I let a few more guess than I'll post his score later. I just pulled him off the wall and put the tape to him again to double check.

Ttt for score.

Yup. I'm ready for Colt to tell us that buck is 160".

At least. It is a really good buck especially for a kid but I'll be shocked if we get a realistic score. At least based on past experience.

Come on now. Why would I lie? It scores 150 1/8. Anyway, 02 you were real close. I don't know what past experience where I feel like I was wrong. But master you Do know everything. The score doesn't really matter on his deer, it was a great buck for him to take, and one heck of a memory.

[This message has been edited by Colt98 (edited 3/13/2012 10:49p).]

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Anyway, 02 you were real close.

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Close? I said 149-151". It was 150 1/8". That ain't close. That's on the money!




[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 3/14/2012 12:09a).]

So txaggie02 was almost exactly right on a buck you did have scored, but there's no way he was even close about the drop tine buck? Ok, got it...

Ageg. Im not going to get into the drop tine buck again. If anything this 10 point helps my case. There is no doubt txag02 know how to score deer.

Umm being between 1 and 4 " off ain't exactly shabby. And yes that is a great buck for anyone to shoot let alone an 8 year old.

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If anything this 10 point helps my case.

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Can you elaborate on this more? I'm not sure I am following where you are going. How does somebody scoring this buck correctly help your cause on the droptine buck that scores in the low 150s?

Ok. I guess we can rehash it. Lets say that the two bucks have the same mass measurements(although the dt buck carries his mass out a little better, but not much).

Dt buck G1's + 1-2" more(would be close if not for broken tine.)
dt buck G2's + 5-6" more
dt buck G3's + 1-2" more
dt buck G4's + 5-6" more

dt beams + 3-4" more
dt spread + 4-5" more
TOTAL +19-25" more

So if you add the differences together on the low end you get close to what we originally were debating about. Look I agree at first glance you wouldn't think the buck is close to 170 mainly do to tine length, so please tell me where the math is off. This isn't some continual pissing match. Really its just a stunt to keep this tread alive, and let MA show his greatness to the Texags outdoor board.

I randomly sent the drop tine pic from the OP to my brother (who hunts a management area outside of Beeville). His response: about 145-155.

lol. I guess it would score that if the buck weighed 120lbs and was a hill country deer. The buck was easily over 200lbs.

The buck's weight doesn't matter. All the body does is confirm if he is mature or not so that you have a baseline to use for measurements. You don't add inches onto his score because he weighs 80 lbs more. You take measurement's based off the deer's head, eyes, and ears. For example, a mature buck in South Texas will be 16" from ear tip to ear tip. That's 6" for the head and 5" for each ear. However, if he isn't mature, then 16" is going to be too much. A 2 1/2" year old buck will probably only be close to 12-13" from ear tip to ear tip.

From your above post, there are several obvious mis-calculations right off the bat between your son's buck and the DT buck.

1. You are over-estimating the DT buck's spread. You have to consider that his right ear is angled forward and left ear is angled back. Hence, you cannot use his ear tips as a measuring tool. The DT buck is close to 20-21" on spread. That's 2-2.5" outside of each ear tip once straightened out. It is not anywhere near 23-25".

2. Mass is very close to being the same. You are over-estimating the mass on the DT buck. Both bucks have nice mass, but nothing exceptional.

3. The G3's are the same on both bucks. Heck, if anything, the DT buck is losing ground because his left G3 is 1-1.5" shorter than his right G3. G3s are identical on your son's buck.

4. There is only about 2.5- 3" difference between the G4s on those two bucks. Understand that by G4s on the DT buck, I am talking about his right G4 and drop tine (he obviously doesn't have a true G4 on his left). You have a 5" DT and 5" G4 on the DT buck. You have a 4" left G4 and 3.5" right G4 on your son's buck.

5. Even though you son's buck probably isn't quite as wide, his beams wrap around more in the front. That's gonna balance out the overall measurement. You are giving too much credit to the DT buck.

