as well.

https://valkyriearchery.com

Anyone have experience with the Valkyrie system? Seems right up Shayne's alley,

I've seent em and thought about it, but I'm not sold on the micro diameters yet.

I might be on the two blade train though. I really liked the cutthroats I was shootin w my recurve last year, and am going to order a few to play w on my compound.

Quote:

---

but I'm not sold on the micro diameters yet.

---

What don't you like about them?

I'm not sold on them either (yet) but I'm kinda sold on some concepts (approaching or exceeding 20% FOC / better penetration / accuracy / better in wind) and the micros seem to be the best avenue to get you there.

This Valkyrie system itself is pretty interesting. I've been listening and re-listening to a podcast the owner/operator did with Gritty Bowmen. I'm sipping a little koolaid.

Interested to hear your (or anyone for that matter) thoughts on this as well. I shoot micros but I'm a semi beginner and they're all I've ever shot so I don't know any better.

I've been tinkering with different shafts, broad head setups and advice/info (mainly from archery hunter oriented podcasts and pro shop archery techs) right now.

In sifting through the info and opinions... it's apparent to me that there are 2 distinct camps on micro-diameter shafts and the whole philosophy of FOC (Front of Center).

- New school guys are all about the micro and getting to the magical 20% FOC. The Valkyrie System guys suggest that 20% FOC is the minimum they consider relevant in making a real performance difference over a more conservative, traditional configuration. Those guys are actually running setups at over 30% FOC. Listen to their podcast on Gritty Bowmen. Fascinating stuff.

- Old school guys - bah humbug. They hate the micros, but recognize that people are having great success with them. One archery pro shop guy told me this, almost verbatim. He also thought I was making a mistake in wanting to shoot 125gr broad heads, because "they're harder to find than 100gr heads". After looking at the Valkyrie System, I'm now entertaining the idea of trying 175gr broad heads.

(My focus with this setup is on Elk).

I've been hunting with micro diameter arrows for several years. I really like them and (anecdotally) think they have superior penetration. They group tight as well. When they first came out it was harder to find tips, inserts and broadheads which was annoying but now they are readily available. For my set up with heavy micro diameter arrows and 80 pound limbs I have had complete pass throughs on all (n=2) of my elk since making the switch.

agingcowboy said:

---

I've been hunting with micro diameter arrows for several years. I really like them and (anecdotally) think they have superior penetration. They group tight as well. When they first came out it was harder to find tips, inserts and broadheads which was annoying but now they are readily available. For my set up with heavy micro diameter arrows and 80 pound limbs I have had complete pass throughs on all (n=2) of my elk since making the switch.

---

How heavy an arrow and what brand/weight heads?

I shoot the Easton Deep6 FMJ Injexion (330). I think they are right about 11 GPI. 30.5" arrow, 125 gr QAD Exodus fixed 3 blade broadhead, with insert, nock and vanes puts me just under 500 gr total weight.

What's your FOC?

Didn't realize so many people were shooting >100g broadheads.

I think the traditional FOC recommendation is between 7-15%.

I am shooting black eagle rampage arrows at a total of 529 grains, 9% FOC and 290 FPS out of my defiant turbo.

Running the math on jumping to a 200 grain broadhead. That would push me up to 629 grains, 15% FOC, and roughly 255 FPS.

Don't think I will mess with my setup for this September, but may look into it for next year.

In all reality I would need to go to a lighter shaft to get to the 20% FOC without knocking my FPS down too much.

11%-15% FOC is what the same bah humbug pro shop guy told me (not an elk hunter). The shop guy in Colorado (Elk hunter) where I bought my Elite from recommended 19-20% and the Victory VAP micros (.166).

The Valkyrie System guys (Elk hunters) speak favorably of the Victory Shafts, even though they have their own, and they are extreme FOC guys... 20%+. Again, their podcast on Gritty Bowmen is a really good listen and they discuss it all.

My biggest challenge in archery is a short draw length. I'm looking for an edge.

I just haven't got the ones I have to tune up the way I like. Theoretically I know they'll work better fo penetration. I imagine I'll get them to where I like them.

My goal is always as 260-270fps as heavy as I can go up front. I don't sweat no calculations.

Quote:

---

I don't sweat no calculations.

---

People with 32" draws at 80# don't have to.

I have 30" draw length and 80 lb limbs...I've never done this calculation. Until today. I came up with 12.5% using the hunting arrow set up described above.

Naw I'm just regular old 28.5 @ 70. I've been tempted to buy 80 lb limbs a bunch. But I'm afraid I won't be able to sprint to the top, puke, and still be able to get it back at showtime.

Lots of potential scenarios have been playing out in my mind lately with regard to Colorado hunting this year.

I've read that other areas of Colo are closer to stage 3 and closing down their respective NF.

Worst case hunting scenario... Monsoon season never comes and most or All NF lands are shut down. Do the LE tags get refunded? How bout the otc tags?
Can an LE tag holder who is shut out of a unit bc of closure swap for an otc tag? How crowded will the otc units be if this is allowed? If a few otc areas did remain open, I could only imagine the cluster that would ensue and the impact of extreme hunting pressure on those areas.

Hopeful scenario... monsoon season comes and everything is open for hunting. A big issue which still remains is that the clock is ticking on trail maintenance, esp in wilderness areas. If something doesn't happen soon to change the course, it's very possible that a good number of trails throughout the state will be long jammed with deadfall at the beginning of archery season or later.

Getting through on foot might be doable but getting pack horses 8 miles back to recover an elk prob won't be feasible.

Even pack trips for elk rifle 1 and 2 are currently jeopardized. I kinda doubt that most packers and or drop camp outfitters are going to be willing to even attempt to navigate uncleared trails.

The financial hit to Colorado could be devastating, which could turn into a boom/burden for other states as well.

I heard today that they are considering reopening the San Juan National Forrest! Looks like June 21 for a target to drop the Stage 3 closure- which would allow all campgrounds, areas, and trails to reopen (with Stage 2 restrictions), and most importantly businesses with permits and contracts to finally resume work!

This is great news, and I hope it comes to fruition. Pray for ankrber good rain soon, so we can really do this!

June 21... like tomorrow? Or did you mean July 21?

LEJ said:

---

June 21... like tomorrow? Or did you mean July 21?

---

Tomorrow.

Official announcement came down- gates will be opened tomorrow. Stage 2 Fire Restrictions will be in effect.

That's a good start. Hope it will last.

Just neede a little rain Noe.

On the road all this week wishing I was headed to the mountains.

Driving through the flint hills today