I posted the below photos earlier in this thread as a comparison, but didn't get much response. These two bucks are the closest comparison on this thread in terms of spread, mass, drop tine, and most tine lengths. If you deduct the additional G4 from the top photo and knock off 1" per brow tine, then you have two bucks are within a couple inches of each other. I'd like to get your comments on where you think the DT buck adds on 15-20" in regards to the top buck. It's just not there.




[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 3/14/2012 11:50a).]

Sooo, which is it?

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The rack is deceiving b/c the deer looks like a 135lb deer in all reality that buck weight about 175lbs.

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The pic makes him look like a litte 125 pound deer, where he is probably pushing 170 in the first pic.

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The buck was easily over 200lbs

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I see we are back on the 209 buck and several of us have proven we can get very close on score from this last known buck you posted.

I completely agree with txaggie02 on this and what he has posted. I really feel like you are giving the DT buck way to much credit on mass. Also you keep doubling one side to get his total score which in this case just doesn't work. The left side is clearly weaker than his right and therefore must be taken into consideration.

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lol. I guess it would score that if the buck weighed 120lbs and was a hill country deer. The buck was easily over 200lbs.

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A geography lesson also wouldn't be a bad idea as Beeville is a long ways from the hillcountry. The deer are also quite a bit bigger than the hillcountry deer as well.

I Texags

I don't think we have ever had a 3+ year old thread get going in a full blown argument again. Let's go.

Not in the first time. Not missing the second round.

No arguement. Just a little teaching and help. To me, scoring and ageing bucks is fun whether I am looking at them in the field or in some photos. I age and score almost every single buck that walks out while I am hunting. The more you do it, the better and quicker you can get. It takes alot of practice in the field, looking at comparison photos, and help from other people who have been doing it for many years. When I first started deer hunting, I couldn't tell a 2 1/2 year old buck from a 5 1/2 year old buck. It also took me 3-4 minutes to add up all the measurements. Now, it takes about 10 seconds.

I think I have said this before, but the method I use is pretty simple. In South Texas, for the mass, width, and main beams, start off at 100". If the buck is good in all these categories, then keep it at 100". If not, then just knock him down to 90-95" accordingly. Don't waste time trying to add each mass measurement and all that mess. Most big bucks aren't going to give you 3-4 minutes to add everything up. Then, add up the tines real quick and add it to your 100" and you are done. Simple as that.

[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 3/14/2012 1:50p).]

I will officially name 02 the winner in this argument.

How wide do you think my sons 10 pt is?

The G1's on dt are approx 9" total, the 10 has around 8". Pretty close there.

For you to say that there isn't any difference in the G2's you must not be looking at the pics very good. The right g2 on dt goes backwards a bit. If you give is 7 in which it is close to and 8 in on the right +15". On my sons buck his 5+ and 6+=11 and change. for a 4" difference.

The g3's are close so I will let you have that they are similar. Though over all I think the dt buck has about +1-2" more.

The G4's/DT on the dt. Your only giving the dt 5". Its closer to 7 in, and the other side is closer to 6. My sons deer are both a little over 4. That is a 4" diff.

Your right about the mass it is close but the dt buck's last two masses on each side are little more, but I'll give you a wash.

The beam length and spread are where we differ. My sons buck is just under 21 4/8. Dt is every bit 3-4" wider. My sons beams are both right around 25 4/8". Dt's are at least +1 bigger on each side. I've got 2 mule deer on the wall that have 25 in spreads and the dt buck was every bit as wide. That pic of the gaylor guy's buck would fit inside the dt rack. I know that doesn't add much, but you keep comparing it to his and it is smaller.

That right there is 15" minimum, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on mass, G1's, and G3's.

I will conceded that this buck could be a mid 160's buck, but he is no where near low 150's. I've stated that if I saw that picture for the first time I would think he was a 160 in buck. But i didn't see just a picture, I had the buck damn near walk on top of me, and can confirm that he is larger than the picture shows.

But instead of agreeing that pics don't always give the full pics and taking my word. Ya'll did what we do best on here and dog piled on and created one of the greatest threads in texags history. Who's to say I haven't egged some of you on a little to show you true "know it all"personalities(MA - hence the 30K post).

For those that weren't on the original thread you dont deserve to chime in on this, unless of coarse you are on my side.

Oh and HC, you are totally right about doubling his score on both sides. He probably is 3-4" less on right then left. The fact of the matter is from day one the scores have been fairly general from my stand point. so the buck only scores 164 7/8. Big deal, I'm not going to be butt hurt over hit. To be honest I never really cared one way or another, I just like provoking discussion. Oh and the fact that I had this deer standing on top of me and saw him first hand. This is no where near the largest buck I've come into contact with, its funny how big of a fuss it made though.

[This message has been edited by Colt98 (edited 3/14/2012 3:46p).]

[This message has been edited by Colt98 (edited 3/14/2012 3:48p).]

The great thing here is that this buck will never be harvested. He has probably gone the way of the coyotes long ago. So we will never get a chance to know. I think my sons deer looks like he has some of the same genes and was taken with in a mile or so of where we always saw the DT. That deer would have been 10-11 this year.

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How wide do you think my sons 10 pt is?

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I'd say just under 21 4/8. Just kidding. You told me in your previous post. I think I had your son's buck around 20" or so. It was pretty much a wild guess because it's not a good angle to be able to tell. Again, on a good framed deer, I usually just give them 100" for spread, beams, and mass. You will nearly always come within 1-2" in the end.

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The G1's on dt are approx 9" total

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Negative. You MIGHT get 3.5 or 4" out of his left and 3" out of his right. 7" total max for brows. Not an 1/8" more.

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The beam length and spread are where we differ. My sons buck is just under 21 4/8. Dt is every bit 3-4" wider.

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No way. That would put the DT buck as being 4 to 4.5" outside each ear tip. Heck, his right ear might be 4" inside his beam in the photo and it isn't even laying out flat. By the time you lay that ear out, it's going to be out to G3 which is 2.5" max from his beam. 24-25" is not gonna happen so take 3" off your total score.

Here is how the DT buck will score. DISCLAIMER.....THIS IS USING VERY GENEROUS MEASUREMENTS.

Width: 22" (generous.....closer to 21" )
Right Beam: 25" (generous....closer to 24" )
Left Beam: 25" (generous.....closer to 24" )
Mass Total: 34" (generous....closer to 32" )

Right G1: 3"
Right G2: 7" (generous)
Right G3: 8" (generous)
Right G4: 5"
Total.........23"

Left G1: 4" (generous.....closer to 3.5" )
Left G2: 10" (generous.....closer to 9" )
Left G3: 10" (generous.....closer to 9" )
Left DT: 6"
Total.........29"

Max possible score......159"

I still firmly believe he is closer to 152-154" since I rounded alot of the above measurements up to not deal with the 1/8" stuff. He just doesn't have the tine length to get him any higher.

[This message has been edited by txaggie02 (edited 3/14/2012 5:30p).]

Basically under master Aggie's stand point your argument doesn't hold any water due to he fact that you are rounding your numbers. You obviously don't know what you are doing, and are am an armature.

I really could have cared less to rehash this. I know what I saw and what I have killed and what I see every time I go to th stand and that buck is over 22" wide. Oh well, the tread grew a few more pages.

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I let a few more guess than I'll post his score later. I just pulled him off the wall and put the tape to him again to double check.

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From that first pic my guess is 147 .. He's thin and lopsided just like your **** .. Anything over 160 is total horse****

17,005 views... WOW.

Lots of people have never seen a 209" buck.

Here colt see how you score this deer.

Mid 140's

[This message has been edited by Colt98 (edited 3/15/2012 8:30p).]

146 7/8. Decent guess. Age?

4 yrs

If he was in south tx I'd probably say 3, but he looks very developed for a 3 yr anywhere else in TX

I'll give colt a few to guess then I'll say.